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Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - PojoaquePosse - 07-21-2020 09:53 AM
Interesting read. Take a look.
https://bustingbrackets.com/2020/07/16/wac-basketball-top-10-head-coaches-of-the-century-2000-20/amp/1/
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - NMSUPistolPete - 07-21-2020 12:42 PM
Menzies was an excellent recruiter but only a solid courtside coach. He did most of his game preparation prior to the Aggie games. However, he lacked the ability to make major adjustments during the game; when his initial pre-game plan was not working. So, sometimes when watching Aggie games, it was was like watching Menzies pounding a square peg in a round hole. The games were ugly to watch and if the Aggies managed to win, it was because Menzies had superior talent; not because his team out-executed the other. Under Menzies, NMSU was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the rest of the WAC.
Under Chris Jans, the Aggie teams not a big as they were under Menzies. But Jans' teams are just as strong and athletic. But they are also quicker and more skilled than the Menzies teams. And, they are more disciplined; surgically executing Jans' game plan. And, Jans has the ability to make in-game adjustments when he sees a vulnerability to exploit in the other team. Since NMSU joined the WAC, Jans is by far the best Aggie coach to prowl courtside. As for the best coach in the WAC since 2000? I think there is a legit argument for Nevada's Mark Fox being the best; with Jans being on his heals ready to overtake him. Gillispie also now has the opportunity to further add to his WAC legacy. I would probably list the top four WAC coaches since 2000 in this order...
1. Mark Fox
2. Chris Jans
3. Marvin Menzies
4. Stew Morrill
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - Trod0 - 07-21-2020 12:47 PM
Lol I knew Menzies was going to be on that list. As I kept scrolling his name wasn’t popping up and I kept thinking to myself this is to high for him. And yup he lands the #1 spot, with his best signature win against unm?
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - PojoaquePosse - 07-21-2020 12:51 PM
(07-21-2020 12:47 PM)Trod0 Wrote: Lol I knew Menzies was going to be on that list. As I kept scrolling his name wasn’t popping up and I kept thinking to myself this is to high for him. And yup he lands the #1 spot, with his best signature win against unm?
Ha! I did the same thing. Once I got to the top 5, I kept thinking "Menzies has to be on here, but how could he be this high?". Number 1 is waaaaaaaaaay too high for this list.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - PojoaquePosse - 07-21-2020 12:52 PM
(07-21-2020 12:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Menzies was an excellent recruiter but only a solid courtside coach. He did most of his game preparation prior to the Aggie games. However, he lacked the ability to make major adjustments during the game; when his initial pre-game plan was not working. So, sometimes when watching Aggie games, it was was like watching Menzies pounding a square peg in a round hole. The games were ugly to watch and if the Aggies managed to win, it was because Menzies had superior talent; not because his team out-executed the other. Under Menzies, NMSU was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the rest of the WAC.
Under Chris Jans, the Aggie teams not a big as they were under Menzies. But Jans' teams are just as strong and athletic. But they are also quicker and more skilled than the Menzies teams. And, they are more disciplined; surgically executing Jans' game plan. And, Jans has the ability to make in-game adjustments when he sees a vulnerability to exploit in the other team. Since NMSU joined the WAC, Jans is by far the best Aggie coach to prowl courtside. As for the best coach in the WAC since 2000? I think there is a legit argument for Nevada's Mark Fox being the best; with Jans being on his heals ready to overtake him. Gillispie also now has the opportunity to further add to his WAC legacy. I would probably list the top four WAC coaches since 2000 in this order...
1. Mark Fox
2. Chris Jans
3. Marvin Menzies
4. Stew Morrill
Stew Morrill is 10 times the coach that Menzies is/was. Morrill has to be top 1-3 on this list. And I don't think Menzies is in the top 5.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - Trod0 - 07-21-2020 01:12 PM
(07-21-2020 12:52 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:(07-21-2020 12:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Menzies was an excellent recruiter but only a solid courtside coach. He did most of his game preparation prior to the Aggie games. However, he lacked the ability to make major adjustments during the game; when his initial pre-game plan was not working. So, sometimes when watching Aggie games, it was was like watching Menzies pounding a square peg in a round hole. The games were ugly to watch and if the Aggies managed to win, it was because Menzies had superior talent; not because his team out-executed the other. Under Menzies, NMSU was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the rest of the WAC.
Under Chris Jans, the Aggie teams not a big as they were under Menzies. But Jans' teams are just as strong and athletic. But they are also quicker and more skilled than the Menzies teams. And, they are more disciplined; surgically executing Jans' game plan. And, Jans has the ability to make in-game adjustments when he sees a vulnerability to exploit in the other team. Since NMSU joined the WAC, Jans is by far the best Aggie coach to prowl courtside. As for the best coach in the WAC since 2000? I think there is a legit argument for Nevada's Mark Fox being the best; with Jans being on his heals ready to overtake him. Gillispie also now has the opportunity to further add to his WAC legacy. I would probably list the top four WAC coaches since 2000 in this order...
1. Mark Fox
2. Chris Jans
3. Marvin Menzies
4. Stew Morrill
Stew Morrill is 10 times the coach that Menzies is/was. Morrill has to be top 1-3 on this list. And I don't think Menzies is in the top 5.
Agree, Morrill was a very good coach and is top 3. I could see Menzies around 8.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - NMSUPistolPete - 07-21-2020 01:43 PM
(07-21-2020 12:52 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:(07-21-2020 12:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Menzies was an excellent recruiter but only a solid courtside coach. He did most of his game preparation prior to the Aggie games. However, he lacked the ability to make major adjustments during the game; when his initial pre-game plan was not working. So, sometimes when watching Aggie games, it was was like watching Menzies pounding a square peg in a round hole. The games were ugly to watch and if the Aggies managed to win, it was because Menzies had superior talent; not because his team out-executed the other. Under Menzies, NMSU was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the rest of the WAC.
Under Chris Jans, the Aggie teams not a big as they were under Menzies. But Jans' teams are just as strong and athletic. But they are also quicker and more skilled than the Menzies teams. And, they are more disciplined; surgically executing Jans' game plan. And, Jans has the ability to make in-game adjustments when he sees a vulnerability to exploit in the other team. Since NMSU joined the WAC, Jans is by far the best Aggie coach to prowl courtside. As for the best coach in the WAC since 2000? I think there is a legit argument for Nevada's Mark Fox being the best; with Jans being on his heals ready to overtake him. Gillispie also now has the opportunity to further add to his WAC legacy. I would probably list the top four WAC coaches since 2000 in this order...
1. Mark Fox
2. Chris Jans
3. Marvin Menzies
4. Stew Morrill
Stew Morrill is 10 times the coach that Menzies is/was. Morrill has to be top 1-3 on this list. And I don't think Menzies is in the top 5.
As a courtside coach (X'&O's), Morrill was a better coach than Menzies. But Menzies was a far better recruiter. Head-to-head Morrill led the series 8-6 over Menzies. But Menzies held his own considering the disparity in head coaching experience. Morrill garnered 4 of his 8 wins against Menzies in Menzies first two years at NMSU. During Morrill's time in the WAC, he led Utah State to the NCAA tournament 4 time in 8 years; never finishing lower the 4th in the WAC. Menzies led NMSU to the NCAA tournament 5 times in 9 years never finishing lower than 3rd in the WAC. Morrill won the WAC tournament twice. NMSU won it 5 times under Menzies. Overall, Morrill had a better coaching career than Menzies, but Menzies was more relevant in the WAC. If we are debating the best coach to coach in the WAC since 2000, then hands down it would be Jerry Tarkanian; base off his total body of work. But if we are talking impact while in the WAC, Menzies is right up near the top. I only put Jans ahead of Menzies because Jans hasn't faltered. Three WAC regular season championships, likely three WAC tournament championships (if not for COVID19), and three WAC Coach of the Year awards. Other than winning a game in the NCAA tournament, no one can ask anymore Jans. And, the only reason I put Mark Fox at the top is because of the level of talent Fox coached while at Nevada; sending quite a few players to the NBA (Kevinn Pinkney, Nick Fazekas, Ramon Sessions, Javale MaGee, Armon Johnson, and Luke Babbitt) in just five years in the WAC.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - Trod0 - 07-21-2020 03:50 PM
Someone’s happy about that list.
https://twitter.com/MarvinMenzies/status/1285414600029036544?s=20
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - IWokeUpLikeThis - 07-21-2020 04:35 PM
Some mid-major will get themselves a steal hiring Marvin Menzies.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - NMSUPistolPete - 07-21-2020 04:59 PM
Menzies just needs to wait out this basketball season while COVID19 hopefully passes. Then get back into coaching at another mid-major; somewhere where he can win. Not a place like CSUN where Reggie Theus' coaching career came to a screeching halt. He should look for a job in the WCC. Menzies has a good 8-10 years left to still be a viable head coach.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - Trod0 - 07-21-2020 06:19 PM
(07-21-2020 04:59 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Menzies just needs to wait out this basketball season while COVID19 hopefully passes. Then get back into coaching at another mid-major; somewhere where he can win. Not a place like CSUN where Reggie Theus' coaching career came to a screeching halt. He should look for a job in the WCC. Menzies has a good 8-10 years left to still be a viable head coach.
This exactly, he needs to go to a place where he can win. He isn’t a guy you hire to turn a program around or even build a program around. He is a guy you consider hiring when you head coach leaves for bigger things and you want to somewhat maintain his success. If Menzies replaces a coach that got fired he won’t succeed. If he replaces a coach that got hired at something better, then he has a chance to stay at that school and retire.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - CrimsonPhantom - 07-21-2020 07:05 PM
(07-21-2020 01:12 PM)Trod0 Wrote:(07-21-2020 12:52 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:(07-21-2020 12:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Menzies was an excellent recruiter but only a solid courtside coach. He did most of his game preparation prior to the Aggie games. However, he lacked the ability to make major adjustments during the game; when his initial pre-game plan was not working. So, sometimes when watching Aggie games, it was was like watching Menzies pounding a square peg in a round hole. The games were ugly to watch and if the Aggies managed to win, it was because Menzies had superior talent; not because his team out-executed the other. Under Menzies, NMSU was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the rest of the WAC.
Under Chris Jans, the Aggie teams not a big as they were under Menzies. But Jans' teams are just as strong and athletic. But they are also quicker and more skilled than the Menzies teams. And, they are more disciplined; surgically executing Jans' game plan. And, Jans has the ability to make in-game adjustments when he sees a vulnerability to exploit in the other team. Since NMSU joined the WAC, Jans is by far the best Aggie coach to prowl courtside. As for the best coach in the WAC since 2000? I think there is a legit argument for Nevada's Mark Fox being the best; with Jans being on his heals ready to overtake him. Gillispie also now has the opportunity to further add to his WAC legacy. I would probably list the top four WAC coaches since 2000 in this order...
1. Mark Fox
2. Chris Jans
3. Marvin Menzies
4. Stew Morrill
Stew Morrill is 10 times the coach that Menzies is/was. Morrill has to be top 1-3 on this list. And I don't think Menzies is in the top 5.
Agree, Morrill was a very good coach and is top 3. I could see Menzies around 8.
Good coach.
Borrowing a quote from Harry Doyle: He's still a dick.
RE: Top 10 WAC coaches of the century - NMSUPistolPete - 07-21-2020 07:54 PM
(07-21-2020 06:19 PM)Trod0 Wrote:(07-21-2020 04:59 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Menzies just needs to wait out this basketball season while COVID19 hopefully passes. Then get back into coaching at another mid-major; somewhere where he can win. Not a place like CSUN where Reggie Theus' coaching career came to a screeching halt. He should look for a job in the WCC. Menzies has a good 8-10 years left to still be a viable head coach.
This exactly, he needs to go to a place where he can win. He isn’t a guy you hire to turn a program around or even build a program around. He is a guy you consider hiring when you head coach leaves for bigger things and you want to somewhat maintain his success. If Menzies replaces a coach that got fired he won’t succeed. If he replaces a coach that got hired at something better, then he has a chance to stay at that school and retire.
I agree with you to a point. I think Menzies can rebuild a program from scratch. However, in today's environment it would be considered too long of a transition period for most major college ADs. I think Menzies had UNLV moving in the right direction. However, Menzies was on a five year plan while the UNLV administration was on a three year plan at most. Another issues with Menzies, is he does not deal well with high maintenance players. Players with baggage can derail his program much like what has happened at UNM under Weir; his former top assistant. Menzies started out fairly well with Theus' players however, after his initial start, the program took a step backward as Menzies transitioned the roster to players who he considered more coachable. Menzies is not a disciplinarian. He is more of a Father Flannigan; a mentor type. So, high maintenance players with social issues can disrupt his coaching style. In contrast, Jans is a disciplinarian who set expectation for his players from the onset; baggage or not. Any player who comes to play at NMSU knows where they stand with Jans. And, knows what lines not to cross. Menzies doesn't have the temperament to handle some of Jans' more high maintenance players; and get them to perform at a high level in a "team" concept. Heck, Theus recruit, Jahmar Young walked out on Menzies and the Aggie team during a game his freshman year. Menzies allowed Young back on the team. Jans would have sent him packing.