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+----- Thread: Optional SAT Scores For Admission (/thread-899517.html)
Optional SAT Scores For Admission - mrjoolius - 05-14-2020 06:10 AM
W&M has announced that SAT scores are optional in the application process for the next 3 years. It effects all incoming students, but I wonder it's effect on potential incoming athletes? There are hard working and capable students that struggle to meet the SAT requirements needed to get into W&M. IMO, it opens the door for a lot of kids who wouldn't have made the cut. Will it water down the incoming academic standards? I suppose it's possible. But, I don't think so.
I would hope going forward admissions weighs the big picture of a kids high school achievements and not use a standardized test as a deciding factor.
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/announcements/test-optional-admission-policy.php
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - Tribe32 - 05-14-2020 06:31 AM
Standardized tests were a good way to compare students in a supposed unbiased way. It makes sense to some degree. I think there are far easier ways to determine whether kids are a good fit. How about a five minute oral presentation about a topic? Nowadays that's as simple as recording yourself with your phone and sending in the digital recording. There are so many opportunities to leverage technology that can make old ways of doing things obsolete.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TDenverFan - 05-14-2020 08:35 AM
Fine by me... Studies show SAT scores don't really correlate with much outside of GRE scores, another standardized test.
I did very well on standardized tests, so this isn't sour grapes. I also had the luxury of being able to take an SAT prep class, and was able to take the test multiple times.
https://www.educationdive.com/news/high-school-gpa-5-times-more-likely-to-predict-college-success-than-act-sco/571287/
Schools also see a rise in applications after going test optional, so we can actually become more selective as a college
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/education/edlife/the-test-optional-surge.html
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - Tribe1693 - 05-14-2020 08:56 AM
My daughter is currently a HS Junior who has had her SAT dates moved back multiple times. She works with an advisor who preps students for the SAT and also works with students on the college admission process. This advisor works with Admissions offices throughout the country (but primarily east coast) and advised us of the "Optional SAT Scores" several weeks ago. She advised that my daughter still should take the SAT (and also encouraged her to take the ACT as well) for two reasons; 1) while it is now "Optional" it will differentiate an applicant who submits these scores during the application processes from those who do not, and; 2) many schools provide a discount/credit/grant for accepted students who score a certain level on their SAT or ACT test(s) - saving thousands. While I am sure taking the test will be difficult for many to take, I would still encourage any family that is looking at this as an option that they can skip, not to skip and still take the test. (I'm not saying anyone implied not to take it, I'm just sharing info we have been exposed to.)
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TribeFan1983 - 05-14-2020 08:56 AM
Good for W&M. Studies fail to show any correlation between SAT scores and GPA among matriculating students. Given W&M's budget problems, I wonder what other changes are coming. If W&M is going online for the near future, we can probably anticipate a larger freshman class. We'll need more students to offset the lost revenue from closed dorms.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - Swemster - 05-14-2020 09:42 AM
(05-14-2020 06:31 AM)Tribe32 Wrote: Standardized tests were a good way to compare students in a supposed unbiased way. It makes sense to some degree. I think there are far easier ways to determine whether kids are a good fit. How about a five minute oral presentation about a topic? Nowadays that's as simple as recording yourself with your phone and sending in the digital recording. There are so many opportunities to leverage technology that can make old ways of doing things obsolete.
Actually it's widely accepted in the ed research community that standardized admissions testing is a biased measure. With growing attention to the need to make higher ed more accessible, expect this to become the norm.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TribeinVB - 05-14-2020 10:12 AM
(05-14-2020 09:42 AM)Swemster Wrote:(05-14-2020 06:31 AM)Tribe32 Wrote: Standardized tests were a good way to compare students in a supposed unbiased way. It makes sense to some degree. I think there are far easier ways to determine whether kids are a good fit. How about a five minute oral presentation about a topic? Nowadays that's as simple as recording yourself with your phone and sending in the digital recording. There are so many opportunities to leverage technology that can make old ways of doing things obsolete.
Actually it's widely accepted in the ed research community that standardized admissions testing is a biased measure. With growing attention to the need to make higher ed more accessible, expect this to become the norm.
Biased measure of what? And, if by accessible you mean affordable, then I agree but if you mean something else, I don't understand how requiring SAT testing makes higher education less accessible. It's just my personal opinion, but I've always thought that the idea of a small group of people deciding who gets into a school based on an interview, essays or oral presentations is a breeding ground for bias.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TribePride91 - 05-14-2020 11:06 AM
I believe that the educational benefit since early March has been chaotic at best, nonexistent at worst. The impediments to learning along with the financial impact are the main two reasons there is a strong push to get students to return. For whatever struggles W&M and other colleges have faced, there are far more deficiencies at the high school, middle school and elementary levels. I am not placing blame on anyone, merely indicating that it was a significant challenge and impediment to learning this semester. Given the wide variations in learning environments along with motivation challenges for nearly all 15-17 year olds, it is hard to gauge the value of any testing right now. But, under more normal conditions, testing does have value. I think all factors will still be considered going forward, but this news is recognition of the mostly wasted last few months in education(which given the difficulties is totally understandable). Like many schools that went to pass/fail in the spring, it is the only realistic choice under the current circumstances. Given all of the current factors, I expect students to attend in the fall in most places. Every effort will be made to avoid having another class of HS seniors and college seniors missing their final year of preparation, joy, learning and activities.
Should the decision be made to not open for health reasons, it is possible a fair number of students will elect to not attend(or delay attending and take a semester off). If enough students choose to do that, it would have a significant further negative impact on the college financial system. But, the economics of it make me wonder if no football alone can have that effect at some colleges.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - Tribe32 - 05-14-2020 12:46 PM
(05-14-2020 09:42 AM)Swemster Wrote:(05-14-2020 06:31 AM)Tribe32 Wrote: Standardized tests were a good way to compare students in a supposed unbiased way. It makes sense to some degree. I think there are far easier ways to determine whether kids are a good fit. How about a five minute oral presentation about a topic? Nowadays that's as simple as recording yourself with your phone and sending in the digital recording. There are so many opportunities to leverage technology that can make old ways of doing things obsolete.
Actually it's widely accepted in the ed research community that standardized admissions testing is a biased measure. With growing attention to the need to make higher ed more accessible, expect this to become the norm.
You may have overlooked the word "supposed" in my post.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - Swemster - 05-14-2020 01:03 PM
(05-14-2020 12:46 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:(05-14-2020 09:42 AM)Swemster Wrote:(05-14-2020 06:31 AM)Tribe32 Wrote: Standardized tests were a good way to compare students in a supposed unbiased way. It makes sense to some degree. I think there are far easier ways to determine whether kids are a good fit. How about a five minute oral presentation about a topic? Nowadays that's as simple as recording yourself with your phone and sending in the digital recording. There are so many opportunities to leverage technology that can make old ways of doing things obsolete.
Actually it's widely accepted in the ed research community that standardized admissions testing is a biased measure. With growing attention to the need to make higher ed more accessible, expect this to become the norm.
You may have overlooked the word "supposed" in my post.
No I saw it-- I was disagreeing with the sentiment of the SAT being an unbiased assessment, not your post.
@TribeinVB, affordability certainly is one component of "accessibility" in this context. Another major component is the uphill battle students from marginalized backgrounds face when applying to competitive schools like W&M. Assessment bias and differential item functioning are widely theorized when it comes to the SAT and ACT. Here's a nice piece on the broader topic here: https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED499158. Hit download PDF and you should be able to access the document without university affiliation.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TribeFan1983 - 05-14-2020 02:06 PM
(05-14-2020 11:06 AM)TribePride91 Wrote: I believe that the educational benefit since early March has been chaotic at best, nonexistent at worst. The impediments to learning along with the financial impact are the main two reasons there is a strong push to get students to return. For whatever struggles W&M and other colleges have faced, there are far more deficiencies at the high school, middle school and elementary levels. I am not placing blame on anyone, merely indicating that it was a significant challenge and impediment to learning this semester. Given the wide variations in learning environments along with motivation challenges for nearly all 15-17 year olds, it is hard to gauge the value of any testing right now. But, under more normal conditions, testing does have value. I think all factors will still be considered going forward, but this news is recognition of the mostly wasted last few months in education(which given the difficulties is totally understandable). Like many schools that went to pass/fail in the spring, it is the only realistic choice under the current circumstances. Given all of the current factors, I expect students to attend in the fall in most places. Every effort will be made to avoid having another class of HS seniors and college seniors missing their final year of preparation, joy, learning and activities.
Should the decision be made to not open for health reasons, it is possible a fair number of students will elect to not attend(or delay attending and take a semester off). If enough students choose to do that, it would have a significant further negative impact on the college financial system. But, the economics of it make me wonder if no football alone can have that effect at some colleges.
Now that May 1 has come and gone, and students have made their choices and paid their deposits, colleges have the upper hand. At most colleges, students must request to delay enrollment. The university might say no, or they might make the student reapply for admission.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TribePride91 - 05-15-2020 09:02 AM
I am sure that it would result in a loss of deposit and potentially require re-applying. I still expect a decent number to try it if students don't return in the fall. I don't know that W&M will face a large number, but some places will.
RE: Optional SAT Scores For Admission - TDenverFan - 05-22-2020 08:20 AM
The University of California system is also eliminating the SAT and ACT
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/21/university-california-sat-act-admissions-requirements/5241427002/