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Basketball Programs Ranked - GE and MTS - 07-04-2020 08:37 AM
In our downtime, I thought it would be fun to see where we as a conference stood as far as our basketball pedigree. I used https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/ for the information, which uses Division I data only (sorry Bellarmine. Maybe next year.). Disclaimer: These are just how I view it so feel free to share your opinions! I also started this prior to NJIT leaving so I'll keep them in there.
9. North Alabama
The Lions are in last place, though that is a byproduct of their very short Division I history. They have won 23 games in their short history, over 100 less than the next program. Despite being the newest to Division I, they don't have the lowest winning percentage of 37.1%. A few good seasons (or a special one) paired up with more bad ones from some others would have North Alabama jumping up the list in no time.
8. Kennesaw State
The Owls are thankful for Division I callups as they'd be clearly the bottom program without Bellarmine and North Alabama. Their historical 27.55% winning percentage in 15 seasons is atrocious, especially when you consider they are in/near a recruiting hotbed like Atlanta. It is literally the worst winning percentage of any current Division I program. With them having over a decade head start on Division I, I gave them the edge over North Alabama but it likely won't last for long. Maybe they turn things around soon.
7. Stetson
The Hatters are the second-longest member of Division I in the ASUN at 49 seasons, and the longest tenured current ASUN member at 35 seasons. So why are they only 7th? Quite frankly, they've never done anything in Division I. They have never won a conference championship (regular season or tournament) and thus have never made the NCAA tournament. They never had one special season. They may have more wins than almost everyone else and have a better winning percentage than others ahead of them, but these feel like empty calories compared to the highs other schools achieved in less time.
6. New Jersey Institute of Technology
Maybe you were expecting the Highlanders lower on the list, but did you know that they've won a conference regular season championship? The 2012-2013 Great West Conference championship banner is theirs, one more than everyone else below them on this list. It hurts that they went back to being independent afterwards as the conference collapsed. Whenever they have been in a conference, they've been able to start to flourish a little. Some stability here in the ASUN would have done them well. Their 39.05% winning percentage is the third-lowest in the conference. Expect them to start hitting their stride in a few years after joining their new conference.
5. North Florida
The Ospreys have been Division I for 15 years, the same as Kennesaw State and NJIT. They find themselves above those two as they have won three regular season conference championships and one tournament championship. That single tournament championship led to their only NCAA appearance, losing in the round of 68. UNF shows 204 career wins and a winning percentage of 42.59%.
4. Lipscomb
The Bison have been Division I for 18 seasons and have three regular season championships and one conference tournament championship like North Florida. However, what sets them apart is that they made the round of 64 in the NCAA tournament and have a career winning percentage of 51.88% with 290 wins. The lack of performance in the NCAA tournament keeps them from being higher in the list.
3. Liberty
The Flames may have a lower career winning percentage at 48.84% compared to Lipscomb, but the real separator is conference tournament championships: Liberty has four compared to one for Lipscomb. The Flames also have almost 200 more wins (483 compared to 290) and have made the Round of 32 in the NCAA tournament. If Lipscomb could make a Sweet Sixteen, they'd have a strong argument to move ahead of Liberty. Speaking of Sweet Sixteens...
2. Florida Gulf Coast
The Eagles have the second-highest winning percentage in the conference behind Lipscomb, the only two above .500. FGCU is tied with the most regular season championships at 3 with the second-most tournament championships with 3, behind Liberty's 4. What really separates FGCU from all the others that came further down the list is their Sweet Sixteen run in the 2012-2013 season. It's pretty impressive what FGCU has been able to do since they are the newest Division I member in the conference after North Alabama and Bellarmine (13 seasons).
1. Jacksonville
How many saw this coming when you started to read this? I sure didn't before I started researching. The Dolphins have the longest history in Division I compared to all the other ASUN members with 54 seasons, more wins at 764, but only two regular season championships and two tournament championships. The real separator between Jacksonville and the other schools is their other performance: they've won 5 NCAA tournament games, ended up in the championship game and lost (1969-1970 season), was ranked two different times at the end of the season, and spent 49 total weeks ranked by the AP, the highest being 3rd. The rest of the conference has a LONG way to go to catch up to Jacksonville, and it's a shame JU hasn't come remotely close to building off their amazing run during the early '70s.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - Courtside - 07-04-2020 10:06 AM
I was in High School in Jacksonville when JU made the magical trip to the Final Four in 1970. It was an amazing run that ended with the loss to UCLA in the final. My older brother was a student at JU at the time and travelled to College Park for Final Four. Some great games that year. A win & loss to Dave Cowens & FSU in the regular season were both televised and great games. Wins in the tournament versus #1 Kentucky with Dan Issel, and Big Ten champs Iowa at the buzzer were great games. JU had a very good team in '68-'69 (17-7) with wins vs Florida, FSU, and Georgia Tech. The addition of 7-2 Artis Gilmore and 7-0 Pembrook Burrows in the Summer of 1969 completed a most improbable roster.
What came next should be a Harvard Business Review case study in "How Not" to do it. The short of it, the then administration at JU had no clue as to what they had. They let HC Joe Williams walk (to Furman) for a modest bump, and invested zero into the program. The community of Jacksonville (pre Jaguars & UNF) had been totally energized by the success of that team. Just a modicum of vision by the administration could have tapped into that and put JU on a totally different trajectory.
Yes, JU continued to have success but it didn't last. The following year the team was actually more talented and went to the tournament again but lost to eventual Final Four team Western Kentucky. Following that season they brought in one of the best recruiting classes in the country. That class helped JU to another tournament berth.
In the 1970's & 1980's four different (Joe Williams, Tom Wasdin, Tates Locke & Bob Wenzel) coaches would take JU to the NCAA tournament. JU's last NCAA appearance was in 1986.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - OrangeCamel - 07-04-2020 12:20 PM
Knowing about Jacksonville’s history should be required of all who follow the “ASUN”. Required nugget #2....it’s the Bisons!
Thanks, Courtside, for the insight on what happened with JU’s program after that NCAA run. Never had heard the specifics but wondered. I was only 5 in ‘70, but picked up on JU’s past watching Sun Belt basketball on tv later that decade (and after UNCC’s Final Four run.)
Good topic! I’d put Stetson #3 - or maybe even #2 - simply due to Lurch, but that’s going pre-D1. (Start googling, kids.)
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - MercerFan - 07-05-2020 08:42 AM
Very cool to hear your perspective on JU, Courtside. I’ve known of their success but never heard a personal account of it. I’m always rooting for Stetson to one day make the big dance. FGCU has really fallen down from their Dunk City days. They are trying to maintain a budget and its hard to keep a good coach in town with those limits.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - Courtside - 07-05-2020 10:31 AM
For anyone interested, the attached piece was done several years ago but is an excellent account of that 1969-70 team.
There are a couple video documentaries out there as well.
https://grantland.com/features/how-jacksonville-earned-credit-card-paul-hemphill/
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - knightmoves - 07-05-2020 02:16 PM
(07-05-2020 10:31 AM)Courtside Wrote: For anyone interested, the attached piece was done several years ago but is an excellent account of that 1969-70 team.
There are a couple video documentaries out there as well.
https://grantland.com/features/how-jacksonville-earned-credit-card-paul-hemphill/
(Old) people in Louisville are aware of Jacksonville's history because Artis Gilmore became a star for the ABA Kentucky Colonels. He paired with Dan Issel and the Colonels had probably the best team in professional basketball for a couple of seasons.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 12-24-2020 11:07 AM
1. Liberty
2. FGCU
3. Lipscomb
4. Jacksonville
5. Bellarmine
6. North Alabama
7. Stetson
8. Kennesaw St.
9. North Florida
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-04-2021 05:38 PM
I stand by these rankings, as I see’em, after the first weekend of conference play.
(12-24-2020 11:07 AM)army56mike Wrote: 1. Liberty
2. FGCU
3. Lipscomb
4. Jacksonville
5. Bellarmine
6. North Alabama
7. Stetson
8. Kennesaw St.
9. North Florida
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - knightmoves - 01-06-2021 09:57 AM
(01-04-2021 05:38 PM)army56mike Wrote: I stand by these rankings, as I see’em, after the first weekend of conference play.
(12-24-2020 11:07 AM)army56mike Wrote: 1. Liberty
2. FGCU
3. Lipscomb
4. Jacksonville
5. Bellarmine
6. North Alabama
7. Stetson
8. Kennesaw St.
9. North Florida
Love this kind of speculation, but you need to back it up with some rationale. Its okay for the rationale to be subjective, but you still got to state it. Some general thoughts: Records at this point are fairly meaningless. Way too many cream puffs played by everybody. I know its a crazy season, but Bellarmine did not play teams this bad when they were D2. I'm really looking at how teams have played against good to very good teams and if they played cream puffs, they better have crushed them. If I were a coach I would not put much stake in "good" losses. As a handicapper, however, there are definitely good losses and bad wins.
Based on my observations of this season. I would rank the teams in the ASUN as follows:
1. Liberty: Very good wins against Power 5 teams. Also some very good losses to Power 5 teams. Good win over Lipscomb. Worst game was probably the win over Bluefield College, it should not have been competitive. They are well coached and fairly consistent. They can shoot the ball, period.
2. Bellarmine: Has played well. Very good loss to Notre Dame, while shooting 50% from the field and taking the game down to the last three minutes. Good loss to Chatanooga (who has shown itself to be a pretty good team) considering BU was without its starting point guard and best three point shooter. Crushed powder puffs. Worst loss was by 21 to Duke, but considering it was their first game and they were short handed and its DUKE, it was not a bad performance.
3. Lipscomb: Most talented team in the ASUN. Has really underperformed. The win against Liberty was very impressive, but honestly, I don't think they have another good game, win or loss. Terrible win against Trivecca. Terrible loss to Arkansas, who just crushed them like a bug. Best loss was to Tulane.
4. FGCU: Good win against a very depleted Miami team (mutiple starters out). The rest of their games are not impressive. Crushed by a good South Florida team. Crushed by a mediocre FIU. Bad win against NAIA Florida National.
5. Jacksonville: No impressive wins. Just totally annihalated by Power 5 teams Georgia and Kansas State. They have beaten some bad D1 teams, which is good. Probably the worst win in the ASUN, a 9 point victory over the horrendously bad Florida National. Wins against Kennesaw were not impressive.
6. North Alabama: 4 wins against bad non D1 or D2 teams. They did beat them easily. Two losses to D1 teams, including a mediocre Troy and an absolute thrashing by an okay Indiana team. They may turn out to be better than they have played so far.
7. Stetson: Worst loss in the ASUN this year to D2 also ran, Emmanuel. Talented team that has underperformed. Best loss was an 11 pointer to a good South Florida team.
8. North Florida: 2-8 so far. Early on they had some not terrible losses to some pretty good teams. They were competive against NC St. for a half and Florida State for a half. The loss to Flagler Collage, hovever, is embarrassingly bad. Despite all of that, I think they may win more games in the ASUN than their pre conference performance would indicate. I think their coaching is good
9. Kennesaw: Best game is loss to a good Belmont team. Crushed by a very good Creighton, and a good UAB team. I do not believe they are well coached.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-07-2021 05:42 PM
I base it off what I’ve posted of KenPom and Net Rankings on the 2021 Basket Season Post, scores against other opponents, and the eyeball test from watching ASUN games.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-09-2021 10:05 PM
Following week two of the conference season, this is how I see the power rankings.
1. Liberty - They appear to be above the other teams, even with the loss to oLU. They haven’t played a complete game in conference yet and still have lots of room left to improve.
2. otherLU - They have a good win over Liberty and two good close wins over a very competitive Bellarmine team. With Asadullah and Johnson they are pretty formidable and well coached.
3. FGCU - Yep, I know, they haven’t played a conference game yet. But they have a couple nice OOC wins, which is more than some can say.
4. Jax - They are getting it done and I’m gonna give them the benefit of the doubt for now. I think a couple of teams will leap them along the way.
5. Bellarmine - They could have won both of their games against oLU. The games were closer than the score says. And oLU is a good team. So I’ll give the Knights some power points for those games.
6. North Alabama - Have shown they will be competitive in the ASUN this season. The future is bright for UNA.
7. North Florida After their early struggles they are looking better. As the season continues I expect them to get stronger.
8. Stetson - Don’t think last years surprise team is gonna sneak up on folks this season. But they’re still competitive.
9. Kennesaw St. - Kennesaw has the pieces to be successful. They just need to learn how to win.
KENPOM
97. Liberty (+6)
207. otherLU (+10)
234. FGCU (-4)
240. Stetson (+3)
272. North Alabama (-3)
276. Bellarmine (-14)
293. North Florida (+1)
302. Jacksonville (-2)
350. Kennesaw St. (-)
175. EKU (+2)
222. Jacksonville St. (+7)
246. Central Arkansas (-10)
357. Is the worst possible ranking.
178. Divides top half from the bottom half.
119. Puts you in the top Third in the nation.
89. Puts you in Top 25% of teams in the nation
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-10-2021 03:05 PM
Men’s NCAA Net Rankings
68. Liberty (+2)
194. FGCU (+3)
223. otherLU (+19)
271. Jax (-6)
292. Bellarmine (-51)
293. North Florida (+5)
295. Stetson (-13)
314. North Alabama (-10)
326. Kennesaw St. (-6)
141. EKU (+16)
180. Jax St. (-40)
244. C. Arkansas (-21)
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - lion1983 - 01-10-2021 05:08 PM
(01-10-2021 03:05 PM)army56mike Wrote: Men’s NCAA Net Rankings
68. Liberty (+2)
194. FGCU (+3)
223. otherLU (+19)
271. Jax (-6)
292. Bellarmine (-51)
293. North Florida (+5)
295. Stetson (-13)
314. North Alabama (-10)
326. Kennesaw St. (-6)
141. EKU (+16)
180. Jax St. (-40)
244. C. Arkansas (-21)
Wow.... dropped 10 after a win...
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-10-2021 06:12 PM
(01-10-2021 05:08 PM)lion1983 Wrote: 295. Stetson (-13)To be fair, there was a loss also. But they are just numbers. String a few wins together and things will get brighter. UNA looks better than last year in my eyes. Y’all are headed in the right direction.
314. North Alabama (-10)
Wow.... dropped 10 after a win...
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-10-2021 10:05 PM
MBB RPI
159. Liberty (-60)
168. FGCU (-21)
198. otherLU (+64)
249. North Florida (+33)
271. Kennesaw St. (-7)
276. Jax (-41)
302. Bellarmine (-52)
317. Stetson (-88)
336. North Alabama (-20)
111. EKU (+46)
172. Jax St. (-22)
186. C. Ark (-6)
WBB RPI
33. FGCU (-16)
146. Liberty (+34)
246. Lipscomb (+22)
251. Jax (+10)
258. North Alabama (-24)
265. Stetson (-46)
301. North Florida (-3)
329. Kennesaw St. (-49)
335. Bellarmine (-13)
70. Jax St. (+9)
97. EKU (+5)
221. C. Ark (-7)
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-10-2021 10:52 PM
Conference RPI
. . TRB. . . . Nolan. . . . . .Real Time
1. Big 12. . . . Big East. . . . Big 10
2. AAC. . . . . Big 12. . . . . Big 12
3. SEC. . . . . Pac 12. . . . . AAC
4. Big 10. . . . Big 10. . . . . SEC
5. Big East. . . SEC. . . . . . .WCC
6. ACC. . . . . ACC. . . . . . .ACC
7. SoCon. . . . A10. . . . . . .Big East
8. A10. . . . . AAC. . . . . . .Pac 12
9. MVC. . . . . WCC. . . . . . .SoCon
10. MAAC. . . .MWC. . . . . . .MWC
11. Sun Belt . . MVC. . . . . . . A10
12. C-USA. . . MAC. . . . . . . MVC
13. CAA. . . . .SoCon. . . . . . Patriot
14. MAC. . . . Sun Belt. . . . . Sun Belt
15. Horizon. . . Ivy. . . . . . . MAAC
16. OVC. . . . CAA. . . . . . . C-USA
17. SWAC. . . .C-USA. . . . . . CAA
18. Big South. . Big Sky. . . . . MAC
19. AEC. . . . .Patriot. . . . . .NEC
20. ASUN. . . . MAAC. . . . . . Horizon
21. Southland. . AEC. . . . . . .Big South
22. MWC. . . . Summit. . . . . SWAC
23. Big Sky. . . Horizon. . . . . OVC
24. Summit. . . Big West. . . . .Big West
25. Patriot. . . .ASUN. . . . . . AEC
26. Pac 12. . . .NEC. . . . . . .Summit
27. MEAC. . . . WAC. . . . . . .Big Sky
28. WCC. . . . Big South. . . . Southland
29. WAC. . . . OVC. . . . . . . MEAC
30. NEC. . . . .Southland. . . . ASUN
31. Big West. . .SWAC. . . . . . WAC
32. Ivy. . . . . MEAC
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-17-2021 08:57 PM
1. Liberty 12-5 (4-2)- Still rank them as the class of the conference even though they have shown they are vulnerable. They have yet to play consistent and put an entire game together.
2. otherLU 9-7 (4-2)- They have split with a tough Liberty team and swept a good looking and more confident Bellarmine team. Ditto for UNF who they lostnone to.
3. Bellarmine 5-5 (2-2)- I’m high on Bellarmine because their offense is so fluid and precise. They dismantled, what is supposed to be a decent FGCU team on the road.
4. Jax 9-5 (3-1)- This is based on what their record shows thus far.
5. Stetson 4-6 (2-2)- They beat the beat team. They are playing better. They can be a tough team, especially when healthy.
6. North Alabama 7-3 (3-1)- Can’t argue with the results so far, even though they haven’t faced the toughest competition.
7. FGCU 5-4 (0-2)- They lost to a tough Bellarmine team. But they have some good wins as well.
8. North Florida 4-10 (2-2)- Team is improving.
9. Kennesaw St. 3-11 (0-6)- Good potential, little results.
KENPOM
102. Liberty (-5)
212. otherLU (-5)
226. Stetson (+14)
229. Bellarmine (+47)
257. North Alabama (+15)
283. FGCU (-49)
292. North Florida (+1)
300. Jacksonville (+2)
350. Kennesaw St. (-)
168. EKU (+7)
218. Jacksonville St. (+4)
276. Central Arkansas (-30)
357. Is the worst possible ranking.
178. Divides top half from the bottom half.
119. Puts you in the top Third in the nation.
89. Puts you in Top 25% of teams in the nation.
MEN’S NET RANKING
77. Liberty (-9)
223. Bellarmine (+69)
228. otherLU (-5)
234. Stetson (+61)
269. North Alabama (+45)
280. Jax (-9)
283. North Florida (+10)
296. FGCU (-102)
337. Kennesaw St. (-11)
137. EKU (+)
196. Jax St. (-16)
284. C. Arkansas (-40)
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-18-2021 05:05 PM
Women’s Net Ranking
71. FGCU (-)
102. Liberty (+1)
236. North Florida (-3)
245. North Alabama (-1)
268. Stetson (-2)
276. otherLU (+5)
283. Jax (-12)
286. Kennesaw St. (-)
339. Bellarmine (-)
96. Jax St. (+3)
185. EKU (+2)
288. C. Ark (-)
Women’s RPI
88. FGCU (-55)
147. Liberty (-)
237. Stetson (+28)
238. otherLU (+10)
251. North Alabama (+7)
308. North Florida (-7)
321. Bellarmine (+14)
326. Jax (-73)
329. Kennesaw St. (-1)
72. Jax St. (-2)
107. EKU (-15)
231. C. Ark (-15)
Men’s RPI
167. Liberty (-9)
204. Stetson (+112)
213. North Florida (+35)
216. Bellarmine (+87)
217. otherLU (-21)
290. Jax (-16)
307. FGCU (-140)
312. North Alabama (+24)
330. Kennesaw St. (-59)
84. EKU (+27)
171. Jax St. (+2)
236. C. Ark (-52)
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - army56mike - 01-24-2021 12:02 AM
This is how I see things so far...
1. Liberty- (4-2) 12-5
Still ranking them on top, one because I am biased, two because I think they have the best wins, and three because the rankings suggest they are currently best.
2. Lipscomb - (5-3) 10-8
The have good conference wins against better ASUN teams.
3. Bellarmine - (4-2) 7-5
I don’t think anyone wants to play the Knights right now. They are showing tenacity, toughness and precision.
4. North Alabama - (5-1) 9-3
Program on the rise. You can’t argue with the results. Can’t wait to see them go against the top ASUN teams.
5. North Florida - (4-2) 6-10
Team is coming into shape. They are improving with each game.
6. Jacksonville - (3-3) 9-7
Better than last year, but still not improved enough to challenge.
7. FGCU - (1-3) 6-5
The Eagles are getting better but are inconsistant. I expect them to keep moving up the ASUN chain.
8. Stetson - (2-4) 4-8
Thought they’d be better this year.
9. Kennesaw St. (0-8) 3-13
Hmm. They have the talent but not the attitude. Their season may be over.
RE: Basketball Programs Ranked - Courtside - 01-24-2021 08:18 PM
(01-24-2021 12:02 AM)army56mike Wrote: This is how I see things so far...
1. Liberty- (4-2) 12-5
Still ranking them on top, one because I am biased, two because I think they have the best wins, and three because the rankings suggest they are currently best.
2. Lipscomb - (5-3) 10-8
The have good conference wins against better ASUN teams.
3. Bellarmine - (4-2) 7-5
I don’t think anyone wants to play the Knights right now. They are showing tenacity, toughness and precision.
4. North Alabama - (5-1) 9-3
Program on the rise. You can’t argue with the results. Can’t wait to see them go against the top ASUN teams.
5. North Florida - (4-2) 6-10
Team is coming into shape. They are improving with each game.
6. Jacksonville - (3-3) 9-7
Better than last year, but still not improved enough to challenge.
7. FGCU - (1-3) 6-5
The Eagles are getting better but are inconsistant. I expect them to keep moving up the ASUN chain.
8. Stetson - (2-4) 4-8
Thought they’d be better this year.
9. Kennesaw St. (0-8) 3-13
Hmm. They have the talent but not the attitude. Their season may be over.
Stetson is a mind blower. Had everyone back from a talented freshman driven team and added a couple nice players. UNA is not shocking, athletic/tough/physical Post duo to go with a seasoned backcourt. Added some much needed depth. I wish that I could get to that UNF/UNA series this weekend (thx Ted). FGCU has a very good roster in my estimation. I have never been impressed with Fly though.