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+---- Thread: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? (/thread-894444.html)
Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - f1do - 02-14-2020 04:27 PM
https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082
Frustrated with recent budget cuts, Eastern Washington University faculty prepared a report this month that takes a critical look at the athletics department and suggests possibly eliminating the athletics department entirely.
The report analyzed the cost of the athletics program to be around $12 million to $14 million per year, but says it has had "no positive impact on our student enrollment, retention or recruitment."
...
Eliminating the athletics department was just one of many suggestions laid out as an "alternative model" for athletics. The others include imposing budget cuts on athletics, eliminating only football, or transitioning to the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics, NCAA Division II or Division III.
...
"This means 74 percent of the budget of athletics is money coming from the institution that could be spent elsewhere," the report says, in addition to an extra $2 million per year allocated to the department.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - bullet - 02-14-2020 04:38 PM
Faculty. Pretty meaningless. They always oppose athletics. Tried to shut it down at Rutgers about 10 years ago.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - Garrettabc - 02-14-2020 04:39 PM
And do away with the ravaging red field? They also have a fairly recent football title. I hope they can figure out another way.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - Attackcoog - 02-14-2020 05:01 PM
EWU has seen dwindling enrollment in recent years, forcing the university to approve a $3.6 million budget cut in June of last year for 2020.
Faculty is concerned that the university is not replacing retiring faculty members
Seems to me that if enrollment is declining, so should faculty. Not replacing retiring faculty seems like a painless way to shrink the faculty size. The truth of the these kinds disputes is this---Just as coaches can always find a way to spend an extra million---faculty can find a way to spend that million as well. Best I can tell, nobody in the presidents office or on the BOR asked for this report---thus, its not being considered. It means about as much if I sent them an unsolicited report on the value of their athletic department.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - CitrusUCF - 02-14-2020 05:04 PM
I doubt anything significant will change at this point, but we're going to see more of this in the coming years. There's a projected major dip in college enrollment coming mid-decade as the Great Recession resulted in fewer births, and we're going to see that 18 years later. Couple that with kids increasingly skeptical of taking on student debt, and we're in for a nice wallop of reduced enrollment. The hardest hit will be regional schools like EWU as well as less prestigious private schools. EWU may not change anything right now, but we're going to see athletics ended or downgraded at a number of schools in the next decade.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - Wedge - 02-14-2020 05:14 PM
They are in a difficult situation that has nothing to do with athletics. Roughly 40% of the public university students in Washington attend one of the two universities, WSU and EWU, in the far eastern part of the state, but 80% of the state population lives 4+ hours away in western Washington. WSU has the better academic reputation and, by itself, has a higher percentage of the state's public university students than the percentage of Washington residents living in the eastern part of the state. It must be a very hard sell to get students from the Seattle area or south of Seattle (many of whom could save money by commuting to a public school in western Washington) to choose EWU.
Schools like EWU are right up there with non-elite private universities when it comes to being hit by the first waves of declining population in the soon-to-be-college-age group.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - DoubleRSU - 02-14-2020 05:29 PM
(02-14-2020 04:27 PM)f1do Wrote: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082
"This means 74 percent of the budget of athletics is money coming from the institution that could be spent elsewhere," the report says, in addition to an extra $2 million per year allocated to the department.
If true, you have to wonder why this is even allowed. We all love sports and college athletics, but that number is ridiculous.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - LatahCounty - 02-14-2020 05:33 PM
Whenever a poster here included EWU as a potential western FBS moveup, it was always a dead giveaway that the poster had no idea what he was talking about.
I grew up in the inland northwest, and have lived in the area within a couple hours of the EWU campus for about 80% of my life. I know many Cougs, many Vandals, many Huskies, many diehard BSU, BYU and Gonzaga fans (alumni or no), and a good smattering of Ducks, Beavs, Griz and Bobcats, all with a large amount of school pride. I have almost never encountered anyone with any interest in EWU as a school. If people went there, the relationship appears to be mainly transactional -- get the degree, leave.
EWU has punched significantly above its weight class in football for a long time. It's a testament to their athletic department but they don't have much infrastructure to fall back on, and if they ever have a bad run it's going to be tough to come back. The school is having real budgetary issues and I would take this somewhat more seriously than the usual faculty whining.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - johnbragg - 02-14-2020 05:37 PM
(02-14-2020 05:29 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(02-14-2020 04:27 PM)f1do Wrote: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082
"This means 74 percent of the budget of athletics is money coming from the institution that could be spent elsewhere," the report says, in addition to an extra $2 million per year allocated to the department.
If true, you have to wonder why this is even allowed. We all love sports and college athletics, but that number is ridiculous.
That number's pretty common below the P5 level. Universities see athletics as, basically, an advertising expense. The faculty group is asking if the advertising is producing any results.
Which is a good question--the "Flutie effect" has been real at some places (Alabama is now mostly out-of-state students, FGCU had a big bump in applications) but there is a real question if the FCS playoffs or a first-round NCAA exit produces any comparable effects.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - Wedge - 02-14-2020 05:48 PM
(02-14-2020 05:37 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(02-14-2020 05:29 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(02-14-2020 04:27 PM)f1do Wrote: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082
"This means 74 percent of the budget of athletics is money coming from the institution that could be spent elsewhere," the report says, in addition to an extra $2 million per year allocated to the department.
If true, you have to wonder why this is even allowed. We all love sports and college athletics, but that number is ridiculous.
That number's pretty common below the P5 level. Universities see athletics as, basically, an advertising expense. The faculty group is asking if the advertising is producing any results.
Which is a good question--the "Flutie effect" has been real at some places (Alabama is now mostly out-of-state students, FGCU had a big bump in applications) but there is a real question if the FCS playoffs or a first-round NCAA exit produces any comparable effects.
To put that question in EWU's context, do they attract more students away from CWU and WWU by being the only one of the three with D-I athletics. Maybe their argument would be that EWU needs all the help it can get in trying to get western Washington students who don't get into UW or WSU to go all the way out to EWU when they have other, closer options. Even Portland State is much closer to western Washington, and gives Washington residents about half off the price of out of state tuition.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - utpotts - 02-14-2020 05:57 PM
I thought DavidSt say they were going D1 FBS.......
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - Attackcoog - 02-14-2020 08:22 PM
(02-14-2020 05:48 PM)Wedge Wrote:(02-14-2020 05:37 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(02-14-2020 05:29 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(02-14-2020 04:27 PM)f1do Wrote: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082
"This means 74 percent of the budget of athletics is money coming from the institution that could be spent elsewhere," the report says, in addition to an extra $2 million per year allocated to the department.
If true, you have to wonder why this is even allowed. We all love sports and college athletics, but that number is ridiculous.
That number's pretty common below the P5 level. Universities see athletics as, basically, an advertising expense. The faculty group is asking if the advertising is producing any results.
Which is a good question--the "Flutie effect" has been real at some places (Alabama is now mostly out-of-state students, FGCU had a big bump in applications) but there is a real question if the FCS playoffs or a first-round NCAA exit produces any comparable effects.
To put that question in EWU's context, do they attract more students away from CWU and WWU by being the only one of the three with D-I athletics. Maybe their argument would be that EWU needs all the help it can get in trying to get western Washington students who don't get into UW or WSU to go all the way out to EWU when they have other, closer options. Even Portland State is much closer to western Washington, and gives Washington residents about half off the price of out of state tuition.
Correct. How many students might not consider the school at all if it didnt have sports? I mean we know 400 or so students who play sports are gone. The band, cheer, and drill team kids are probably all gone too. Then there are those that just want that stuff to be part of their college experience and wont bother applying to a school that doesnt feature a sports program. Its not just about how many extra come when you win---its about how many wouldnt even have even considered the school if there was no sports program.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - NotANewbie - 02-14-2020 10:19 PM
. . .
"To put that question in EWU's context, do they attract more students away from CWU and WWU by being the only one of the three with D-I athletics. Maybe their argument would be that EWU needs all the help it can get in trying to get western Washington students who don't get into UW or WSU to go all the way out to EWU when they have other, closer options. Even Portland State is much closer to western Washington, and gives Washington residents about half off the price of out of state tuition."
For students east of the Columbia River EWU is an option. WSU is definitely the first choice, but EWU is in the picture.
My son graduated from a Spokane high school, and for his classmates, WSU, WWU, and UW were the top choices with UI grabbing a handful, although a good number chose EWU for convenience. I worked at a school district in suburban Seattle for about a decade, and students there who wanted to attend a four year school would look mostly at UW or WWU followed by CWU. EWU attracted a few students, but not very many.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - CoastalVANDAL - 02-15-2020 10:06 AM
I get killed for this but the NCAA or conference could help schools like this.Increasing pressure to compete at the revenue sports along with falling revenue has to be addressed in some way.
NCAA could lower the number of sports required for each division.
Critics will say just drop but maybe a third or more schools need some kind of cost relief.
The Big Sky could change the required sports mix to reduce cost for members.
Add women's soccer 11 or 12 play already.
Add sand volleyball and men's volleyball
Add another cheap men's sport
Cut M & W tennis and golf
Add Dixie St to football and split into two seven team football only conferences.
In my opinion spend more on spectator sports.
Volleyball and soccer actually draw fans vs Tennis and golf .
If the sports program is advertising for the university having fans matters. EWU gets 10k for football games nothing else they do is going to bring in that kind of attention.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - DavidSt - 02-15-2020 11:16 AM
Central Washington U. and Western Washington U. is not having that problem with student populations, and CWU seemed to have some success in fundraising for infrastructures. The problem could be the people who are running EWU like the President and BoRs who are not doing something right about attracting students or raised the funds for athletics.
Now, get Central Washington, Western Washington to restart football, Western Oregon, CSU-Pueblo, Colorado Mesa, Western Oregon, Simon Fraser, College of Idaho, Carroll Montana and Azusa Pacific to upgrade to FCS football? You could get Big Sky schools to save money on sports. Get San Diego or any of the west coast D3 schools to move up could help.
Put a little pressure on all those public west coast schools to start football as well.
As for one of the largest schools? Bellevue the 2 year public college is pretty large that could be turned into Bellevue State or Bellevue University as a 4 year to work their way up.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - AZcats - 02-15-2020 12:59 PM
Here we go again, and it took only 14 posts before David brings his irrelevant fantasy to "solve" the problem for Eastern Washington. How exactly does getting a bunch of D2 and NAIA schools from as far as CA, CO, and MT joining D1 going to stop declining enrollment or improve fundraising at EWU? The problems at EWU need to be solved now; not 5, 10, or more years from now when those schools complete the reclassification.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - BruceMcF - 02-15-2020 01:24 PM
(02-15-2020 10:06 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote: In my opinion spend more on spectator sports.
Volleyball and soccer actually draw fans vs Tennis and golf.
How much do you reckon they are spending on Tennis and Golf, aside from notional scholarship costs ... and if they are not facing capacity constraints on their facilities, most of scholarship costs are soft money.
They have the bare minimum team sports ... two men team sports for a school that plays football, football and basketball, three women teams sports, soccer, basketball and volleyball.
It's not likely that the other sport have much net cost to them ... to the extent that the individual sports don't collect more in tuition than it costs to run them, it'd mostly be due to the need to have enough women's scholarships to offset Men's football scholarships. So it's not likely that EWU would save anything from dropping women's golf ... indeed, it would not be surprising if women's golf is indeed the cheapest way to meet their Title IX requirements after the cheapest complement of M&W outdoor track and field, cross country, and tennis are used to get up to the minimum number of sports requirement.
Quote: If the sports program is advertising for the university having fans matters. EWU gets 10k for football games nothing else they do is going to bring in that kind of attention.
And pretty much everything else is a cost of fielding that football team, since you can't be FCS if you aren't Division 1.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - SoCalBobcat78 - 02-15-2020 03:06 PM
(02-14-2020 05:29 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:(02-14-2020 04:27 PM)f1do Wrote: https://www.inlander.com/spokane/ewu-faculty-write-report-suggesting-cuts-to-athletics-budget-or-even-eliminating-it-entirely/Content?oid=19099082
"This means 74 percent of the budget of athletics is money coming from the institution that could be spent elsewhere," the report says, in addition to an extra $2 million per year allocated to the department.
If true, you have to wonder why this is even allowed. We all love sports and college athletics, but that number is ridiculous.
That percentage is not unusual at D1 level and gets even worse at the D2 and D3 level. I am pretty sure the real issues are faculty jobs being eliminated and enrollment. Athletics are just an easy target. As long as there are people who are willing to donate $5 million to the renovation of the football stadium, athletics are not going away.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2019/09/20/eastern-washington-gets-5m-donation-for-football-stadium/40178129/
EWU was just in the national championship game in football in 2018 and won it in 2010. They made the NCAA Tournament in men's basketball in 2015. They are just facing the same issues that many universities are dealing with. It will not be easy but they will get through it.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - Kit-Cat - 02-15-2020 09:51 PM
Private schools are under a lot more pressure since they dont get matching dollars from the state for graduating student athletes.
If more athletic programs got out of the game of course it would strengthen those still in it.
RE: Eastern Washington's sports in jeopardy? - quo vadis - 02-15-2020 10:27 PM
Obviously, athletics should be eliminated at EWU. But it is a testament to the barnacle-like tenacity of admins towards keeping athletics that this has no chance of happening.
I mean, the Athletic Director questioned the report by suggesting that professors who probably know 10x as much as she does about statistics were using statistics out of context. Surreal.