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+----- Thread: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... (/thread-893776.html)
I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMU13 - 02-05-2020 10:23 AM
[attachment=10232]
Ranked #4 recruiting class in CAA by 247 sports.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMad03 - 02-05-2020 10:33 AM
Oh boy here we go....
I guess we should fire Cignetti since a ranking determined the players that we chose were worse than another school.
Proof that rankings are garbage:
MBB was ranked 4th in the CAA.
Rankings without real results are meaningless. If it turns out that these players truly are a step down, then that is the time to start having concerns. Perhaps there is a reason they went after these specific guys. So what they didn't have that many stars or weren't recruited by as many FBS schools.
https://jamesmadison.rivals.com/news/jmu-adds-lb-naotala-to-20-class
This guy had practically few offers coming out. Does that mean he's a garbage player? Not according to his coach who says he's the best guy he's coached in 30 years. He could end up being the best player in the class. But he didn't get many offers so he must be terrible, right?
Just take a step back, relax and give these guys a chance to prove themselves.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMU2004 - 02-05-2020 10:44 AM
Cig oversaw recruiting at Bama, recruited well to D2, and got good talent to Elon.
Recruit rankings a crap shoot designed to monetize the off season. At our level, the rankings are even more meaningless.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - fishingduke12 - 02-05-2020 11:43 AM
Cig came in last year and got Polk and Palmer late, two of the bigger impact players on last years squad. He also kept almost the entire recruiting class intact which is rare with a coaching change. I think he has somewhat of an idea what he's doing.
Nobody has brought up the 4 OL we brought in that are all right around 300lbs. Some very good defensive backs and a QB that seems to have the potential to lead the team in future years. Not sure what other people want. A 3 star recruit is a big pickup for any FCS school and we got a handful of them prior to their stars being lowered after commitments
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - Deez Nuts - 02-05-2020 11:46 AM
sounds good yeah let's judge the pot before the coffee is finished.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMURocks - 02-05-2020 11:50 AM
(02-05-2020 11:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: Cig came in last year and got Polk and Palmer late, two of the bigger impact players on last years squad. He also kept almost the entire recruiting class intact which is rare with a coaching change. I think he has somewhat of an idea what he's doing.
Nobody has brought up the 4 OL we brought in that are all right around 300lbs. Some very good defensive backs and a QB that seems to have the potential to lead the team in future years. Not sure what other people want. A 3 star recruit is a big pickup for any FCS school and we got a handful of them prior to their stars being lowered after commitments
This. Total confidence in Cig’s recruiting. What he did last year was near perfect. Results to date show he knows what he is doing, and 24/7 rankings are relatively worthless.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - Dukester - 02-05-2020 11:57 AM
(02-05-2020 11:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: Cig came in last year and got Polk and Palmer late, two of the bigger impact players on last years squad. He also kept almost the entire recruiting class intact which is rare with a coaching change. I think he has somewhat of an idea what he's doing.
Nobody has brought up the 4 OL we brought in that are all right around 300lbs. Some very good defensive backs and a QB that seems to have the potential to lead the team in future years. Not sure what other people want. A 3 star recruit is a big pickup for any FCS school and we got a handful of them prior to their stars being lowered after commitments
There are probably posters on here that are around 300 pounds. Does not mean we would be a good recruit.
Norfolk State has 9 offensive lineman over 290 pounds.
I've had the same perception/concerns about this year's recruits, but I plan to give it some time. It appears to me the schools we've beaten out on our overall recruits are not nearly as strong as the last 6 years. I think the last few years our recruiting classes have been rated high nationally. That we had so many recruits this year and such a poor third partly rating certainly fits my perception/concern.
I sense we're sliding back to the pack, but we'll see next fall.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - DukeQuin - 02-05-2020 11:58 AM
If this ranking had came back with us #1 or #2, we'd be excited.
This rating as of 1/27 has us #1 in the conference, and I feel pretty good about the work Hero Sports does. I don't know as much about 247Sports.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020-recruiting-caa-colonial-team-player-rankings-ajaj
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMad03 - 02-05-2020 12:17 PM
(02-05-2020 11:58 AM)DukeQuin Wrote: If this ranking had came back with us #1 or #2, we'd be excited.
This rating as of 1/27 has us #1 in the conference, and I feel pretty good about the work Hero Sports does. I don't know as much about 247Sports.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020-recruiting-caa-colonial-team-player-rankings-ajaj
It doesn't matter if we were first or last. They all use a system that has no bearing on actual results.
There's so many factors in play that are impossible to predict. The only true way to tell how good/bad a class is to evaluate them years later when they've actually been college football players.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMURocks - 02-05-2020 12:28 PM
(02-05-2020 12:17 PM)JMad03 Wrote:(02-05-2020 11:58 AM)DukeQuin Wrote: If this ranking had came back with us #1 or #2, we'd be excited.
This rating as of 1/27 has us #1 in the conference, and I feel pretty good about the work Hero Sports does. I don't know as much about 247Sports.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020-recruiting-caa-colonial-team-player-rankings-ajaj
It doesn't matter if we were first or last. They all use a system that has no bearing on actual results.
There's so many factors in play that are impossible to predict. The only true way to tell how good/bad a class is to evaluate them years later when they've actually been college football players.
In the case of Polk and Palmer it was easy to evaluate them the first year on the field, and they were both homeruns brought in very late. To me that was just a taste of what we are going to see from Cig’s classes. Those 300 pounders we landed won’t be out of shape for long with our staff if they are now, and I suspect many of these are just “sleepers” that other big programs missed. Think we are finding a few Dylan Stapleton types that are hidden talent, and that’s not a bad thing.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JacksonHall - 02-05-2020 01:18 PM
The recruiting rankings are BS. What happens on the field is all that matters. Fortunately we have good coaching, which is much more than we can say about men's basketball.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMU08 - 02-05-2020 01:50 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, there is no way to determine if a class is actually good ever. Evaluating a player after accomplishments ignores factors in coaching, strength & conditioning, playcalling, etc. Some player could be a bust for W&M and in if they had gone to JMU been All American or vice versa. Is that a good recruit? I'll say I don't think our MBB recruiting has been bad, but based on the record, you would think so right?
As for the 247 fans that think it actually is saying something real, let's break down our 247 "rankings".
2017 - 2nd place, 9 commits, 67.71 points (Villanova 1st with 10 commits, 73.85 points.)
2018 - 1st place, 3 commits, 27.23 points (Villanova 2nd with 2 commits, 16.91 points.)
2019 - 1st place, 7 commits, 70.12 points (UD 2nd with 4 commits, 35.61 points)
2020 - 4th place, 4 commits, 35.08 points (Villanova 1st with 7 commits, 69.37 points)
If you look at those half rankings and believe 247 has put forth honest effort, then there's no convincing you otherwise. All I see is a bunch of laziness, missing data, and a pretty shite composite algorithm.
Herosports is the only ranking for FCS and maybe all of college football that at leasts puts forth honest effort, even if accuracy is still impossible to gauge.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - DukeThaDawg - 02-05-2020 02:18 PM
(02-05-2020 01:50 PM)JMU08 Wrote: Just to play devil's advocate, there is no way to determine if a class is actually good ever. Evaluating a player after accomplishments ignores factors in coaching, strength & conditioning, playcalling, etc. Some player could be a bust for W&M and in if they had gone to JMU been All American or vice versa. Is that a good recruit? I'll say I don't think our MBB recruiting has been bad, but based on the record, you would think so right?Herosports probably does the best job in actually tracking/comparing FCS recruiting classes. Not that it's a perfect system, but it makes some sense at least.
As for the 247 fans that think it actually is saying something real, let's break down our 247 "rankings".
2017 - 2nd place, 9 commits, 67.71 points (Villanova 1st with 10 commits, 73.85 points.)
2018 - 1st place, 3 commits, 27.23 points (Villanova 2nd with 2 commits, 16.91 points.)
2019 - 1st place, 7 commits, 70.12 points (UD 2nd with 4 commits, 35.61 points)
2020 - 4th place, 4 commits, 35.08 points (Villanova 1st with 7 commits, 69.37 points)
If you look at those half rankings and believe 247 has put forth honest effort, then there's no convincing you otherwise. All I see is a bunch of laziness, missing data, and a pretty shite composite algorithm.
Herosports is the only ranking for FCS and maybe all of college football that at leasts puts forth honest effort, even if accuracy is still impossible to gauge.
The system is based on school offers, NOT 247Sports or Rivals. Every level of D-1 (P5, G5, FCS) has a particular tiered point total.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020...kings-ajaj
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMU08 - 02-05-2020 02:24 PM
(02-05-2020 02:18 PM)DukeThaDawg Wrote:(02-05-2020 01:50 PM)JMU08 Wrote: Just to play devil's advocate, there is no way to determine if a class is actually good ever. Evaluating a player after accomplishments ignores factors in coaching, strength & conditioning, playcalling, etc. Some player could be a bust for W&M and in if they had gone to JMU been All American or vice versa. Is that a good recruit? I'll say I don't think our MBB recruiting has been bad, but based on the record, you would think so right?Herosports probably does the best job in actually tracking/comparing FCS recruiting classes. Not that it's a perfect system, but it makes some sense at least.
As for the 247 fans that think it actually is saying something real, let's break down our 247 "rankings".
2017 - 2nd place, 9 commits, 67.71 points (Villanova 1st with 10 commits, 73.85 points.)
2018 - 1st place, 3 commits, 27.23 points (Villanova 2nd with 2 commits, 16.91 points.)
2019 - 1st place, 7 commits, 70.12 points (UD 2nd with 4 commits, 35.61 points)
2020 - 4th place, 4 commits, 35.08 points (Villanova 1st with 7 commits, 69.37 points)
If you look at those half rankings and believe 247 has put forth honest effort, then there's no convincing you otherwise. All I see is a bunch of laziness, missing data, and a pretty shite composite algorithm.
Herosports is the only ranking for FCS and maybe all of college football that at leasts puts forth honest effort, even if accuracy is still impossible to gauge.
The system is based on school offers, NOT 247Sports or Rivals. Every level of D-1 (P5, G5, FCS) has a particular tiered point total.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020...kings-ajaj
... Did you just steal half my post from here and use it to reply to me? It's like I'm talking to myself. I never said herosports was derived from 247 or rivals... did you think I did?
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMUTrippster - 02-05-2020 03:03 PM
(02-05-2020 01:18 PM)JacksonHall Wrote: The recruiting rankings are BS. What happens on the field is all that matters. Fortunately we have good coaching, which is much more than we can say about men's basketball.
+1 - As long as the coaching is there who cares how the class is rated based on HIGH SCHOOL performance. Get those kids in the weight room and with quality coaching and we will be just fine.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - AssyrianDuke - 02-05-2020 03:08 PM
Ranking recruiting classes on signing day is like grading a draft the following Monday. It is entirely speculative. Remember when Washington got an A for the 2019 draft? Their only real contributors were McLaurin and Haskins, and Haskins struggled mightily. Would you give them an A because they found a good WR and a shaky QB? No, you grade them an A because they drafted Jimmy Moreland! But seriously, you wouldn't grade the draft until a few years in. Similarly, don't worry about the stars or the "flashiness" of a recruiting class. Do you think HC3 does anything flashy?
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - Dukes84 - 02-05-2020 03:10 PM
(02-05-2020 11:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: Cig came in last year and got Polk and Palmer late, two of the bigger impact players on last years squad. He also kept almost the entire recruiting class intact which is rare with a coaching change. I think he has somewhat of an idea what he's doing.
Nobody has brought up the 4 OL we brought in that are all right around 300lbs. Some very good defensive backs and a QB that seems to have the potential to lead the team in future years. Not sure what other people want. A 3 star recruit is a big pickup for any FCS school and we got a handful of them prior to their stars being lowered after commitments
Cig also added Taurus Jones to Houston's class in the early signing period and lost one guy (to East Carolina, a defensive lineman from Richmond). Jones had 15 offers, including from App State, ODU and Charlotte.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - DukeThaDawg - 02-05-2020 04:29 PM
(02-05-2020 02:24 PM)JMU08 Wrote:(02-05-2020 02:18 PM)DukeThaDawg Wrote:(02-05-2020 01:50 PM)JMU08 Wrote: Just to play devil's advocate, there is no way to determine if a class is actually good ever. Evaluating a player after accomplishments ignores factors in coaching, strength & conditioning, playcalling, etc. Some player could be a bust for W&M and in if they had gone to JMU been All American or vice versa. Is that a good recruit? I'll say I don't think our MBB recruiting has been bad, but based on the record, you would think so right?Herosports probably does the best job in actually tracking/comparing FCS recruiting classes. Not that it's a perfect system, but it makes some sense at least.
As for the 247 fans that think it actually is saying something real, let's break down our 247 "rankings".
2017 - 2nd place, 9 commits, 67.71 points (Villanova 1st with 10 commits, 73.85 points.)
2018 - 1st place, 3 commits, 27.23 points (Villanova 2nd with 2 commits, 16.91 points.)
2019 - 1st place, 7 commits, 70.12 points (UD 2nd with 4 commits, 35.61 points)
2020 - 4th place, 4 commits, 35.08 points (Villanova 1st with 7 commits, 69.37 points)
If you look at those half rankings and believe 247 has put forth honest effort, then there's no convincing you otherwise. All I see is a bunch of laziness, missing data, and a pretty shite composite algorithm.
Herosports is the only ranking for FCS and maybe all of college football that at leasts puts forth honest effort, even if accuracy is still impossible to gauge.
The system is based on school offers, NOT 247Sports or Rivals. Every level of D-1 (P5, G5, FCS) has a particular tiered point total.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020...kings-ajaj
... Did you just steal half my post from here and use it to reply to me? It's like I'm talking to myself. I never said herosports was derived from 247 or rivals... did you think I did?
Wow---Talk about a persecution complex---one that blinds you so deeply that it irreparably impedes your abilities of reading comprehension.
I posted your half post from another thread to reinforce your point!!! I was trying to piggyback off it to back up your point. And felt it would be useful for this thread to have the info posted from the other thread.
If you read any of my other posts, you would see how fraudulent I believe the 247 ranking to be. They are a joke, they rank kids ONLY based off the offers they have---NOT on any type of film evaluation of their talent...As the HEROSPORTS ranking prove. 247 will immediately upgrade kids or actually create a page for them based off an offer.
I was agreeing with you!!! I was posting more evidence to prove your point!!!! The more the Herosports link can be spead---THE BETTER!!!
But you are obviously so wrapped up in your own personal drama...maybe it's a lack of self esteem---or a severe persecution complex---or just an inability to comprehend what you read.
Once again, sorry---dare I should try to back up your point. Lighten up a little, it's good for your health
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - JMU08 - 02-05-2020 04:37 PM
(02-05-2020 04:29 PM)DukeThaDawg Wrote:(02-05-2020 02:24 PM)JMU08 Wrote:(02-05-2020 02:18 PM)DukeThaDawg Wrote:(02-05-2020 01:50 PM)JMU08 Wrote: Just to play devil's advocate, there is no way to determine if a class is actually good ever. Evaluating a player after accomplishments ignores factors in coaching, strength & conditioning, playcalling, etc. Some player could be a bust for W&M and in if they had gone to JMU been All American or vice versa. Is that a good recruit? I'll say I don't think our MBB recruiting has been bad, but based on the record, you would think so right?Herosports probably does the best job in actually tracking/comparing FCS recruiting classes. Not that it's a perfect system, but it makes some sense at least.
As for the 247 fans that think it actually is saying something real, let's break down our 247 "rankings".
2017 - 2nd place, 9 commits, 67.71 points (Villanova 1st with 10 commits, 73.85 points.)
2018 - 1st place, 3 commits, 27.23 points (Villanova 2nd with 2 commits, 16.91 points.)
2019 - 1st place, 7 commits, 70.12 points (UD 2nd with 4 commits, 35.61 points)
2020 - 4th place, 4 commits, 35.08 points (Villanova 1st with 7 commits, 69.37 points)
If you look at those half rankings and believe 247 has put forth honest effort, then there's no convincing you otherwise. All I see is a bunch of laziness, missing data, and a pretty shite composite algorithm.
Herosports is the only ranking for FCS and maybe all of college football that at leasts puts forth honest effort, even if accuracy is still impossible to gauge.
The system is based on school offers, NOT 247Sports or Rivals. Every level of D-1 (P5, G5, FCS) has a particular tiered point total.
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020...kings-ajaj
... Did you just steal half my post from here and use it to reply to me? It's like I'm talking to myself. I never said herosports was derived from 247 or rivals... did you think I did?
Wow---Talk about a persecution complex---one that blinds you so deeply that it irreparably impedes your abilities of reading comprehension.
I posted your half post from another thread to reinforce your point!!! I was trying to piggyback off it to back up your point. And felt it would be useful for this thread to have the info posted from the other thread.
If you read any of my other posts, you would see how fraudulent I believe the 247 ranking to be. They are a joke, they rank kids ONLY based off the offers they have---NOT on any type of film evaluation of their talent...As the HEROSPORTS ranking prove. 247 will immediately upgrade kids or actually create a page for them based off an offer.
I was agreeing with you!!! I was posting more evidence to prove your point!!!! The more the Herosports link can be spead---THE BETTER!!!
But you are obviously so wrapped up in your own personal drama...maybe it's a lack of self esteem---or a severe persecution complex---or just an inability to comprehend what you read.
Once again, sorry---dare I should try to back up your point. Lighten up a little, it's good for your health
uh, I don't think I'm the one that needs to lighten up here, but good to know. Sorry I mistook your post. I really couldn't understand what you were trying to say, hence using the question mark and ellipses to try and point out my confusion.
RE: I’m concerned with Cig’s recruiting... - fishingduke12 - 02-05-2020 07:14 PM
(02-05-2020 11:57 AM)Dukester Wrote:(02-05-2020 11:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: Cig came in last year and got Polk and Palmer late, two of the bigger impact players on last years squad. He also kept almost the entire recruiting class intact which is rare with a coaching change. I think he has somewhat of an idea what he's doing.
Nobody has brought up the 4 OL we brought in that are all right around 300lbs. Some very good defensive backs and a QB that seems to have the potential to lead the team in future years. Not sure what other people want. A 3 star recruit is a big pickup for any FCS school and we got a handful of them prior to their stars being lowered after commitments
There are probably posters on here that are around 300 pounds. Does not mean we would be a good recruit.
Norfolk State has 9 offensive lineman over 290 pounds.
I've had the same perception/concerns about this year's recruits, but I plan to give it some time. It appears to me the schools we've beaten out on our overall recruits are not nearly as strong as the last 6 years. I think the last few years our recruiting classes have been rated high nationally. That we had so many recruits this year and such a poor third partly rating certainly fits my perception/concern.
I sense we're sliding back to the pack, but we'll see next fall.
Pretty confident the 300lb posters havent won multiple awards in their respective high school conferences
Many of the recruits in the class were DPOY or similar in their areas which I see has a huge plus