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+---- Thread: AAC Waiver Approved (/thread-885396.html)
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - Frank the Tank - 06-01-2021 10:23 AM
(06-01-2021 10:07 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:(06-01-2021 09:43 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(06-01-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(06-01-2021 08:42 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:(06-01-2021 08:34 AM)solohawks Wrote: No clue
Suprised though any potential Western expansion might not involve Air Force
I would go to 16 and add Air Force and UNLV
5 MWC schools + Tulsa + Wichita/Navy + SMU would be a solid Western bloc with travel completely minimized
If Air Force is willing to do football only you could do Gonzaga/Air Force.
Right. Air Force is a considerably more valuable brand than either San Diego St or Colorado St. The Falcons have a national fan base.
Eh, even though a fan base is national doesn't necessarily mean it is large. It just means it is spread out. I would say both those schools are brand-equal to Air Force.
I've got to believe that this AAC expansion scenario is football-only for everyone involved.
I think Colorado St would get extended full membership - and wouldn’t jump without it.
I believe that it depends on the basketball options for Colorado State.
If the only basketball option is the Big West, then I believe that you're correct.
If the WCC is an option, then I think that changes things. I know that there has been a lot of focus on the WCC being a private-only league, but Gonzaga has already looked into leaving once and everything that they've pushed for over the past couple of years is for increased SOS come hell or high water. San Diego State is arguably the single best Western basketball program (outside of Gonzaga) that isn't in a P5 conference and that might be leverage for Gonzaga to push for a change on that front.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - ken d - 06-01-2021 10:28 AM
(06-01-2021 10:17 AM)schmolik Wrote: Ironically Army left and then Navy joined a conference with many of the same teams.
If I were in the AAC, I wouldn't mind seeing both Army and Navy as independents with each of them contracting to play five games a year against the AAC. Every league team would play one or the other every year as an OOC game.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - ken d - 06-01-2021 10:45 AM
(06-01-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(06-01-2021 08:42 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:(06-01-2021 08:34 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 08:24 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I wonder what the reasoning was for its swift removal.
No clue
Suprised though any potential Western expansion might not involve Air Force
I would go to 16 and add Air Force and UNLV
5 MWC schools + Tulsa + Wichita/Navy + SMU would be a solid Western bloc with travel completely minimized
If Air Force is willing to do football only you could do Gonzaga/Air Force.
Right. Air Force is a considerably more valuable brand than either San Diego St or Colorado St. The Falcons have a national fan base.
Eh, even though a fan base is national doesn't necessarily mean it is large. It just means it is spread out. I would say both those schools are brand-equal to Air Force.
I'm sure Colorado State does as well in the Fort Collins market.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - Fighting Muskie - 06-01-2021 10:46 AM
Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - mturn017 - 06-01-2021 10:52 AM
(06-01-2021 09:31 AM)BraveKnight Wrote: This rumor actually might be true, as usffan noted on the AAC board, “A Jersey Guy” is very connected and broke that the C7 schools would break from the Big East right before they did.
It seems pretty clear the MWC is the avenue they are pursuing. Whether it happens is a different story.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - solohawks - 06-01-2021 10:59 AM
(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
If I'm the MWC and I lose 3, I take NMSU as football only and have 8 allsports and 10 for football.
Unless TV demands more than 10 for football, no need to overexpand
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - Frank the Tank - 06-01-2021 11:13 AM
(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
No reason at all to consider FCS schools if you're in the MWC position.
The four Texas-based C-USA schools (Rice, UTEP, UTSA and UNT) are the most attractive on top of being geographically palatable. I'm a bit biased toward taking the top academic school when one program isn't clearly above the others (particularly when it's directly located in a large market), so Rice would be my top pick if I was running the MWC. After that, it's a question of whether to add 2 more or stay at 10.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - Side.Show.Joe - 06-01-2021 11:28 AM
(06-01-2021 07:52 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:
Can the AAC pull it off this time? Probably not. But, if they do, the MWC will be in a tough spot. The remaining teams will have a hard time finding quality programs to back fill those spots. There just wouldn't be enough quality left in the MWC to lure three decent programs west. UTEP, Texas State, and NMSU are the only options that might consider being in this lineup. A new MWC might look like this...
WEST
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada
UNLV
San Jose State
Utah State
MOUNTAIN
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP
NMSU
Texas State
This just doesn't look like a very good conference.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - GoldenWarrior11 - 06-01-2021 11:28 AM
If the AAC can pull in Boise State (Full Member) by grabbing Air Force and Colorado State (as Full Members), it would make much more sense long-term rather than adding Boise (Football-only), San Diego State (Football-only) and Colorado State (Football-only). I'm sorry, but San Diego State Football does not move the needle enough to warrant creating a coast-to-coast conference, much less creating another island geographic-wise. At least by "building a bridge" to Boise State (in Colorado State/Air Force), you are getting access to a substantial media market (Denver) and getting a national brand (in Air Force). Colorado State and Air Force are very much tied at the hip and will not go anywhere without the other. Those two can be utilized as travel partners with Boise, to help a little bit with travel, IMO.
With those three, you are now up to 14 full members with two service academies. If you then wanted to make the push to 16, then you could look at BYU and Army as football-only members. That is the play I would go for if I were the AAC.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - Side.Show.Joe - 06-01-2021 11:34 AM
(06-01-2021 11:13 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
No reason at all to consider FCS schools if you're in the MWC position.
The four Texas-based C-USA schools (Rice, UTEP, UTSA and UNT) are the most attractive on top of being geographically palatable. I'm a bit biased toward taking the top academic school when one program isn't clearly above the others (particularly when it's directly located in a large market), so Rice would be my top pick if I was running the MWC. After that, it's a question of whether to add 2 more or stay at 10.
A MWC without Boise, San Diego State, and Colorado State is much less attractive to the Texas 4. Should the MWC lose Boise, SDSU, and CSU, their conference strength and media deal will be significantly reduced. UTEP might still be interested, but Rice, North Texas, and UTSA would probably be better off staying in C-USA.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - GreenBison - 06-01-2021 11:36 AM
(05-31-2021 03:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:(05-31-2021 03:10 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: So if the AAC adds UAB, the most likely replacement #12, what does CUSA do?
Texas St, imo. That’s the one SBC team who actually benefits by moving to CUSA with a Texas-5/LT/USM division and a ready-made rivalry with UTSA. Road games alternating between San Antonio/El Paso and Houston/Denton each year.
No way the other CUSA Presidents approve another Texas School. CUSA will sit at 13 more than likely.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - PicksUp - 06-01-2021 11:42 AM
(06-01-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
If I'm the MWC and I lose 3, I take NMSU as football only and have 8 allsports and 10 for football.
Unless TV demands more than 10 for football, no need to overexpand
NMSU and UTEP football offer absolutely nothing to the MW. Nothing. The only valuable program is NMSU basketball.
UTEP would clearly be interested in the MW. I dont know if they offer anything.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - Side.Show.Joe - 06-01-2021 11:43 AM
(06-01-2021 11:36 AM)GreenBison Wrote:(05-31-2021 03:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:(05-31-2021 03:10 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: So if the AAC adds UAB, the most likely replacement #12, what does CUSA do?
Texas St, imo. That’s the one SBC team who actually benefits by moving to CUSA with a Texas-5/LT/USM division and a ready-made rivalry with UTSA. Road games alternating between San Antonio/El Paso and Houston/Denton each year.
No way the other CUSA Presidents approve another Texas School. CUSA will sit at 13 more than likely.
A agree, and will take it a step further... I don't think our presidents are in any mood to add anyone from anywhere should we lose a member or two.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - solohawks - 06-01-2021 11:53 AM
(06-01-2021 11:42 AM)PicksUp Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
If I'm the MWC and I lose 3, I take NMSU as football only and have 8 allsports and 10 for football.
Unless TV demands more than 10 for football, no need to overexpand
NMSU and UTEP football offer absolutely nothing to the MW. Nothing. The only valuable program is NMSU basketball.
UTEP would clearly be interested in the MW. I dont know if they offer anything.
My thinking is 10 is the Hotspot for CFP money right now. So go 10 for football. NMSU would take football only (UTEP would not) and Hawaii already is football only. No need to go more than 8 as with all sports at this time
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - BraveKnight - 06-01-2021 12:01 PM
(06-01-2021 11:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:NMSU basketball is actually worth something though, you might as well add them all sports if you’re going to add them at all.(06-01-2021 11:42 AM)PicksUp Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
If I'm the MWC and I lose 3, I take NMSU as football only and have 8 allsports and 10 for football.
Unless TV demands more than 10 for football, no need to overexpand
NMSU and UTEP football offer absolutely nothing to the MW. Nothing. The only valuable program is NMSU basketball.
UTEP would clearly be interested in the MW. I dont know if they offer anything.
My thinking is 10 is the Hotspot for CFP money right now. So go 10 for football. NMSU would take football only (UTEP would not) and Hawaii already is football only. No need to go more than 8 as with all sports at this time
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - IWokeUpLikeThis - 06-01-2021 12:08 PM
(06-01-2021 11:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 11:42 AM)PicksUp Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
If I'm the MWC and I lose 3, I take NMSU as football only and have 8 allsports and 10 for football.
Unless TV demands more than 10 for football, no need to overexpand
NMSU and UTEP football offer absolutely nothing to the MW. Nothing. The only valuable program is NMSU basketball.
UTEP would clearly be interested in the MW. I dont know if they offer anything.
My thinking is 10 is the Hotspot for CFP money right now. So go 10 for football. NMSU would take football only (UTEP would not) and Hawaii already is football only. No need to go more than 8 as with all sports at this time
There is a huge need to go beyond 8. Not just media inventory but MWC would be the only non-Ivy top-25 league as low as 8 members. That impacts scheduling as instead of a H&H with a solid NMSU program, you’re now buying an additional 2 low-rung D1s or a D2 instead.
I think it’s more likely you’d see UTEP (full) and NMSU (non-FB) for an even 10/10.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - solohawks - 06-01-2021 12:19 PM
(06-01-2021 12:08 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:(06-01-2021 11:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 11:42 AM)PicksUp Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 10:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: Let’s speculate here—if this is true, what is the MWC’s move?
NMSU or UTEP for a 10th?
Do they dig deeper into Texas?
Is there an FCS candidate they’d rather bring up?
If I'm the MWC and I lose 3, I take NMSU as football only and have 8 allsports and 10 for football.
Unless TV demands more than 10 for football, no need to overexpand
NMSU and UTEP football offer absolutely nothing to the MW. Nothing. The only valuable program is NMSU basketball.
UTEP would clearly be interested in the MW. I dont know if they offer anything.
My thinking is 10 is the Hotspot for CFP money right now. So go 10 for football. NMSU would take football only (UTEP would not) and Hawaii already is football only. No need to go more than 8 as with all sports at this time
There is a huge need to go beyond 8. Not just media inventory but MWC would be the only non-Ivy top-25 league as low as 8 members. That impacts scheduling as instead of a H&H with a solid NMSU program, you’re now buying an additional 2 low-rung D1s or a D2 instead.
I think it’s more likely you’d see UTEP (full) and NMSU (non-FB) for an even 10/10.
And drop Hawaii?
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - bill dazzle - 06-01-2021 12:27 PM
(06-01-2021 09:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 09:05 AM)bill dazzle Wrote: I'm on record on this board as wanting the AAC to add Boise, San Diego State and one other other MWC program (preferably either Air Force or Colorado State). I see the negatives to doing so but I also feel many positives would unfold.
And, as I've noted, if I'm an official at any MWC league, I would NOT want my football program in the AAC and all other sports in some other league. Impractical. Navy can do it. But Navy is a different beast and has a strong option (the Patriot League).
Air Force in the Summit League with Denver wouldnt be completely out of reality
True. But I would still not want that if I'm an Air Force official or fan.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - BraveKnight - 06-01-2021 12:32 PM
(06-01-2021 12:27 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:It might actually be better for them, seeing as they aren’t too competitive in the MWC in basketball, and a step down in conference might improve their chances of going to the NCAA tourney.(06-01-2021 09:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 09:05 AM)bill dazzle Wrote: I'm on record on this board as wanting the AAC to add Boise, San Diego State and one other other MWC program (preferably either Air Force or Colorado State). I see the negatives to doing so but I also feel many positives would unfold.
And, as I've noted, if I'm an official at any MWC league, I would NOT want my football program in the AAC and all other sports in some other league. Impractical. Navy can do it. But Navy is a different beast and has a strong option (the Patriot League).
Air Force in the Summit League with Denver wouldnt be completely out of reality
True. But I would still not want that if I'm an Air Force official or fan.
RE: AAC Waiver Approved - bill dazzle - 06-01-2021 12:38 PM
(06-01-2021 12:32 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:(06-01-2021 12:27 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:It might actually be better for them, seeing as they aren’t too competitive in the MWC in basketball, and a step down in conference might improve their chances of going to the NCAA tourney.(06-01-2021 09:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:(06-01-2021 09:05 AM)bill dazzle Wrote: I'm on record on this board as wanting the AAC to add Boise, San Diego State and one other other MWC program (preferably either Air Force or Colorado State). I see the negatives to doing so but I also feel many positives would unfold.
And, as I've noted, if I'm an official at any MWC league, I would NOT want my football program in the AAC and all other sports in some other league. Impractical. Navy can do it. But Navy is a different beast and has a strong option (the Patriot League).
Air Force in the Summit League with Denver wouldnt be completely out of reality
True. But I would still not want that if I'm an Air Force official or fan.
The Air Force Academy is a very prestigious institution that wants to be aligned with as many other prestigious institutions as possible. I struggle to see them "wanting" to be in the Summit, WAC or WCC (though each of those offers various positives).
Some fans of AAC programs on this board take the attitude "Boise should want to place its other sports in the (fill in the blank) league for the 'honor' of being a football member of the AAC."
Hypothetically, if the roles were reversed, and it was their school facing such a scenario (say the MWC is stronger than the AAC in football and the MWC wants Houston in football only and is asking UofH to put its other sports in the, say, Southland) ... we know the reaction from Cougar fans.