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+----- Thread: 2019-2022 NFL Regular Season (/thread-882437.html)
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawk Nation 08 - 09-30-2019 11:16 PM
(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
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Just telling you the facts. No QB with a statistical profile like his in college has ever succeeded in the pros. Don’t shoot the messenger.
His career % is now 55 so unless he duplicates those 65 % days and cuts down on the turnovers he’s not going to prove he’s made improvements.
2019 NFL Regular Season - B_Hawk06 - 09-30-2019 11:17 PM
(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
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Not to help 08 out here, but in all fairness he he said sub 60% completion rate in college.
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RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawkhoops - 10-01-2019 08:04 AM
(09-30-2019 11:16 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:WRONG.... I give you Brett Farve:(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
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Just telling you the facts. No QB with a statistical profile like his in college has ever succeeded in the pros. Don’t shoot the messenger.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html
I'm disappointed in you 08, i didn't have to dig very far to find one with sub 60% that had a HOF career.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawkhoops - 10-01-2019 08:07 AM
Exhibit B: Joe Montana: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-montana-1.html
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawk Nation 08 - 10-01-2019 08:08 AM
(10-01-2019 08:04 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(09-30-2019 11:16 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:WRONG.... I give you Brett Farve:(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just telling you the facts. No QB with a statistical profile like his in college has ever succeeded in the pros. Don’t shoot the messenger.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html
I'm disappointed in you 08, i didn't have to dig very far to find one.
Nice work, I stand corrected.
But yikes, you had to go all the way back to 1990 to find one? The game of football in 1991 isn't close to resembling the way the game is played today.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawkhoops - 10-01-2019 08:11 AM
(10-01-2019 08:08 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:I literally looked at 7 guys, the first 7 QBs that popped in my head. Brady, Mahomes, Montana, Young, Rivers, Wilson Farve. 2 HOF'ers were sub 60%(10-01-2019 08:04 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(09-30-2019 11:16 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:WRONG.... I give you Brett Farve:(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just telling you the facts. No QB with a statistical profile like his in college has ever succeeded in the pros. Don’t shoot the messenger.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html
I'm disappointed in you 08, i didn't have to dig very far to find one.
Nice work, I stand corrected.
But yikes, you had to go all the way back to 1990 to find one? The game of football in 1991 isn't close to resembling the way the game is played today.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawk Nation 08 - 10-01-2019 08:22 AM
(10-01-2019 08:11 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: I literally looked at 7 guys, the first 7 QBs that popped in my head. Brady, Mahomes, Montana, Young, Rivers, Wilson Farve. 2 HOF'ers were sub 60%
Fair enough.
I'll approach this another way. FootballOutsiders.com came up with a tool called QBase that evaluates QB prospects, primarily using two predictive elements: Number of college starts and college stats. And they've done fairly well at predicting how well QB's would do at the next level using this model, certainly better than any other models I've seen.
For instance, this was their evaluation of the 2018 draft class prior to the draft:
1. Baker Mayfield (1480 QBASE)
2. Lamar Jackson (656 QBASE)
3. Josh Rosen (623 QBASE)
4. Sam Darnold (412 QBASE)
5. Mason Rudolph (343 QBASE)
6. Luke Falk (277 QBASE)
7. Kyle Lauletta (273 QBASE)
8. Josh Allen (-83 QBASE)
Pretty spot on so far, no? Mayfield had some stumbles early in this season but overall looks like a great prospect. Lamar Jackson, who was questioned last year, has busted out to a great start in year 2.
As you can see, they hated Josh Allen.
Here's how they evaluated the 2017 class:
1. Pat Mahomes (656)
2. Mitchell Trubisky (435)
3. Joshua Dobbs (419)
4. Davis Webb (286)
5. DeShaun Watson (261)
6. Brad Kaaya (6)
7. DeShone Kizer (-30)
8. Nathan Peterman (-245)
Almost no one had Mahomes as their # 1 QB in the 2017 class. But QBase did. Granted, they whiffed on Watson. Their model had him low on the list because he was surrounded by great talent at Clemson. No model is perfect. Given the complexity of the QB position, its very hard to get every call correct. On the other hand, they were spot on regarding Peterman, who has been an awful pro.
Just food for thought.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - B_Hawk06 - 10-01-2019 09:42 AM
(10-01-2019 08:08 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 08:04 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(09-30-2019 11:16 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:WRONG.... I give you Brett Farve:(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just telling you the facts. No QB with a statistical profile like his in college has ever succeeded in the pros. Don’t shoot the messenger.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html
I'm disappointed in you 08, i didn't have to dig very far to find one.
Nice work, I stand corrected.
But yikes, you had to go all the way back to 1990 to find one? The game of football in 1991 isn't close to resembling the way the game is played today.
You're right. There's a ton more rules to protect QBs... when they're not running like backs. lol
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - SEA33HAWK - 10-01-2019 10:42 AM
(10-01-2019 09:42 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:(10-01-2019 08:08 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 08:04 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(09-30-2019 11:16 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:WRONG.... I give you Brett Farve:(09-30-2019 07:06 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: 08 you continued to harp on his sub 60 yet every game this year except Sunday he was closer to 65. I really find it hard how you can flat out say that a guy that’s shown promise and improvement from year 1 can’t be a franchise qb. Only 1 time in Brady’s first 6 years was he closer to 65% than 60.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just telling you the facts. No QB with a statistical profile like his in college has ever succeeded in the pros. Don’t shoot the messenger.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html
I'm disappointed in you 08, i didn't have to dig very far to find one.
Nice work, I stand corrected.
But yikes, you had to go all the way back to 1990 to find one? The game of football in 1991 isn't close to resembling the way the game is played today.
You're right. There's a ton more rules to protect QBs... when they're not running like backs. lol
Stats and scientific data works great on the whole. But there have been a few that didn't meet the requirements, but were winners. The two most prominent that come to my mind are Doug Flutie and Tim Tebo. Flutie was pushed out to the CFL because of being "too short". And Tebow who threw ugly passes. They both won in spite of their short comings. Flutie eventually made it back to the NFL. While Tebow chose other options.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawk Nation 08 - 10-01-2019 11:04 AM
(10-01-2019 10:42 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: Stats and scientific data works great on the whole. But there have been a few that didn't meet the requirements, but were winners. The two most prominent that come to my mind are Doug Flutie and Tim Tebo. Flutie was pushed out to the CFL because of being "too short". And Tebow who threw ugly passes. They both won in spite of their short comings. Flutie eventually made it back to the NFL. While Tebow chose other options.
Flutie was a good QB. Tebow was far from it and doesn't belong in the same category. The Broncos had to re-format their offense entirely to make things work with Tebow under Center. They knew what he was and what he wasn't, and got rid of him even after making the playoffs with Tebow at QB.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawkhoops - 10-01-2019 11:19 AM
(10-01-2019 11:04 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 10:42 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: Stats and scientific data works great on the whole. But there have been a few that didn't meet the requirements, but were winners. The two most prominent that come to my mind are Doug Flutie and Tim Tebo. Flutie was pushed out to the CFL because of being "too short". And Tebow who threw ugly passes. They both won in spite of their short comings. Flutie eventually made it back to the NFL. While Tebow chose other options.
Flutie was a good QB. Tebow was far from it and doesn't belong in the same category. The Broncos had to re-format their offense entirely to make things work with Tebow under Center. They knew what he was and what he wasn't, and got rid of him even after making the playoffs with Tebow at QB.
Tebow was sub 50%, Crazy to think about that, SUB 50%!
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - B_Hawk06 - 10-01-2019 12:24 PM
(10-01-2019 11:04 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 10:42 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: Stats and scientific data works great on the whole. But there have been a few that didn't meet the requirements, but were winners. The two most prominent that come to my mind are Doug Flutie and Tim Tebo. Flutie was pushed out to the CFL because of being "too short". And Tebow who threw ugly passes. They both won in spite of their short comings. Flutie eventually made it back to the NFL. While Tebow chose other options.
Flutie was a good QB. Tebow was far from it and doesn't belong in the same category. The Broncos had to re-format their offense entirely to make things work with Tebow under Center. They knew what he was and what he wasn't, and got rid of him even after making the playoffs with Tebow at QB.
I'm not defending Tebow here, because I wouldn't want him under center of my team either.
However, I bolded that statement for you to take another objective look at. What team doesn't involve a formatted or re-formatted system put in place for their QB? It's the whole reason so many teams when Kaepernick (aside from the circus he created for himself) wasn't/still isn't able to just sign with any NFL team. It's the same reason Michael Vick didn't just play for any team. It's the same reason Peyton, Eli, Rivers, Brady, etc wouldn't work in a system that utilizes QBs like those that run and play so much outside of the pocket like Mahomes, Mayfield, Watson, or Lamar Jackson.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - SEA33HAWK - 10-01-2019 12:40 PM
My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawkhoops - 10-01-2019 12:43 PM
(10-01-2019 12:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - SEA33HAWK - 10-01-2019 12:46 PM
(10-01-2019 12:43 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
Namath was a career 50% passer with a 65.5 QBR. He threw 173 TDs to 220 INTs.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawkhoops - 10-01-2019 12:50 PM
(10-01-2019 12:46 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:I wonder how many inappropriate sexual advances he had in there. LOL(10-01-2019 12:43 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
Namath was a career 50% passer with a 65.5 QBR. He threw 173 TDs to 220 INTs.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawk Nation 08 - 10-01-2019 01:08 PM
(10-01-2019 12:46 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:43 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
Namath was a career 50% passer with a 65.5 QBR. He threw 173 TDs to 220 INTs.
Again, completely different game. Throws were pretty much all deep bombs and DB’s could basically mug the receivers.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - SEA33HAWK - 10-01-2019 02:52 PM
(10-01-2019 01:08 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:46 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:43 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
Namath was a career 50% passer with a 65.5 QBR. He threw 173 TDs to 220 INTs.
Again, completely different game. Throws were pretty much all deep bombs and DB’s could basically mug the receivers.
Namath, except for one game, was not even one of the greatest QBs of his time. There's been a huge argument against him being a HOFer.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - Seahawk Nation 08 - 10-01-2019 04:44 PM
(10-01-2019 02:52 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:(10-01-2019 01:08 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:46 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:43 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote: My point was that Flutie and Tebow didn't fit the mold, but they still won. Bottom line for Tebow was that he was not the style of QB that Elway wanted. And still, one thing you can't take away from Tebow is he won everywhere he played, period. He found ways to win, inspite of his short comings. He just fit better as a college QB than a pro. He'll, even Joe Namath's stats were not good.
Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
Namath was a career 50% passer with a 65.5 QBR. He threw 173 TDs to 220 INTs.
Again, completely different game. Throws were pretty much all deep bombs and DB’s could basically mug the receivers.
Namath, except for one game, was not even one of the greatest QBs of his time. There's been a huge argument against him being a HOFer.
Not one person who saw Namath play or played with him would even try to argue against Namath as a HOFer. Before 1978 he was the only QB to put up a 4,000+ yard season. He was voted to 5 Pro Bowls by his peers (this was before the fans had a say). That destroys your argument that he wasn’t “one of the best of his time”. He would have gone to more if not for his bad knees. And while he’s best known for Super Bowl III, he was stuck on some awful Jets teams. Namath’s contemporaries revered him.
And as for that “1 game”, it was the most important victory in NFL history. So, yeah, it’s natural to think that was a big part of his HOF resume. That doesn’t take anything away from his career accomplishments.
RE: 2019 NFL Regular Season - SEA33HAWK - 10-01-2019 06:38 PM
(10-01-2019 04:44 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 02:52 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:(10-01-2019 01:08 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:46 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:(10-01-2019 12:43 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: Tebow might be the most accurate passer in Jets history at 75%
Namath was a career 50% passer with a 65.5 QBR. He threw 173 TDs to 220 INTs.
Again, completely different game. Throws were pretty much all deep bombs and DB’s could basically mug the receivers.
Namath, except for one game, was not even one of the greatest QBs of his time. There's been a huge argument against him being a HOFer.
Not one person who saw Namath play or played with him would even try to argue against Namath as a HOFer. Before 1978 he was the only QB to put up a 4,000+ yard season. He was voted to 5 Pro Bowls by his peers (this was before the fans had a say). That destroys your argument that he wasn’t “one of the best of his time”. He would have gone to more if not for his bad knees. And while he’s best known for Super Bowl III, he was stuck on some awful Jets teams. Namath’s contemporaries revered him.
And as for that “1 game”, it was the most important victory in NFL history. So, yeah, it’s natural to think that was a big part of his HOF resume. That doesn’t take anything away from his career accomplishments.
Yep, SB MVP who didn't throw a TD. Didn't throw a single pass in the 4th quarter. While Matt Snell ran for 121 yards. Scored their only TD. And helped set up all 3 of their field goals. But sure. Broadway Joe was the hero.
