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RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - bluesox - 06-05-2019 01:51 PM
You could make the case ESPN should shift NC state and wake to the sec and add UConn, WVU and Cincinnati to the acc with BYU or navy football only if no ND football or deregulation
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - OrangeDude - 06-05-2019 02:05 PM
(06-05-2019 01:30 PM)nole Wrote: HokieMark. These is from "Dot" at warchant. He has been on the FSU beat longer than anyone (20 plus years). Also a note from Ira S as well:
https://floridastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/accn-q-a.255082/#post-4374744
Either way, it's pretty much a guessing game at this stage. And again, no matter what the initial distribution is you have to subtract $3 million and the investment by each school to build it out.
https://floridastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/growing-conference-revenue-gap-adds-to-financial-concerns.256039/#post-4399651
Follow-up:
Don't mean to come off as the Grim Reaper with this story. But wanted to point out some of the harsh details surrounding FSU’s current financial state and the challenges ahead.
The ACC Network will undoubtedly provide a much-needed infusion of new revenue to FSU and other ACC member schools. However, some have overstated how much and how quickly that infusion will happen. A few things to consider:
* ESPN is already paying the ACC a penalty of approximately $3 million per school for failing to launch the linear network earlier. So the $29.5 million reported distribution per school will immediately drop to $26.5 million the minute the network is launched.
https://floridastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/jc-speaks-out-on-acc-and-fsu-finance-woes.256154/page-7
I speak to a lot of people "in the know" at FSU and they all tell me they are concerned about the current state of FSU's athletic finances.
https://floridastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/jc-speaks-out-on-acc-and-fsu-finance-woes.256154/page-10
Actually what Coburn said this week to the board was the opposite of "good news" re. ACC and revenues. He confirmed what I've been saying for a while that Wilcox's $8-10 million estimate for the first couple years of the ACC network is exaggerated. Looking like the revenue will be less than was told to them by the ACC.
Hopefully you aren't referring to the Boosters having to liquidate real estate to get athletics out of the red as good news.
https://floridastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/chat-recap-q-a-session-about-fsu-football-the-athletics-department-more.256163/
I read it a couple days ago. If the premise was that, "Everything's fine. Nothing to see here," then I would say I 100 percent don't agree with that. I'd have to go back and listen, but I believe Jeff was saying that he doesn't think the gap between conference payouts is going to keep FSU from being competitive with elite programs.
I agree with that to a degree -- I believe FSU is going to figure out ways to keep funding football at a high level because it's so important to the athletics department and the university. But if the revenue doesn't come up from the conference and season ticket sales don't rebound, then they're going to have to take away big sums of moneys from other areas. Would they kill some of the Olympic sports programs? I don't know. That would probably be a last resort.
But the money has to come from somewhere. And right now it's not coming quick enough from the ACC.
19 iraschoffel, Friday at 10:04 AM
Thanks for this info nole. Won't speak to FSU's specific woes but in terms of the ACCN I have been cautioning posters for a while now not to expect more than $5-7 million range the first couple of years. And forgot all about the fact that the recent $3 million bump would go away and make that technically a $2-4 million bump in actuality.
Still I remain optimistic that the ACC will eventually become third in conference payouts and that would be the best we could ever hope for. We simply don't have the number of brands that the SEC and B1G have in the sport that drives the $$$ train.
Cheers,
Neil
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - nole - 06-05-2019 02:15 PM
(06-05-2019 02:05 PM)OrangeDude Wrote: Thanks for this info nole. Won't speak to FSU's specific woes but in terms of the ACCN I have been cautioning posters for a while now not to expect more than $5-7 million range the first couple of years. And forgot all about the fact that the recent $3 million bump would go away and make that technically a $2-4 million bump in actuality.
Still I remain optimistic that the ACC will eventually become third in conference payouts and that would be the best we could ever hope for. We simply don't have the number of brands that the SEC and B1G have in the sport that drives the $$$ train.
Cheers,
Neil
Agreed. I think the conversation is that gray area. We could be 3rd and $20-$25 million behind the P2 hypothetically. That would be a problem.
The other issue with 3rd is the Big 12 keeps their tier 3, so OK and UT get an extra $9-$15 Million from that.....so 3rd doesn't really tell the story.
The real bottom line is, we have to stay within a certain amount of the P2 IMHO to remain viable. I think anything more than $10-$15 Million (and we are way past that) causes big issues as it adds up over time.
When the SEC renews their TV contract in 2024, this gets accelerated.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - TexanMark - 06-05-2019 03:47 PM
We have been fretting over revenue for years. Let's see where we stand in 3 years then 6 years.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Wear Purple - 06-05-2019 05:57 PM
(06-05-2019 01:51 PM)bluesox Wrote: You could make the case ESPN should shift NC state and wake to the sec and add UConn, WVU and Cincinnati to the acc with BYU or navy football only if no ND football or deregulation
Yeah, you could make that case. It would have the same likelihood of occurring as the ACC dumping Clemson, FSU and UNC to replace them with Hawaii-Hilo, Southern New Hampshire, and Emory & Henry College.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Wear Purple - 06-05-2019 05:59 PM
(06-05-2019 03:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote: We have been fretting over revenue for years. Let's see where we stand in 3 years then 6 years.
+1
The ACC is in a position of power and that is before the ACC Network launches. The money from March Madness is getting better and better every year too - nobody mentions this much for some odd reason. Give it time.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Pervis_Griffith - 06-05-2019 07:00 PM
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/06/01/budgets-and-baseball-lots-david-coburns-agenda-fsu-ad-florida-state-seminoles-mike-martin-taggart/1300241001/
Found this interesting from the article -- lagging football season ticket sales hitting FSU for about $8.5 million from last year .... YIKES. It doesn't matter what the ACC Network does or doesn't do, if FSU can't sell football tickets, that's gonna effect their bottom line.
FSU's projected athletic department operating revenue is projected to see a significant drop for the 2019-20 fiscal year. That's due, in large part, to a significant decrease in ticket sales for football. FSU is expected to bring in just under $15 million after bringing in almost $23.5 million last year.
Coburn and his staff are looking for different ways to bring fans back to Doak Campbell Stadium.
"The two biggest things that we have to do is improve the value of the home schedule, and we’re working on that," Coburn said. "But the other is that we have to win. We all know that, and we will."
FSU's home schedule for the 2019 season lacks a lot of big name teams, which is part of the reason for the drop in ticket sales.
FSU has sold 24,000 season tickets for the upcoming season. After selling out its allotment (45,000 season tickets in the main seating bowl) in 2014 following the program's third national title, FSU’s season ticket sales have continued to fall. Last year’s mark totaled 32,194, not including an additional 6500 premium seats sold in the Dunlap Champions Club and stadium suites.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - TexanMark - 06-06-2019 08:28 AM
(06-05-2019 05:59 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:(06-05-2019 03:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote: We have been fretting over revenue for years. Let's see where we stand in 3 years then 6 years.
+1
The ACC is in a position of power and that is before the ACC Network launches. The money from March Madness is getting better and better every year too - nobody mentions this much for some odd reason. Give it time.
Are you driving over to Morgantown for the opener? Love to see an upset.
I'll be in Lynchburg hoping for no upset.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Wear Purple - 06-06-2019 08:31 AM
(06-06-2019 08:28 AM)TexanMark Wrote: Are you driving over to Morgantown for the opener? Love to see an upset.
I'll be in Lynchburg hoping for no upset.
Absolutely, yes. And, we'll be rooting for the Orange that day as well.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - TexanMark - 06-06-2019 12:56 PM
(06-05-2019 07:00 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/06/01/budgets-and-baseball-lots-david-coburns-agenda-fsu-ad-florida-state-seminoles-mike-martin-taggart/1300241001/
Found this interesting from the article -- lagging football season ticket sales hitting FSU for about $8.5 million from last year .... YIKES. It doesn't matter what the ACC Network does or doesn't do, if FSU can't sell football tickets, that's gonna effect their bottom line.
FSU's projected athletic department operating revenue is projected to see a significant drop for the 2019-20 fiscal year. That's due, in large part, to a significant decrease in ticket sales for football. FSU is expected to bring in just under $15 million after bringing in almost $23.5 million last year.
Coburn and his staff are looking for different ways to bring fans back to Doak Campbell Stadium.
"The two biggest things that we have to do is improve the value of the home schedule, and we’re working on that," Coburn said. "But the other is that we have to win. We all know that, and we will."
FSU's home schedule for the 2019 season lacks a lot of big name teams, which is part of the reason for the drop in ticket sales.
FSU has sold 24,000 season tickets for the upcoming season. After selling out its allotment (45,000 season tickets in the main seating bowl) in 2014 following the program's third national title, FSU’s season ticket sales have continued to fall. Last year’s mark totaled 32,194, not including an additional 6500 premium seats sold in the Dunlap Champions Club and stadium suites.
Winning cures a lot of what ails you. Cuse's new season ticket sales are up over 6700 at this point. They are shooting for 8-10,000 by September. Renewals are at an all time high also so they might only see a loss of about 1000 from existing STH'ers.
I know the FSU group sales rep gave my group of 50 tickets the best section ever for the game in Tallahassee this fall.
FSU needs to get back into the Top 10 to help their sales. Tallahassee is smallish metro and located several hours away from population centers of JAX, Orlando and Tampa Bay.
Bottomline the era of mega stadiums are coming to an end. Universities need to think long and hard before making capital expenditures of expanding stadiums. I think UCF is one of the few places that a 10K seat increase might make sense. ECU I think was idiotic to expand. Louisville I think took a huge risk to expand. I think they think it will be about 61,000 this year? right? The hard core fan will always be there but the bandwagon fan is very fickle. Do you build for the fickle bandwagon?
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - TexanMark - 06-06-2019 12:58 PM
(06-06-2019 08:31 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:(06-06-2019 08:28 AM)TexanMark Wrote: Are you driving over to Morgantown for the opener? Love to see an upset.
I'll be in Lynchburg hoping for no upset.
Absolutely, yes. And, we'll be rooting for the Orange that day as well.
I'm staying near JMU on Saturday night after the Liberty game. Thankfully no JMU home game as I got a fairly decent rate for a room.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Statefan - 06-06-2019 02:33 PM
(06-05-2019 01:51 PM)bluesox Wrote: You could make the case ESPN should shift NC state and wake to the sec and add UConn, WVU and Cincinnati to the acc with BYU or navy football only if no ND football or deregulation
UConn is dog **** for the ACC. Sorry if that offends but UConn is pure dog ****.
Trading, if it ever happens, will happen among equals in the club, not minor league schools.
Apologizes for being blunt, but I've been having a bad couple of weeks.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Statefan - 06-06-2019 02:39 PM
(06-06-2019 12:56 PM)TexanMark Wrote:(06-05-2019 07:00 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/06/01/budgets-and-baseball-lots-david-coburns-agenda-fsu-ad-florida-state-seminoles-mike-martin-taggart/1300241001/
Found this interesting from the article -- lagging football season ticket sales hitting FSU for about $8.5 million from last year .... YIKES. It doesn't matter what the ACC Network does or doesn't do, if FSU can't sell football tickets, that's gonna effect their bottom line.
FSU's projected athletic department operating revenue is projected to see a significant drop for the 2019-20 fiscal year. That's due, in large part, to a significant decrease in ticket sales for football. FSU is expected to bring in just under $15 million after bringing in almost $23.5 million last year.
Coburn and his staff are looking for different ways to bring fans back to Doak Campbell Stadium.
"The two biggest things that we have to do is improve the value of the home schedule, and we’re working on that," Coburn said. "But the other is that we have to win. We all know that, and we will."
FSU's home schedule for the 2019 season lacks a lot of big name teams, which is part of the reason for the drop in ticket sales.
FSU has sold 24,000 season tickets for the upcoming season. After selling out its allotment (45,000 season tickets in the main seating bowl) in 2014 following the program's third national title, FSU’s season ticket sales have continued to fall. Last year’s mark totaled 32,194, not including an additional 6500 premium seats sold in the Dunlap Champions Club and stadium suites.
Winning cures a lot of what ails you. Cuse's new season ticket sales are up over 6700 at this point. They are shooting for 8-10,000 by September. Renewals are at an all time high also so they might only see a loss of about 1000 from existing STH'ers.
I know the FSU group sales rep gave my group of 50 tickets the best section ever for the game in Tallahassee this fall.
FSU needs to get back into the Top 10 to help their sales. Tallahassee is smallish metro and located several hours away from population centers of JAX, Orlando and Tampa Bay.
Bottomline the era of mega stadiums are coming to an end. Universities need to think long and hard before making capital expenditures of expanding stadiums. I think UCF is one of the few places that a 10K seat increase might make sense. ECU I think was idiotic to expand. Louisville I think took a huge risk to expand. I think they think it will be about 61,000 this year? right? The hard core fan will always be there but the bandwagon fan is very fickle. Do you build for the fickle bandwagon?
No, the decision at ECU to expand was wise at the time. They accomplished several things:
They took 2500 casual NC State fans from eastern NC and put them in purple seats. I know so because a professor friend told me.
They took 1250 casual, mullett wearing UNC fans from eastern ND and kept them from buying season tickets in Kenan.
They stopped an expansion of 59-65 K at State, they helped cause a drop in seating at Kenan from 63K to 50K
The kept themselves in the "game" at that stadium size.
The ptb at ECU did not know that the Big East would collapse and that VT, NC State, SC, UNC, and others were be forced out of their more often games due to the financial concerns.
It was the right play at the right time. ECU has had a knack for that for that for the last 50 years.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Statefan - 06-06-2019 02:47 PM
The PTB in Greenville have ****** up Biblically in the past year. You don't need the details but they bit the hand that fed them and pissed on UNC-Ch med school. For ECU to get to the next level, they needed engineering and some of NC State's programs, but to get those invovlfed opening up the ancient deal made between Leo Jenkins and the Branch Head Boys back in the 1970's that kept UNC-Ch from having the Vet School or Engineering, in exchange for NC State not having Law, Dentistry, Nursing, etc. ECU got a med school out of the deal and the ability to be the economic engine for poor as hell eastern NC.
Let's put the brass tacks on the table and tell the truth.
Promises were made by the ptb -white Democratic and some white Republican patrician politicians, to look after the poor as hell black folk who had been trapped for 300 years on a gd tobacco farm. That's truth and most folks don't like to hear it. Nearly every one of those former "black" slaves are actually children, grandchildren, and great grand children of a paternalistic power structure that people today do not understand. I'm old enough to remember the deal and while Leo Jenkins is dead, I'll continue to do my little part to keep the deal going NC State or UNC be damned.
Those are my people too - they don't look like it - but they are my people too.
If you want pure hell in the mid-Atlantic south, do something that messes with the well being of a white boy's former mammy and her kids. It's not a relationship that most northerners or westerners can even wrap their heads around but hurt them and and we will hurt those who have hurt them.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - zoocrew - 06-06-2019 03:16 PM
West Virginia and Temple come on down.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Statefan - 06-06-2019 03:23 PM
(06-06-2019 03:16 PM)zoocrew Wrote: West Virginia and Temple come on down.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Pervis_Griffith - 06-06-2019 03:47 PM
(06-06-2019 12:56 PM)TexanMark Wrote:(06-05-2019 07:00 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/06/01/budgets-and-baseball-lots-david-coburns-agenda-fsu-ad-florida-state-seminoles-mike-martin-taggart/1300241001/
Found this interesting from the article -- lagging football season ticket sales hitting FSU for about $8.5 million from last year .... YIKES. It doesn't matter what the ACC Network does or doesn't do, if FSU can't sell football tickets, that's gonna effect their bottom line.
FSU's projected athletic department operating revenue is projected to see a significant drop for the 2019-20 fiscal year. That's due, in large part, to a significant decrease in ticket sales for football. FSU is expected to bring in just under $15 million after bringing in almost $23.5 million last year.
Coburn and his staff are looking for different ways to bring fans back to Doak Campbell Stadium.
"The two biggest things that we have to do is improve the value of the home schedule, and we’re working on that," Coburn said. "But the other is that we have to win. We all know that, and we will."
FSU's home schedule for the 2019 season lacks a lot of big name teams, which is part of the reason for the drop in ticket sales.
FSU has sold 24,000 season tickets for the upcoming season. After selling out its allotment (45,000 season tickets in the main seating bowl) in 2014 following the program's third national title, FSU’s season ticket sales have continued to fall. Last year’s mark totaled 32,194, not including an additional 6500 premium seats sold in the Dunlap Champions Club and stadium suites.
Winning cures a lot of what ails you. Cuse's new season ticket sales are up over 6700 at this point. They are shooting for 8-10,000 by September. Renewals are at an all time high also so they might only see a loss of about 1000 from existing STH'ers.
I know the FSU group sales rep gave my group of 50 tickets the best section ever for the game in Tallahassee this fall.
FSU needs to get back into the Top 10 to help their sales. Tallahassee is smallish metro and located several hours away from population centers of JAX, Orlando and Tampa Bay.
Bottomline the era of mega stadiums are coming to an end. Universities need to think long and hard before making capital expenditures of expanding stadiums. I think UCF is one of the few places that a 10K seat increase might make sense. ECU I think was idiotic to expand. Louisville I think took a huge risk to expand. I think they think it will be about 61,000 this year? right? The hard core fan will always be there but the bandwagon fan is very fickle. Do you build for the fickle bandwagon?
Do you build for the fickle band wagon?
Yes.
It is the ONLY way to grow your overall fan base. Converting the fickle, into the base.
Louisville football used to struggle to fill a 35,000 seat minor league baseball stadium. It held basketball season tix hostage in order to sell football season tix. Then it hired Howard Schnellenberger, who dreamed bigger than the program, and sell outs started occurring.
Then a 42,000 seat stadium was built and opened in 1998. The hardcore season ticket fan base grew to about 25,000 at the time.
Should U of L have stopped there?
NO .... if they had, we'd still be in the G5. Instead, over time, the fan base grew. The program continued to mature, and celebrated some land mark successes on the field.
A second deck was added, and a whole bunch of luxury suites were added, and the base of the hard core fans grew accordingly. To the point where there was demand for more premium, luxury seating. This demand was high enough to build yet a 3rd expansion. And all those luxury suite opportunities sold out quickly.
Selling out the luxury suites pays for the addition to the stadium. Filling those extra regular stadium seats will come in time, just like it always has.
60,000 seats for division I football, in a metro of over a million, is easily doable. We're not talking about 100,000 seats (or benches which is the reality in all those mega stadiums - and that in itself is a problem for those programs -- we have actual seats). I guarantee that I sell my extra Notre Dame game tickets for a premium this year. Ditto Clemson.
So .. do you build for the fickle fan base? If Louisville's football program growth since 1985 is any guide, it is a resounding YES. Yes you do.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Statefan - 06-06-2019 06:51 PM
Tell the truth Pervis
U of L was the only game in town for decades. Louisville is the economic capital of the that part of the Ohio River Valley. You suckered the YUM authority. You never lost sight of the goal to make U of L athletically relevant. I applaud your audacity.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - TexanMark - 06-06-2019 07:30 PM
Do you expand from 40K? Yes but not sure 60-65K is the right call
I think 60-65K is risky if you have an extended down period and the younger generation stays away. We'll see in about 10 years.
RE: ACC Revenues increase (Article) - Garrettabc - 06-06-2019 09:15 PM
Fan attendance is dropping everywhere, but it has really hit hard at FSU. I think winning is a big part of it, but the home schedule is not as good as usual that see’s Miami, NCSU, SU, UofL and a couple of paycheck teams coming to Tallahassee in 2019.