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Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wolfman - 05-23-2019 09:25 AM
#12 BC won 2 games eliminating #1 Louisville and #8 Clemson. Good for BC but Louisville and Clemson still have to play a game with nothing to gain.
The 3 and 4 seeds don't play until day 3. Then they have to win 4 games in 4 days to win the championship.
If you lose 1 game the chances of making it out of pool play are astronomical.
I don't know what the answer is, but this doesn't seem like it works very well.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Hokie Mark - 05-23-2019 10:13 AM
(05-23-2019 09:25 AM)Wolfman Wrote: #12 BC won 2 games eliminating #1 Louisville and #8 Clemson. Good for BC but Louisville and Clemson still have to play a game with nothing to gain.
The 3 and 4 seeds don't play until day 3. Then they have to win 4 games in 4 days to win the championship.
If you lose 1 game the chances of making it out of pool play are astronomical.
I don't know what the answer is, but this doesn't seem like it works very well.
I don't like the format either. It must benefit someone, though I'm not sure who.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-23-2019 10:31 AM
I like the format. Here's why...
1. It still avoids teams having to blow their pitching staffs to win the championship. This was the initial thrust to get away from the old double-elimination format that was used for many years to the groups of 4 format that was used for a while. Now, we are down to groups of 3 which means teams that are going to the NCAAT, but don't advance in the ACCT, only play 2 games...and, teams that advance to the championship at most will play 4 games. I recall back to 2003 when Ga Tech won the title in Salem, VA, the Jackets had to play 6 games. They hosted a NCAAT regional the next week and lost to Stetson and EZU. Their staff was worn out from the weekend before. It didn't help that they had to play 3, yes 3, games on Sunday in Salem.
2. 12 teams have a shot. BC proved this week they can take advantage of that shot. In fact, each of the last 2 years only 1 of the top 4 teams has advanced to the semifinals.
3. It values and rewards a good regular season via the tie-breaker advantages provided to the top 4 teams at the top of each group. That's the way it should be. Not only does the top team advance if everyone finishes 1-1, but with the bottom 2 teams playing first in each group, it allows the top team to set their starting pitching (if they so choose to do).
4. Yes, there are some games folks view as meaningless as far as the ACCT goes, but with teams on the NCAAT bubble, those games are far from meaningless in the bigger picture. I'd say right now Clemson, FSU and Virginia are all on the NCAAT bubble. You won't see Clemson lay down today against UofL. Same for FSU against the Pack tomorrow night or the Cavs against Miami tomorrow afternoon. Each of those teams need to win to help their chances of getting selected to the NCAAT. UofL and GT are playing for national seeding. Miami and NCSU are playing to secure hosting regionals. So, even being "out of contention" for the ACC title, there's still plenty to play for.
Side note, those bubble teams are hoping like heck BC doesn't win the ACC title and getting the auto bid. BC sneaking into the NCAAT perhaps takes away 1 bid from those bubble teams.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Hallcity - 05-23-2019 10:36 AM
(05-23-2019 10:13 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(05-23-2019 09:25 AM)Wolfman Wrote: #12 BC won 2 games eliminating #1 Louisville and #8 Clemson. Good for BC but Louisville and Clemson still have to play a game with nothing to gain.
The 3 and 4 seeds don't play until day 3. Then they have to win 4 games in 4 days to win the championship.
If you lose 1 game the chances of making it out of pool play are astronomical.
I don't know what the answer is, but this doesn't seem like it works very well.
I don't like the format either. It must benefit someone, though I'm not sure who.
They need to play single elimination. The two lower seeded teams in each pod play each other, the winner of that games plays the highest seeded team in the pod with the winner of that game going to the semis. You'd eliminate four meaningless games. The only "advantage" of the current system is that it sometimes allows the highest seeded team in each pod to move on to the semis with a 1-1 record in pod play and I really don't think that's a good thing.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Pervis_Griffith - 05-23-2019 11:40 AM
I don't know what the answer is ....
But if preserving pitching for the NCAA tourney is the goal, than this format should remain.
Louisville has a pathetic conference tourney record under Dan McDonnell (ACC, Big East, and American - altho I think we won our only year in the AAC), the only blemish on his record as head coach. Noone has won more games than him, in his 13 seasons. And he's taken a program to 3 College World Series that never had won a single post season game before his arrival.
He doesn't seem to care about the conference tourney, yet it hasn't hampered big tourney success for his teams.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - georgia_tech_swagger - 05-23-2019 11:57 AM
That awkward moment when Danny Hall is the reliable one in the ACC tournament.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - XLance - 05-23-2019 12:12 PM
(05-23-2019 10:13 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(05-23-2019 09:25 AM)Wolfman Wrote: #12 BC won 2 games eliminating #1 Louisville and #8 Clemson. Good for BC but Louisville and Clemson still have to play a game with nothing to gain.
The 3 and 4 seeds don't play until day 3. Then they have to win 4 games in 4 days to win the championship.
If you lose 1 game the chances of making it out of pool play are astronomical.
I don't know what the answer is, but this doesn't seem like it works very well.
I don't like the format either. It must benefit someone, though I'm not sure who.
Saves pitching for the NCAA's for any team having to come out of the losers bracket in a double elimination format.
I should have read further down the thread.
.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-23-2019 12:19 PM
(05-23-2019 10:36 AM)Hallcity Wrote: They need to play single elimination. The two lower seeded teams in each pod play each other, the winner of that games plays the highest seeded team in the pod with the winner of that game going to the semis. You'd eliminate four meaningless games. The only "advantage" of the current system is that it sometimes allows the highest seeded team in each pod to move on to the semis with a 1-1 record in pod play and I really don't think that's a good thing.
Single elimination isn't feasible. The ACC relies on: 1) locals in the RTP area to fill the seats and is the reason why a team from the RTP area is in the prime time game each day this week. Makes perfect sense to me. Also, 2) fans of teams outside the RTP coming in and essentially making a week out of it.
(1) Locals will be there regardless of format. But, regarding (2) non-RTP area fans are less likely to fly/drive in just for what could be 1-and-done game. At least now, they get to see 2 games with 1 guaranteed to be worth something as far as advancing to the ACCT semifinals and a 3rd game minimum.
There is no perfect format. There will be pluses and minuses to all of them. The ACC over the past 2 decades has tinkered with 3 different formats and have finally settled on one that fits best for the teams, host cities and ACC's desires.
The head coaches are the ones that ditched the double-elimination format as I mentioned in a reply above because pitching staffs of NCAAT teams were getting wiped out trying to win an ACC title. The fans weren't crazy about it either because they didn't know when their teams were playing after their first game so it wreaked havoc on their late spring Memorial Day week/weekend vacation not knowing when they could/couldn't schedule time away from the ballpark.
Further, you had scenarios where due to games getting backed up, teams would finish a late game at 1am and had to be back to play a loser's bracket game later that day at 11am. This format is the best that meets the needs of the fans, the coaches (mainly not wanting to kill their pitching staffs ahead of the NCAAT), and the host cities.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-23-2019 12:48 PM
Speaking of this "so-called meaningless" game between Clemson and Louisville, this win by Clemson (a 1-hitter) perhaps knocks the door down and they step into the NCAAT off the bubble while Louisville's chances of being a top 8 national seed now are in serious question with 2 rather pitiful performances in Durham this week. So, while it may not be "meaningful" to the ACC title, it could have serious consequences for the next stage of postseason.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - ken d - 05-24-2019 08:12 AM
(05-23-2019 10:36 AM)Hallcity Wrote:(05-23-2019 10:13 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(05-23-2019 09:25 AM)Wolfman Wrote: #12 BC won 2 games eliminating #1 Louisville and #8 Clemson. Good for BC but Louisville and Clemson still have to play a game with nothing to gain.
The 3 and 4 seeds don't play until day 3. Then they have to win 4 games in 4 days to win the championship.
If you lose 1 game the chances of making it out of pool play are astronomical.
I don't know what the answer is, but this doesn't seem like it works very well.
I don't like the format either. It must benefit someone, though I'm not sure who.
They need to play single elimination. The two lower seeded teams in each pod play each other, the winner of that games plays the highest seeded team in the pod with the winner of that game going to the semis. You'd eliminate four meaningless games. The only "advantage" of the current system is that it sometimes allows the highest seeded team in each pod to move on to the semis with a 1-1 record in pod play and I really don't think that's a good thing.
To your point, NC State already clinched a berth in the semis by winning their first game against Wake Forest. Now they still have to play a meaningless game against Florida State in pool play. I doubt the Pack will go deep into their bullpen in this one. If this game were to be rained out, I wonder if they would even bother making it up.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-24-2019 08:23 AM
Apologies from getting a bit away from the topic regarding format, but thought I'd share a few thoughts on where the ACC teams stand and what's left regarding the upcoming NCAAT...
1. Louisville hurt their chances of securing a top 8 national seed with 2 losses this week. They could still get one, but may need some help from others losing (including conference family member, Ga Tech, today against Duke).
2. Ga Tech could secure a national seed with a win against Duke today and qualifying for the ACCT semifinal and a game against the Pack tomorrow. GT has a solid resume' still even if losing today. If they lose today though, like UofL, there will definitely be some uncertainty when the national seeds are announced. GT and UofL are the only 2 ACC teams who are locks to host a regional - though, others can and likely will join them in the top 16.
3. NC State helped their chances by coming back late to defeat the Deacs last night with regards to hosting a regional. Their SOS has held their RPI back some this season, but they will play in the ACCT semifinal and have a chance at getting to Sunday. If they get to Sunday, I think their argument for hosting a regional is pretty strong. They may be in competition with UNC for hosting and the Pack did just come off taking 2 of 3 at Chapel Hill. While their game against FSU tonight has no bearing on the ACCT, it has huge implications for both teams regarding next week.
4. Miami helped their strong chances of hosting a regional with a win over UVa yesterday. Big game this afternoon against UNC. Not only for ACCT advancement, but the winner may lock a regional hosting (especially for the Canes, UNC may need to get to Sunday). By playing one another, each team's RPI should get a small boost due to SOS.
5. As mentioned, UNC is right on the bubble for hosting along with NCSU and Miami.
6. FSU currently has an RPI of #53, non-ACC SOS rated #189 (read: not good), and has already lost to Wake eliminating them from advancement in the ACCT. The Noles are on the bubble for the NCAAT and could really use a win over the Pack tonight.
7. Duke currently has an RPI of #44 and like FSU is squarely on the NCAAT bubble. They have a humongous game this morning against GT. Win and not only does Duke advance to the semifinals, but their RPI should jump up with a victory over a top 10 RPI club. Lose today and Duke will sweat out hoping their name is called Monday morning along with 3 or 4 other ACC teams.
8. Clemson may have cashed their ticket with their impressive win over UofL yesterday. Their RPI now sits at #38. I'd say the Tigers are on the positive side of the bubble, but just barely. There will be some nervous Tigers watching the Road to Omaha show Monday at noon (ESPN-U).
9. UVA likely is now on the negative side of the bubble with their 0-2 trip to Durham this week. They have to hope a lot of other conference tourneys avoid upsets (including the ACCT and BC). The projections have UVA in the Last 4 Out or Last 4 In groupings. If I had to bet, I'd say UVA will miss the NCAAT this year.
10. & 11. I think Wake and ND's seasons are over.
12. BC is 2 wins away from making an improbable ACC title run and cashing their ticket to the NCAAT. The one thing they have going for them is having played their 2 games on Tuesday & Wednesday this week, their pitching should be rested and ready for Saturday and perhaps even able to bring back their #1 to start if they get to Sunday (maybe available Saturday for that matter...too lazy to look up how many pitches he threw Tuesday).
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - georgia_tech_swagger - 05-24-2019 01:00 PM
If GT keeps playing with that much ice water in Regional play I will believe in Omaha for the first time in a decade+.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-24-2019 01:11 PM
(05-24-2019 01:00 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: If GT keeps playing with that much ice water in Regional play I will believe in Omaha for the first time in a decade+.
Amen to that. Tristin English will be the next big star at the MLB level out of this program if he can stay healthy. As you know, Charlie Blackmon was a pitcher at GT before transforming to a 5-tool position player during his final year in Atlanta. English has many of the same traits...though, he will be very good if he and whoever is smart enough to draft him determines he should be on the hill.
GT vs NC State tomorrow at 5pm should be a very good matchup. First time since they moved to this format that 2 teams at the top of their groups (with all the advantages) have made it to the semifinals. Miami could make it 3 coming up next against the Tar Heels. Good stuff in Durham to start the day. Hope these next 2 games will be close and down to the last inning. In fact, going back to last night's final game those are 2 straight really good games to watch.
GT just helped its chances of getting a national seed in a big way. GT has now leapfrogged UofL in the RPI and GT took 2 of 3 in Louisville earlier this season (and could easily have been a sweep if not for a comeback walk-off win by the Cards in the bottom of the 9th in Sunday's series finale).
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - ken d - 05-24-2019 07:37 PM
If the goal of the current tournament format is to preserve the arms of the teams' pitching staffs, has the league ever considered simply doing away with the tournament entirely? What does it really determine at this point that a full regular season slate hasn't? Or do we play it just because it generates revenue?
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-25-2019 07:39 AM
(05-24-2019 07:37 PM)ken d Wrote: If the goal of the current tournament format is to preserve the arms of the teams' pitching staffs, has the league ever considered simply doing away with the tournament entirely? What does it really determine at this point that a full regular season slate hasn't? Or do we play it just because it generates revenue?
Generates revenue. Gives teams a chance to get on a roll to pad their resume' or in the case of BC this year a shot to pull a miracle. The current format is one that is far improved over the past with regards to preserving pitching staffs for next week's NCAAT, but it isn't the goal per se. It is a more fan-friendly format, for example, that allows fans to know when their teams are playing and they can schedule their time accordingly. There are other advantages that have already been pointed out.
FWIW, D1CollegeBaseball released its updated NCAAT projections a moment ago... https://d1baseball.com/projections/college-baseball-projected-field-of-64-may-25/
They have FSU, Clemson and Duke in their "In The Field, But Not Comfortably". GT (6) and Louisville (7) are national seeds. NC State (15) is projected to be a host. Miami and UNC are not. The Tar Heels can change that with a win today over BC and a win tomorrow in the ACCCG. I agree with their projection that UVA's season is over.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - georgia_tech_swagger - 05-25-2019 07:35 PM
Barring a miracle it'll be an All Coastal title game. If GT wins tomorrow too I gotta think they won't just be a national seed but a high (<= 4) national seed. We're approaching 3 MONTHS since GT has lost a series.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - georgia_tech_swagger - 05-25-2019 07:55 PM
NC State is on pitcher #5 of the inning and we're still going. A double ends the game immediately on the run rule.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - georgia_tech_swagger - 05-25-2019 08:14 PM
GT-UNC tomorrow at high noon.
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - georgia_tech_swagger - 05-25-2019 10:47 PM
Just realized if GT wins the title they'll have played effectively 3 of the 4 games as road games: ND, Duke, NC State, UNC
RE: Not liking the ACC baseball tournament format - Wear Purple - 05-26-2019 07:17 AM
Ga Tech goes for its 10th ACC title. Currently, Clemson leads the ACC with 10 titles so GT has a chance to tie it.
Both team's pitching depth will be tested today. UNC may have punched a ticket to host a regional by making the championship game. I certainly think the Tar Heels will do so if they win today.