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Charleston - dan10 - 02-09-2019 09:15 AM
So this game is important, but at the same time not important at all. To put us in a position for avoiding the play-in game we needed a split of this home stand. We won on Thursday so at worst we have achieved that. A win here would just about guarantee we avoid the play-in round as well as have a shot at the 3 seed. A loss here and we likely fall back towards the jumbled mess that is the rest of the CAA. However we would still be in good position based on remaining games. The cards fell our way Thursday night around the league, which helped tremendously. As it sits today we are in a tie for 4th with Delaware.
As far as the game, CofC has been a bit all over the place. They have been playing better lately, but are not really putting teams away. They are still a solid team with Brantley and Riller. Riller likely will make us look silly with his quickness. Brantley has been off this year but still producing. He can be a problem due to his size and ability to still shoot the 3. Today screams of a zone of some sort to try and limit dribble penetration. We stole one down in Charleston with a crazy collapse, maybe we can win one at home, although with how the last game ended, I have a feeling they are going to be out for blood. We are an improving team, we need to start off strong again and not dig a hole. This is a beatable team, but a slow start would likely be our ending too. A second strong defensive effort in a row would be a huge boost in confidence for the stretch run. I dont see it, though.
CofC- 84
DU- 68
Vegas- CofC: -4.5
RE: Charleston - J.B. - 02-09-2019 11:02 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has posted about today's game after the crazy ending. I wanted to go back and watch the replay of the final 4 minutes before commenting.
So Drexel is down by 15 at the under 4 timeout, down by 11 with 2 minutes left, and down by 6 with 1 minute left.
John gets elbowed in the face with 4 seconds left by Brantley. Refs don't see it, and then Brantley gets fouled. John pleads to the refs to check the monitor, which they do, and the replay shows that he was clearly hit in the face and the other JB gets an F-1. Since JB fouls out, he doesn't get to shoot the free throws, but his replacement in the game, Sam Miller, does get to shoot. Seems like we had a couple of flaws in the rules here. First of all, why would the replacement get to shoot the free throws? It seems to me that COC was rewarded for having a player foul out, as they easily could have brought in a 100% shooting walk on to shoot the free throws if they wanted to. Sam Miller, was 12-17 on the years, so he was a decent FT shooter, and he made both free throws. But the other issue is, why did the Drexel foul count in the first place? If the refs had seen John get punched in the face to being with, then the foul against Drexel would have never happened, and Drexel should have gotten 2 shots to tie the game and the ball.
Then at the final shot, you could argue that Riller fouled John on the final 3 point attempt. I've seen weaker circumstances where players got fouled.
Anyway, it is what it is, and for the 2nd time in 2 weeks, Drexel took a game where they were left for dead in the final 2 minutes and roared back and gave themselves a chance to win. COC is clearly a step above Drexel in terms of talent. They were even missing a starter, Harris who went home for a funeral. Drexel seemed completely outmatched until the almost miraculous comeback at the end.
Harper scored a career high 30 today. Drexel also shot 19 for 19 from the foul line.
Crowd today was listed at 1,175, and it was the complete opposite from Thursday, where the announced crowd was 917. Thursday, the general chairbacks were empty, but there was a very nice student crowd. Today, the student section was very disappointing, but the regular seating area was very crowded. Large crowd of COC fans today, who were here for an alumni event. The DAC was lively in the final minutes, but it could have been even louder if more student had showed up. But despite the loss, it was a fun afternoon at the DAC.
RE: Charleston - Water Boy - 02-10-2019 01:07 AM
I agree that they should reconsider the rule that gave Charleston the free throws. If you're going to let the refs review, why not let them get the play right? It makes no sense to allow a player to benefit from throwing an elbow just because they ref originally missed the call. I guess it is possible that the play could go on for several minutes before there is a stoppage that allow the refs to review, but even then it seems like rules could be made to disallow advantaged gained.
RE: Charleston - dan10 - 02-10-2019 08:41 AM
We did not deserve to win the game so I am not crazy upset about it. Another furious comeback after mostly not good play. CofC is not going to win the conference if they dont learn how to hold onto leads. We are not the only team they have fallen late to. Also is Brantley like the dumbest player in the conference? In our 2 games he: Fouled a 3 point shot at the buzzer in a 2 point game, Fouled a 3 point shooter with a big lead just before half, elbowed a guy in the final seconds of a 2 point game for a flagrant. That is an amazing collapse in judgement from a player who is as good as he is.
RE: Charleston - EvanJ - 02-10-2019 01:12 PM
I don't think replay can undo a foul. If a player is unable to shoot free throws because he got hurt, the defense gets to pick the shooter unless it was a flagrant foul, in which case the shooting team gets to choose. If Charleston could pick anybody, I would have expected them to choose Riller, who's their best free throw shooter. Miller was Charleston's worst free throw shooter on the court at the time. Do you know that Drexel didn't pick Miller? The fact that it was Brantley's replacement could be a coincidence.
RE: Charleston - J.B. - 02-10-2019 03:12 PM
(02-10-2019 01:12 PM)EvanJ Wrote: I don't think replay can undo a foul. If a player is unable to shoot free throws because he got hurt, the defense gets to pick the shooter unless it was a flagrant foul, in which case the shooting team gets to choose. If Charleston could pick anybody, I would have expected them to choose Riller, who's their best free throw shooter. Miller was Charleston's worst free throw shooter on the court at the time. Do you know that Drexel didn't pick Miller? The fact that it was Brantley's replacement could be a coincidence.
I'm honestly not sure. When I watched the replay, I think the announcers said that Miller shot the free throws because he came into the game to replace Brantley.
About a minute earlier, Riller got fouled, and was down on the ground. The refs told him that he had to leave the game. McManus came in and shot Riller's free throws and went 1 for 2. Then Riller came back into the game. But I'm not sure how it was decided.
BTW, EvanJ, if you have a chance, you might want to watch the replay of the game after the final under 4 timeout. There was a lot of interesting things that took place that a real basketball fan would enjoy.
RE: Charleston - Timer - 02-10-2019 08:22 PM
(02-10-2019 03:12 PM)J.B. Wrote:(02-10-2019 01:12 PM)EvanJ Wrote: I don't think replay can undo a foul. If a player is unable to shoot free throws because he got hurt, the defense gets to pick the shooter unless it was a flagrant foul, in which case the shooting team gets to choose. If Charleston could pick anybody, I would have expected them to choose Riller, who's their best free throw shooter. Miller was Charleston's worst free throw shooter on the court at the time. Do you know that Drexel didn't pick Miller? The fact that it was Brantley's replacement could be a coincidence.
I'm honestly not sure. When I watched the replay, I think the announcers siad that Miller shot the free throws because he came into the game to replace Brantley.
About a minute earlier, Riller got fouled, and was down on the ground. The refs told him that he had to leave the game. McManus came in and shot Riller's free throws and went 1 for 2. Then Riller came back into the game. But I'm not sure how it was decided.
Drexel did not pick the shooter either time.
RE: Charleston - dan10 - 02-11-2019 09:40 AM
(02-10-2019 08:22 PM)Timer Wrote: Drexel did not pick the shooter either time.
So what is the rule for these? Obviously a foul then coming back to a flagrant that fouls them out, is not your every day situation.
RE: Charleston - hiroshimacarp - 02-11-2019 01:54 PM
yeah I didn't get too bent out of shape about the end because we didn't deserve to win. we play hard for coach spiker though. we never give up.
I wasn't even convinced there was an elbow at all. The angle I saw showed it at the very edge of the screen. Maybe there was another one I missed. I just thought it was a smart play by John to sell it. John was really aggravating me with stupid turnovers before he started showing a lot of emotion and baited the refs into that flagrant foul.
RE: Charleston - EvanJ - 02-11-2019 02:23 PM
(02-10-2019 03:12 PM)J.B. Wrote:Thank you for the suggestion. I watched highlights. Right now I can't watch video. Maybe I'll watch later.(02-10-2019 01:12 PM)EvanJ Wrote: I don't think replay can undo a foul. If a player is unable to shoot free throws because he got hurt, the defense gets to pick the shooter unless it was a flagrant foul, in which case the shooting team gets to choose. If Charleston could pick anybody, I would have expected them to choose Riller, who's their best free throw shooter. Miller was Charleston's worst free throw shooter on the court at the time. Do you know that Drexel didn't pick Miller? The fact that it was Brantley's replacement could be a coincidence.
I'm honestly not sure. When I watched the replay, I think the announcers said that Miller shot the free throws because he came into the game to replace Brantley.
About a minute earlier, Riller got fouled, and was down on the ground. The refs told him that he had to leave the game. McManus came in and shot Riller's free throws and went 1 for 2. Then Riller came back into the game. But I'm not sure how it was decided.
BTW, EvanJ, if you have a chance, you might want to watch the replay of the game after the final under 4 timeout. There was a lot of interesting things that took place that a real basketball fan would enjoy.
RE: Charleston - Timer - 02-11-2019 05:40 PM
Quote:About a minute earlier, Riller got fouled, and was down on the ground. The refs told him that he had to leave the game. McManus came in and shot Riller's free throws and went 1 for 2. Then Riller came back into the game. But I'm not sure how it was decided.
Riller came back in at the next stoppage of play. The clock had to start/stop or DU commit an infraction to get him back in. By rule, he to initially have to leave the game since the coach entered the floor area.
End of game was administered correctly by rule as I read and understand them.
RE: Charleston - EvanJ - 02-11-2019 07:32 PM
I started watching the last 4 minutes, but I stopped because it was buffering repeatedly. Watching a replayed game with internet that's fast for everything else makes me mad that it was buffering.
RE: Charleston - dan10 - 02-12-2019 07:36 AM
(02-11-2019 05:40 PM)Timer Wrote:Quote:About a minute earlier, Riller got fouled, and was down on the ground. The refs told him that he had to leave the game. McManus came in and shot Riller's free throws and went 1 for 2. Then Riller came back into the game. But I'm not sure how it was decided.
Riller came back in at the next stoppage of play. The clock had to start/stop or DU commit an infraction to get him back in. By rule, he to initially have to leave the game since the coach entered the floor area.
End of game was administered correctly by rule as I read and understand them.
So coach picks player off of their bench to shoot the FT's?
RE: Charleston - metsox - 02-12-2019 08:39 AM
(02-12-2019 07:36 AM)dan10 Wrote:(02-11-2019 05:40 PM)Timer Wrote:Quote:About a minute earlier, Riller got fouled, and was down on the ground. The refs told him that he had to leave the game. McManus came in and shot Riller's free throws and went 1 for 2. Then Riller came back into the game. But I'm not sure how it was decided.
Riller came back in at the next stoppage of play. The clock had to start/stop or DU commit an infraction to get him back in. By rule, he to initially have to leave the game since the coach entered the floor area.
End of game was administered correctly by rule as I read and understand them.
So coach picks player off of their bench to shoot the FT's?
Yes, he should. There's some question as to whether that happened, I'm working on confirmation.
I did put up a Charleston post game, but please consider this the post-postgame.
Not Happy
RE: Charleston - hiroshimacarp - 02-12-2019 11:08 AM
I definitely agree with metsox about Coach Spiker. He's saying and doing all the right things. Is he still out with the team and DAC Pack pregame? That kind of stuff goes a long way to building the fan base you're talking about.
He just needs players. Hopefully he'll get them. Agree on the winning point and will add that tournament seeding doesn't mean much either. I'm interested to see how we can improve over the last few weeks of the season. I trust Denise Dillon to develop players and play a style that fits them...but can Coach Spiker do it too?
RE: Charleston - swampcougar1 - 02-12-2019 11:30 AM
NCAA rule for injured player when fouled is his coach picks shooter off bench. NBA rule opposing coach picks shooter.
RE: Charleston - metsox - 02-12-2019 12:00 PM
(02-12-2019 11:30 AM)swampcougar1 Wrote: NCAA rule for injured player when fouled is his coach picks shooter off bench. NBA rule opposing coach picks shooter.
This is simply factually incorrect.
If the foul is flagrant, then his coach picks the replacement. If not, the opposition coach does.
EDIT: And I've just received confirmation via the Athletic Dept that Spiker did pick the C of C shooter who subbed for Riller.
RE: Charleston - dan10 - 02-12-2019 12:20 PM
So injured player opposing coach chooses, flagrant his own coach chooses?
So we chose Riller's replacement and Grant chose Brantley's? Correct?
RE: Charleston - metsox - 02-12-2019 01:01 PM
(02-12-2019 12:20 PM)dan10 Wrote: So injured player opposing coach chooses, flagrant his own coach chooses?
So we chose Riller's replacement and Grant chose Brantley's? Correct?
Correct. Grant chose Brantley's because Brantley had fouled out, and it was a normal sub for a player that had to be removed, no injuries involved there.
RE: Charleston - swampcougar1 - 02-12-2019 01:45 PM
(02-12-2019 01:01 PM)metsox Wrote:(02-12-2019 12:20 PM)dan10 Wrote: So injured player opposing coach chooses, flagrant his own coach chooses?
So we chose Riller's replacement and Grant chose Brantley's? Correct?
Correct. Grant chose Brantley's because Brantley had fouled out, and it was a normal sub for a player that had to be removed, no injuries involved there.
My source second paragraph clearly states coach of injured player picks shooter in NCAA.
https://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/10489/offensive-player-injured-on-foul