(03-16-2020 09:32 AM)JacksonHall Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 10:07 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Expecting to be disappointed, but the early end to the season and low vacancies are a pretty huge wildcard. Still expecting it be a few weeks, but now it's not an impossibility for us to close the deal any day now. Again, improbable? Yes. But not impossible. Hoping the administration finally decides to go big, nail things down this week, and surprise us all with a...decent hire.

I would be surprised if everyone here wasn't skeptical given the decision making track record for men's basketball.

(03-16-2020 10:14 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 09:32 AM)JacksonHall Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 10:07 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  Expecting to be disappointed, but the early end to the season and low vacancies are a pretty huge wildcard. Still expecting it be a few weeks, but now it's not an impossibility for us to close the deal any day now. Again, improbable? Yes. But not impossible. Hoping the administration finally decides to go big, nail things down this week, and surprise us all with a...decent hire.

I would be surprised if everyone here wasn't skeptical given the decision making track record for men's basketball.

I agree unfortunately. After decades of screwing this up, it's really hard to think that they would finally do it right. It's the same admin (for the most part) that has screwed up in the past and now are just going to hit a home run after striking out so badly in the past.
Perhaps they will. Perhaps this time they see the urgency: new arena and they need fans to show up and fill that arena. I'm trying not to be pessimistic about it but it is extremely difficult.
Let's just say if it's a questionable hire I won't be surprised. I would be surprised if it was actually a really good hire. I would be shocked beyond belief if it was a big name hire.

(03-15-2020 08:02 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:53 PM)jmufbs Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:44 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:33 PM)jmufbs Wrote:  JTIII checks a lot of those boxes... and moves us closer to AAC desirability IMO.

Gotta win, which perhaps he will do if we land him. Winning hopefully will attract fans and especially students. We won't attract any conference with a half-full/half-empty arena. I truly don't care who the head coach is. Just win, babyyyyy. The rest will take care of itself. JMU fans are known to get behind a winner in a big way. We need the locals to see this program in a light like they did back in the days of the Lefthander...who, regardless of his shortcomings in the postseason, was a winner and attracted interesting programs into the 'burg.

winning is the ultimate goal, but if you were a fan during the Lefty years you can appreciate what a name coach can do without dominating the win column.
Lefty only had a .589 win pct. at JMU, made the NCAA only once, but excitement was always high because of the spectacle surrounding the games and the big name programs he could get to play us- and the players he could attract to JMU that other coaches couldn't.
JT3 is closer to that profile than any of the candidates left.
i'd rather bet on a proven name coach, then hoping a "no- name" wins.

100% agree with you. As I said to someone in a reply a few days ago, the characteristics of being a "name" and "winning" aren't mutually exclusive. We can have both. If we get a head coach who is bland and does nothing to try to fire up the fanbase (which certainly includes the student body, in my opinion should be the first priority), then he had better damn well win and win big (see boring Bill Belichick as an example).

(03-16-2020 10:25 AM)RamDawg Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:02 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:53 PM)jmufbs Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:44 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:33 PM)jmufbs Wrote:  JTIII checks a lot of those boxes... and moves us closer to AAC desirability IMO.

Gotta win, which perhaps he will do if we land him. Winning hopefully will attract fans and especially students. We won't attract any conference with a half-full/half-empty arena. I truly don't care who the head coach is. Just win, babyyyyy. The rest will take care of itself. JMU fans are known to get behind a winner in a big way. We need the locals to see this program in a light like they did back in the days of the Lefthander...who, regardless of his shortcomings in the postseason, was a winner and attracted interesting programs into the 'burg.

winning is the ultimate goal, but if you were a fan during the Lefty years you can appreciate what a name coach can do without dominating the win column.
Lefty only had a .589 win pct. at JMU, made the NCAA only once, but excitement was always high because of the spectacle surrounding the games and the big name programs he could get to play us- and the players he could attract to JMU that other coaches couldn't.
JT3 is closer to that profile than any of the candidates left.
i'd rather bet on a proven name coach, then hoping a "no- name" wins.

100% agree with you. As I said to someone in a reply a few days ago, the characteristics of being a "name" and "winning" aren't mutually exclusive. We can have both. If we get a head coach who is bland and does nothing to try to fire up the fanbase (which certainly includes the student body, in my opinion should be the first priority), then he had better damn well win and win big (see boring Bill Belichick as an example).

Wear Purple used "Just win" and "winning is the ultimate goal" in previous posts. I absolutely agree but with the question....When? What are the expectations?

We can realistically hire an older experienced named coach that didn't work out elsewhere that will likely bring immediate improvement. Or we can realistically bring in a lesser known coach, as in assistant from the ACC or SEC that may not have the immediate success but has the skills, desire and drive to improve consistently over the next 4 or 5 years. I prefer the latter, the builder instead of a fixer, the tortoise over the hare.

Regardless of the type of guy we hire, hopefully he's that guy that can recruit the under the radar, hidden gem type athletes, something the good mid major programs are good at. Coach Rowe was really good at it but unfortunately didn't know how to train them and develop them.

(03-16-2020 10:49 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 10:25 AM)RamDawg Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:02 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:53 PM)jmufbs Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:44 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  Gotta win, which perhaps he will do if we land him. Winning hopefully will attract fans and especially students. We won't attract any conference with a half-full/half-empty arena. I truly don't care who the head coach is. Just win, babyyyyy. The rest will take care of itself. JMU fans are known to get behind a winner in a big way. We need the locals to see this program in a light like they did back in the days of the Lefthander...who, regardless of his shortcomings in the postseason, was a winner and attracted interesting programs into the 'burg.

winning is the ultimate goal, but if you were a fan during the Lefty years you can appreciate what a name coach can do without dominating the win column.
Lefty only had a .589 win pct. at JMU, made the NCAA only once, but excitement was always high because of the spectacle surrounding the games and the big name programs he could get to play us- and the players he could attract to JMU that other coaches couldn't.
JT3 is closer to that profile than any of the candidates left.
i'd rather bet on a proven name coach, then hoping a "no- name" wins.

100% agree with you. As I said to someone in a reply a few days ago, the characteristics of being a "name" and "winning" aren't mutually exclusive. We can have both. If we get a head coach who is bland and does nothing to try to fire up the fanbase (which certainly includes the student body, in my opinion should be the first priority), then he had better damn well win and win big (see boring Bill Belichick as an example).

Wear Purple used "Just win" and "winning is the ultimate goal" in previous posts. I absolutely agree but with the question....When? What are the expectations?

We can realistically hire an older experienced named coach that didn't work out elsewhere that will likely bring immediate improvement. Or we can realistically bring in a lesser known coach, as in assistant from the ACC or SEC that may not have the immediate success but has the skills, desire and drive to improve consistently over the next 4 or 5 years. I prefer the latter, the builder instead of a fixer, the tortoise over the hare.

Regardless of the type of guy we hire, hopefully he's that guy that can recruit the under the radar, hidden gem type athletes, something the good mid major programs are good at. Coach Rowe was really good at it but unfortunately didn't know how to train them and develop them.

I disagree with the "assistant coach" part. That is a big part of what got us in this mess. Keener was an assistant in the ACC and a Final Four team at that and we see how that turned out. Hiring an assistant coach is going to be a huge risk. For many Sanchez would have been a great hire and his resume as a head coach isn't good... yet.
Not to put salt on an open wound, but Rowe was considered a builder as well.
We cannot afford to take a chance on this hire. They need to go after a head coach with experience that has won games. I don't know why a fix can't also be a build. This program needs a shot in the arm, but I do agree that it needs to be with the long term in mind.
If the admin feels the urgency of the arena and decides to go out of their comfort zone, I think they will probably opt for a guy that can have an immediate impact over a guy with the long term in mind.
I understand why Rowe wasn't fired last year, but I think having that extra year to build the program would have been key to the success of this program for the future. But now the urgency is stronger than ever and they just cannot afford to wait another 3-4 years... they need MBB to win and win now. Fan support needs to build off of the first year in the new arena. Having a losing season may be incredibly difficult to bring back fans.

(03-16-2020 10:58 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Well you left out the option that seems to be the way JMU is likely going, which is a current head coach from a D1 program with a lower ceiling than ours should be. Good point on asking what the expectations are though. Unless we really nail this hire with someone that can pull a pretty instantaneous turnaround or really blow it with someone that continues to spend the next few years in the basement of the CAA then I'd imagine we'll have plenty of debate on here in the future over whether the improvement has been enough to continue with the new guy.

The 2018-19 team went 6-12/12-19(I threw out the BC and EMU games). Assuming no one major transfers out, I'd say a good coach should immediately have this team improving upon that season, I'd hope to see around .500 or better in the CAA year one. Beyond that, it's a little tough to lay out a timeline without seeing how things go with transfers in and out. I certainly would hope we're top two or three in the CAA by year four when a decent amount of his guys will be juniors.

(03-16-2020 11:23 AM)RamDawg Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 10:49 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 10:25 AM)RamDawg Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:02 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 07:53 PM)jmufbs Wrote:  winning is the ultimate goal, but if you were a fan during the Lefty years you can appreciate what a name coach can do without dominating the win column.
Lefty only had a .589 win pct. at JMU, made the NCAA only once, but excitement was always high because of the spectacle surrounding the games and the big name programs he could get to play us- and the players he could attract to JMU that other coaches couldn't.
JT3 is closer to that profile than any of the candidates left.
i'd rather bet on a proven name coach, then hoping a "no- name" wins.

100% agree with you. As I said to someone in a reply a few days ago, the characteristics of being a "name" and "winning" aren't mutually exclusive. We can have both. If we get a head coach who is bland and does nothing to try to fire up the fanbase (which certainly includes the student body, in my opinion should be the first priority), then he had better damn well win and win big (see boring Bill Belichick as an example).

Wear Purple used "Just win" and "winning is the ultimate goal" in previous posts. I absolutely agree but with the question....When? What are the expectations?

We can realistically hire an older experienced named coach that didn't work out elsewhere that will likely bring immediate improvement. Or we can realistically bring in a lesser known coach, as in assistant from the ACC or SEC that may not have the immediate success but has the skills, desire and drive to improve consistently over the next 4 or 5 years. I prefer the latter, the builder instead of a fixer, the tortoise over the hare.

Regardless of the type of guy we hire, hopefully he's that guy that can recruit the under the radar, hidden gem type athletes, something the good mid major programs are good at. Coach Rowe was really good at it but unfortunately didn't know how to train them and develop them.

I disagree with the "assistant coach" part. That is a big part of what got us in this mess. Keener was an assistant in the ACC and a Final Four team at that and we see how that turned out. Hiring an assistant coach is going to be a huge risk. For many Sanchez would have been a great hire and his resume as a head coach isn't good... yet.
Not to put salt on an open wound, but Rowe was considered a builder as well.
We cannot afford to take a chance on this hire. They need to go after a head coach with experience that has won games. I don't know why a fix can't also be a build. This program needs a shot in the arm, but I do agree that it needs to be with the long term in mind.
If the admin feels the urgency of the arena and decides to go out of their comfort zone, I think they will probably opt for a guy that can have an immediate impact over a guy with the long term in mind.
I understand why Rowe wasn't fired last year, but I think having that extra year to build the program would have been key to the success of this program for the future. But now the urgency is stronger than ever and they just cannot afford to wait another 3-4 years... they need MBB to win and win now. Fan support needs to build off of the first year in the new arena. Having a losing season may be incredibly difficult to bring back fans.

Just a difference of opinion on the assistant part and us fans could argue it to the end of time. There are currently a lot of very successful HC's that came from assistant jobs that JMU would currently hire in a heart beat. Most have 10 or 15 years of gaining experience an knowledge from great programs. It's a good time for JMU to hit the reset button and I don't see any options with hiring an experienced HC that wasn't a reject somewhere else. I don't see a Wes Miller (not an impressive coaching history) type coach making an at best lateral move.

The Coach Rowe hire was a foolish gamble that didn't work out. He had NO coaching experience and no idea how to run the D1 business. Our Admin was too stupid or maybe stubborn to know to fold after year two. Understandably, coach Rowe was going to ride that train as long as possible. I really hope coach Rowe can land somewhere where he can begin to rebuild his career.

(03-16-2020 11:37 AM)olddawg Wrote:  When we hired Lefty, the goal was to dominate the CAA yearly and boost our profile with "name" out of conference opponents. He knew that just routinely beating CAA opponents wasn't going to move the needle. And that was when the CAA was a stronger basketball conference. We need the expectation that we will be the premier program of our decidedly mediocre, 18th ranked conference if we have any illusions of being asked to join a higher profile conference.

(03-16-2020 11:37 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 10:58 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Well you left out the option that seems to be the way JMU is likely going, which is a current head coach from a D1 program with a lower ceiling than ours should be. Good point on asking what the expectations are though. Unless we really nail this hire with someone that can pull a pretty instantaneous turnaround or really blow it with someone that continues to spend the next few years in the basement of the CAA then I'd imagine we'll have plenty of debate on here in the future over whether the improvement has been enough to continue with the new guy.

The 2018-19 team went 6-12/12-19(I threw out the BC and EMU games). Assuming no one major transfers out, I'd say a good coach should immediately have this team improving upon that season, I'd hope to see around .500 or better in the CAA year one. Beyond that, it's a little tough to lay out a timeline without seeing how things go with transfers in and out. I certainly would hope we're top two or three in the CAA by year four when a decent amount of his guys will be juniors.

Just commenting on the general nature of the highlighted comment (not directed at Scotty). This type of expectation is what frustrates me, and frankly makes me lose interest in the program in general. If our goal is merely to be top 2 or 3 in the lowly CAA (and take 4 years to do it), count me as unimpressed.

When we hired Lefty, the goal was to dominate the CAA yearly and boost our profile with "name" out of conference opponents. He knew that just routinely beating CAA opponents wasn't going to move the needle. And that was when the CAA was a stronger basketball conference. We need the expectation that we will be the premier program of our decidedly mediocre, 18th ranked basketball conference if we have any illusions of being asked to join a higher profile conference.

Most of the P5 TV deals run through mid decade. We need to be positioned with our best foot forward by then, should realignment take place. Winning the watered down CAA is not enough and I hope the coaching search is taking that into consideration. The program needs to be elevated beyond what the CAA generally allows for. It needs that expectation to keep up with our growing academic profile and our football, women's basketball, lacrosse and softball programs. The timing and nature of this hire is crucial.

(03-16-2020 12:31 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I'll have to walk back my assertation that the CAA was a stronger basketball conference in Lefty's days. It appears that during his 9 years here, the CAA averaged between 18th and 19th (according to Sports-reference.com.

I think my recollection was probably based more on the strength of the top teams, who generally fared well in the NCAAs. Pretty sure the CAA has not had a Tourney win since VCU and Mason left (play-in victory is a participation trophy). CAA probably had some serious bottom feeders too back in Lefty's days that brought our average rating down.

(03-16-2020 12:31 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I'll have to walk back my assertation that the CAA was a stronger basketball conference in Lefty's days. It appears that during his 9 years here, the CAA averaged between 18th and 19th (according to Sports-reference.com.

I think my recollection was probably based more on the strength of the top teams, who generally fared well in the NCAAs. Pretty sure the CAA has not had a Tourney win since VCU and Mason left (play-in victory is a participation trophy). CAA probably had some serious bottom feeders too back in Lefty's days that brought our average rating down.

(03-16-2020 12:31 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I'll have to walk back my assertation that the CAA was a stronger basketball conference in Lefty's days. It appears that during his 9 years here, the CAA averaged between 18th and 19th (according to Sports-reference.com.

I think my recollection was probably based more on the strength of the top teams, who generally fared well in the NCAAs. Pretty sure the CAA has not had a Tourney win since VCU and Mason left (play-in victory is a participation trophy). CAA probably had some serious bottom feeders too back in Lefty's days that brought our average rating down.

(03-16-2020 01:24 PM)2Buck Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 12:31 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I'll have to walk back my assertation that the CAA was a stronger basketball conference in Lefty's days. It appears that during his 9 years here, the CAA averaged between 18th and 19th (according to Sports-reference.com.

I think my recollection was probably based more on the strength of the top teams, who generally fared well in the NCAAs. Pretty sure the CAA has not had a Tourney win since VCU and Mason left (play-in victory is a participation trophy). CAA probably had some serious bottom feeders too back in Lefty's days that brought our average rating down.

Yeah, I'd say the overall condition of the conference back then didn't reflect how much the stronger top teams were better than the current strong teams. Even though we didn't win conf tourneys, there were a couple years where JMU was mentioned as an at-large bid.

(03-16-2020 02:03 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 12:31 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I'll have to walk back my assertation that the CAA was a stronger basketball conference in Lefty's days. It appears that during his 9 years here, the CAA averaged between 18th and 19th (according to Sports-reference.com.

I think my recollection was probably based more on the strength of the top teams, who generally fared well in the NCAAs. Pretty sure the CAA has not had a Tourney win since VCU and Mason left (play-in victory is a participation trophy). CAA probably had some serious bottom feeders too back in Lefty's days that brought our average rating down.

I am surprised the CAA was that low, but I guess I am remembering the David Robinson years and the years when Richmond was a tough out. I always remember Oduh being a decent team too. Anyway- #’s don’t lie I suppose.