(02-22-2019 01:45 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 10:59 PM)KingSean Wrote:  D2 attendance doesn't really mean a team wont have success at the D1 level. Sadly no one cares about D2 or D3 even if the team is good

Perhaps, but I would think the WAC would rather take a chance on a school that is having at least moderate success attendance wise, rather than a one that is playing in a empty gym. Seeing CSU-L.A. (316) and Metro State's (397) lack of people attending games is a little concerning. Also noting that Metro St. is only a year or so removed from playing for the Division 2 title.

I thinking that the WAC would be better served in going after (for instance) a Tarleton State, or Washburn U., who are doing reasonably well in getting people to games. You would think that moving up would only add to those figures. Those particular universities also have football, which I'm guessing would please Dixie State as well. Washburn is in Topeka however, so unless UMKC is sticking around, that may be a bit out of the WAC's preferred range.

(02-22-2019 04:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Metro State and CSU-L.A. have to fight with other D1 schools and the pro-sports for fans. Dixie State, Washburn, Colorado Mesa, Montana State-Billings, Tarleton State and other schools that do not have other schools or pro-sports teams might be the way to go. Central Washington used to be a foe against Portland State and Eastern Washington when those 2 schools were D2 at one time. So, we know fans from schools in smaller towns do travel. Eastern Washington, Boise State and North Dakota State are good examples.

(02-22-2019 04:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 01:45 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 10:59 PM)KingSean Wrote:  D2 attendance doesn't really mean a team wont have success at the D1 level. Sadly no one cares about D2 or D3 even if the team is good

Perhaps, but I would think the WAC would rather take a chance on a school that is having at least moderate success attendance wise, rather than a one that is playing in a empty gym. Seeing CSU-L.A. (316) and Metro State's (397) lack of people attending games is a little concerning. Also noting that Metro St. is only a year or so removed from playing for the Division 2 title.

I thinking that the WAC would be better served in going after (for instance) a Tarleton State, or Washburn U., who are doing reasonably well in getting people to games. You would think that moving up would only add to those figures. Those particular universities also have football, which I'm guessing would please Dixie State as well. Washburn is in Topeka however, so unless UMKC is sticking around, that may be a bit out of the WAC's preferred range.

Metro State and CSU-L.A. have to fight with other D1 schools and the pro-sports for fans. Dixie State, Washburn, Colorado Mesa, Montana State-Billings, Tarleton State and other schools that do not have other schools or pro-sports teams might be the way to go. Central Washington used to be a foe against Portland State and Eastern Washington when those 2 schools were D2 at one time. So, we know fans from schools in smaller towns do travel. Eastern Washington, Boise State and North Dakota State are good examples.

(02-22-2019 05:00 PM)Pounder Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 04:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Metro State and CSU-L.A. have to fight with other D1 schools and the pro-sports for fans. Dixie State, Washburn, Colorado Mesa, Montana State-Billings, Tarleton State and other schools that do not have other schools or pro-sports teams might be the way to go. Central Washington used to be a foe against Portland State and Eastern Washington when those 2 schools were D2 at one time. So, we know fans from schools in smaller towns do travel. Eastern Washington, Boise State and North Dakota State are good examples.

First off, Portland State never tussled with Central or Eastern when they were D2 (EWU moved to D-1 around the time PSU moved down, and Central was NAIA and/or D3). Sac State, Northridge, Cal Poly, and Santa Clara generally (and not all concurrently) made up the sort-of football conference that existed back then, and Humboldt State usually popped up on the schedule. Portland State did not have men's basketball during the entirety of their D2 days. If there was a rivalry that automatically drew fans for Portland State football, it was Texas A&I (now A&M Kingsville).

So, as to somebody's GNAC-to-WAC dreams, never mind that Western Oregon has had some recent D2 basketball success... there's more pressure on Western Oregon (and NAIA Southern and Eastern) to go to D3 than to move up. Central Washington, who basically has Yakima to draw from, isn't exactly working from a base of a lot of people from where to move up... and it's over a sometimes (like at present) troublesome mountain pass from Sea-Tac Airport. Nowhere in Montana really screams "easy to travel." Concordia gets about the same amount of attention the NAIA schools get in Portland (aka only when a national championship game happens). MAYBE Northwest Nazarene or Saint Martin's could move up and be viable for current WAC schools (where the advantage is being close to good-size markets for ease of flying). Maybe.

(02-22-2019 05:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 05:00 PM)Pounder Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 04:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Metro State and CSU-L.A. have to fight with other D1 schools and the pro-sports for fans. Dixie State, Washburn, Colorado Mesa, Montana State-Billings, Tarleton State and other schools that do not have other schools or pro-sports teams might be the way to go. Central Washington used to be a foe against Portland State and Eastern Washington when those 2 schools were D2 at one time. So, we know fans from schools in smaller towns do travel. Eastern Washington, Boise State and North Dakota State are good examples.

First off, Portland State never tussled with Central or Eastern when they were D2 (EWU moved to D-1 around the time PSU moved down, and Central was NAIA and/or D3). Sac State, Northridge, Cal Poly, and Santa Clara generally (and not all concurrently) made up the sort-of football conference that existed back then, and Humboldt State usually popped up on the schedule. Portland State did not have men's basketball during the entirety of their D2 days. If there was a rivalry that automatically drew fans for Portland State football, it was Texas A&I (now A&M Kingsville).

So, as to somebody's GNAC-to-WAC dreams, never mind that Western Oregon has had some recent D2 basketball success... there's more pressure on Western Oregon (and NAIA Southern and Eastern) to go to D3 than to move up. Central Washington, who basically has Yakima to draw from, isn't exactly working from a base of a lot of people from where to move up... and it's over a sometimes (like at present) troublesome mountain pass from Sea-Tac Airport. Nowhere in Montana really screams "easy to travel." Concordia gets about the same amount of attention the NAIA schools get in Portland (aka only when a national championship game happens). MAYBE Northwest Nazarene or Saint Martin's could move up and be viable for current WAC schools (where the advantage is being close to good-size markets for ease of flying). Maybe.

Would Seattle block Saint Martin's from joining?

Ellensberg is growing. CWU have over 12,000 students. Hop a plane to Seattle than take another plane (Alaska Airlines) to Yakima and then take a bus.

The problem with NW Nazarene is that they do not have the money. Concordia is too new. Saint Martin could be blocked.

(02-22-2019 04:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 01:45 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 10:59 PM)KingSean Wrote:  D2 attendance doesn't really mean a team wont have success at the D1 level. Sadly no one cares about D2 or D3 even if the team is good

Perhaps, but I would think the WAC would rather take a chance on a school that is having at least moderate success attendance wise, rather than a one that is playing in a empty gym. Seeing CSU-L.A. (316) and Metro State's (397) lack of people attending games is a little concerning. Also noting that Metro St. is only a year or so removed from playing for the Division 2 title.

I thinking that the WAC would be better served in going after (for instance) a Tarleton State, or Washburn U., who are doing reasonably well in getting people to games. You would think that moving up would only add to those figures. Those particular universities also have football, which I'm guessing would please Dixie State as well. Washburn is in Topeka however, so unless UMKC is sticking around, that may be a bit out of the WAC's preferred range.

Metro State and CSU-L.A. have to fight with other D1 schools and the pro-sports for fans. Dixie State, Washburn, Colorado Mesa, Montana State-Billings, Tarleton State and other schools that do not have other schools or pro-sports teams might be the way to go. Central Washington used to be a foe against Portland State and Eastern Washington when those 2 schools were D2 at one time. So, we know fans from schools in smaller towns do travel. Eastern Washington, Boise State and North Dakota State are good examples.

(02-22-2019 07:07 PM)KingSean Wrote:  Now here is a good question. Are schools able to block other schools from moving up. Like can Evansville block Southern Indiana from being D1

(02-22-2019 07:35 PM)Pounder Wrote:  However, my question: would the WAC be negligent by not asking any GNAC institutions about their desire to move up?

(02-22-2019 07:35 PM)Pounder Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 07:07 PM)KingSean Wrote:  Now here is a good question. Are schools able to block other schools from moving up. Like can Evansville block Southern Indiana from being D1

If a D-1 conference wants Southern Indiana, it's more about the schools in that conference than someone else's school. The NCAA has minimum standards, but generally goes along with the member conferences on these decisions.

If they're trying to get into Evansville's conference, yeah, that's a problem. It's less of a problem if Evansville is a black sheep in that conference and the other schools vote Southern Indiana in for spite... but that's an entertaining hypothetical and nothing to do with reality.

The question to ask in this case... is the WAC kind of a beggar? Or how much of a beggar are they? In reality, I don't see any GNAC schools stepping up to the plate, so the WAC kind of dodges the question here.

However, my question: would the WAC be negligent by not asking any GNAC institutions about their desire to move up?

(02-22-2019 09:09 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 07:35 PM)Pounder Wrote:  However, my question: would the WAC be negligent by not asking any GNAC institutions about their desire to move up?

How about ... Simon Fraser of suburban Vancouver, BC, Canada? Just 136 miles of interstate from Seattle. They became a full NCAA d2 member in 2012. They have 35,000 students, a $530 million endowment, and are a highly rated Canadian university. They have a football team, so that's a complication. You need a school that is ambitious. A school that wants to go d1 because it wants to associate with d1 schools. They certainly would seem to have the financial resources to make the jump.

Has anyone read anything about Simon Fraser's vision? Are they content to be a d2 school with 35,000 students??? Maybe the WAC goes big and bold by being the first d1 conference with a Canadian school? A lot of good athletes get recruited out of Canada into American schools. Could this become the "Keystone Pipeline" of talent into the WAC??

Plus, they have a great mascot. Meet "McFogg the Dog":

(02-22-2019 09:09 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 07:35 PM)Pounder Wrote:  However, my question: would the WAC be negligent by not asking any GNAC institutions about their desire to move up?

How about ... Simon Fraser of suburban Vancouver, BC, Canada? Just 136 miles of interstate from Seattle. They became a full NCAA d2 member in 2012. They have 35,000 students, a $530 million endowment, and are a highly rated Canadian university. They have a football team, so that's a complication. You need a school that is ambitious. A school that wants to go d1 because it wants to associate with d1 schools. They certainly would seem to have the financial resources to make the jump.

Has anyone read anything about Simon Fraser's vision? Are they content to be a d2 school with 35,000 students??? Maybe the WAC goes big and bold by being the first d1 conference with a Canadian school? A lot of good athletes get recruited out of Canada into American schools. Could this become the "Keystone Pipeline" of talent into the WAC?

(02-22-2019 07:14 PM)Pounder Wrote:  I only cited Saint Martins because they have a better gym than one might expect, men's basketball has the most recent success in the GNAC and, given Seattle traffic, they're not exactly competing with SU.

Like I said... maybe. Size doesn't always matter as much as funds able to be applied. However, I offer none of these schools without reminding anyone concerned to not hold their breath.

I'll give you this about Western Washington: prior success. Renovated arena or gym, however you want to call it. Bellingham also gets some flight traffic to interesting places because people in Vancouver sometimes don't want to pay the "crossing the border flight tax" to go to Vegas, so Alaska/Horizon and Allegiant (occasionally) fly out of there. However, their administrative decisions over the last several years do not really shout "let's move up" to me.

(02-22-2019 09:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Canadian or foreign schools can not join DI right now. Only DII schools can. Simon Fraser could start hockey and move to the WCHA now, and compete as a DI school in that sport. There is no regulation preventing that.