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+----- Thread: From twitter - All time Starting 5 (/thread-853807.html)
From twitter - All time Starting 5 - KentKrazy - 07-21-2018 01:40 PM
On twitter the Basketball team asked: Who is our All-Time Starting 5?
That's a tough question. Responses:
Andrew Mitchell
DeAndre Haynes
Trevor Huffman
Demetric Shaw
Antonio Gates
PG Andrew Mitchell
SG Ed Norvell
SG Trevor Huffman
PF Anthony Grier
C Haminn Quaintance
6th Man - Demetric Shaw
PG DeAndre Haynes
SG Trevor Huffman
SF Burrell McGee
PF Antonio Gates
C John Edward's
6th man Nate Reinking
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - goldenflash99 - 07-21-2018 05:29 PM
My knowledge only goes back about 20 years, so here are my 5 based on that period:
DeAndre Haynes
Trevor Huffman
Antonio Gates
Jimmy Hall
John Edwards
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - cschierh - 07-21-2018 08:46 PM
I think I’d take Shaw over Edwards. Maybe Q, too.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - goldenflash99 - 07-21-2018 09:08 PM
(07-21-2018 08:46 PM)cschierh Wrote: I think I’d take Shaw over Edwards. Maybe Q, too.
If I was listing my favorite players in the past 20 years, they'd be on that list.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - Muskrat - 07-22-2018 08:21 AM
Guys that warrant a "look" would include Larry Robbins, Roger Evans, Jay Peters (who only played one semester, though, his last semester of eligibility), Rod Sherman, Justin Greene, Rubin Vance, Al Fisher, Dan Potopsky…….. Really, only Huffman and Gates, and MAYBE McGee are "no brainers". The other two or three spots could be debated forever.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - dannyb73 - 07-22-2018 11:31 AM
(07-22-2018 08:21 AM)Muskrat Wrote: Guys that warrant a "look" would include Larry Robbins, Roger Evans, Jay Peters (who only played one semester, though, his last semester of eligibility), Rod Sherman, Justin Greene, Rubin Vance, Al Fisher, Dan Potopsky…….. Really, only Huffman and Gates, and MAYBE McGee are "no brainers". The other two or three spots could be debated forever.
I think it really depends if you are going top 5 players all-time or starting 5 which warrants positional consideration. I personally don't think Sherman or Fisher warrant consideration. For me, I need guys that had a great 4 year career (Gates consideration is an exception). Sherman was too quiet his first 2+ years. The guy nobody has mentioned that I think was truly responsible for the entire change in our history under Gary Waters is John Whorton. With all that said, my team looks like this:
Mitchell
Reinking
McGee
Gates
Whorton
Honorable Mention: Norvell, Haynes, Huffman, Grier, Greene, Hall, Peters, Evans
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - Muskrat - 07-22-2018 02:19 PM
Yeah, Whorton deserves consideration, as do Bill Toole and Eric Glenn.
My 5 (I guess)
Huffman
Gates
McGhee
Grier
Hall
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - pembroke1246 - 07-23-2018 06:01 AM
Trent Grooms (sp) would also be included on my list somewhere but not in the top 5.
Mitchell
Huffman
Gates
Shaw
McGhee[/u]
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - Muskrat - 07-23-2018 06:17 AM
Yeah, forgot about Trent Grooms. Ric Blevins was tough. So was Mike Scott and so many, many others. Youngblood, Omni Smith, Singletary... It really is impossible to pick 5. Heck, I though Huffman and Gates would be the only two unanimous picks, but it seems even Huffman isn't. I'd have a hard time even picking the top 10, or 12, or 13 or 15. We've had lots of good basketball players over the years, and lots of busts. Maybe someone should start the ball rolling with biggest busts, too.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - RIPWillowHouse - 07-23-2018 10:45 AM
Mitchell
Huffman
Gates
Hall
Q
6th Shaw
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - ksu315 - 07-23-2018 04:11 PM
1st team
Huffman -
Haynes
Gates
Mike Scott
Whorton
Coach - Jim Christian
2nd Team
Reinking
Mitchell
Shaw
Youngblood
Q
Coach - Gary Waters
Most Underappreciated and one of greatest persons you'll meet - Brian Bedford
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - RIPWillowHouse - 07-24-2018 09:00 AM
(07-23-2018 04:11 PM)ksu315 Wrote: 1st team
Huffman -
Haynes
Gates
Mike Scott
Whorton
Coach - Jim Christian
2nd Team
Reinking
Mitchell
Shaw
Youngblood
Q
Coach - Gary Waters
Most Underappreciated and one of greatest persons you'll meet - Brian Bedford
Bedford was the 1st person that I remember who would consistently throw up the 3 with his fingers after splashing one...now pretty much every NBA player does it every single time.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - GFlash68 - 07-24-2018 11:07 AM
This is a great beer talk thread. I will not try to narrow it down to a best starting five as it really gets us no where. I have probably watched more KSU BB than any one on this board. (back to the 60's) What we can say is that we have had 15 to 20 players during that time that are worthy to talk about. We have been fortunate to see some pretty good BB during this time frame. What is difficult, is to place each player into his proper context. That is coaching, supporting cast, 3 point arc, etc. I particularly look at all around game, IOW, do not forget defense. For example, Burrell McGhee was possible the best offensive weapon we have had, but he was allergic to defense. I am happy to see that someone remembered Big John Whorton. In total context, he was very valuable. So was Trent Grooms. I just can not pick 5 or 6 so I am gone for a Corona or two and see if that helps.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - anti-zip - 07-24-2018 08:52 PM
Interesting thread, so I'll add to it. For those unfamiliar with "Win Shares" it's a metric designed to allocate a portion of each win to an individual. It's similar to WAR in baseball as it's a stat that accumulates over time, so the more minutes someone plays, the higher their WS's will be. Therefore it's usually combined with "Win Shares per 48" to give a full picture of a players value. Win Shares is a good metric because, unlike some others, it encompasses defense as well as offense. WS is actually the sum of OWS and DWS. If anyone is bored and wants to read about it here's a better explanation. https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
I went through every season back to the 95/96 season (as far back as WS's are recorded). Here's a list of players that had an individual season with a Win Share total above 5.0. I included a couple just below of note.
1. Antonio Gates 01/02 - WS 6.5; WS/48 0.223
2. Haminn Quaintance 07/08 - WS 6.4; WS/48 0.306
3. Jimmy Hall 16/17 - WS 6.0; WS/48 0.206
4. John Edwards 03/04 - WS 5.7; WS/48 0.296
5. Mike Scott 07/08 - WS 5.7; WS/48 0.197
6. Chris Evans 12/13 - WS 5.5; WS/48 0.192
7. Trevor Huffman 01/02 - WS 5.5; WS/48 0.181
8. John Whorton 99/00 - WS 5.3; WS/48 na.
9. Trevor Huffman 00/01 - WS 5.0; WS/48 na.
10. John Whorton 98/99 - WS 5.0; WS/48 na.
11. Justin Greene 09/10 - WS 4.9; WS/48 0.206
12. Haminn Quaintance 07/08 - WS 4.8; WS/48 0.306
13. Andrew Mitchell 01/02 - WS 4.7; WS/48 0.157
One limitation of trying to use Win Shares for this type of thing is if a player never plays on a good team, he will likely never have a good chance at a WS near 5.0 in a season. However, the counter argument would be, if a player never played on a good team does he belong on the all time starting 5? Garbage time stats are a real thing.
So based on this list I would say there are 4 That are locks.
Gates, Q, Edwards, and Huffman.
I honestly believe Q might have been the best all around player we've had in the 17 years I've been watching. So the question who would be the 5th comes down to are you actually trying to build a starting 5 or just pick the 5 best players. If you're trying to build a starting 5 I think the 5th is either Mitchell or a prolific shooter like Manley to stretch the floor. Or possibly Evans but that might be a stretch playing at guard. I've always felt Evans was one of the most underappreciated players we've had. Now, if you're just saying give me the top 5 players overall regardless of position then my 5th would be Hall. Don't forget, if Hall didn't get mono as a Sophomore he could've made a serious run at the all time scoring record despite only playing 3 seasons here.
As for players before this era, I'll defer to those who saw them play.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - fallsdog - 07-25-2018 07:59 AM
If I had the ability to create a team to my liking, my 8 man roster would look like this.
G - De'Andre Haynes
G - Rodriquez Sherman
F - Antonio Gates
F - Jimmy Hall
F - Haminn Quanitance
*Trevor Huffman, Chris Singeltary and Justin Greene off the bench.
Three capable ball handlers, a legitimate big coming off the bench and a versatile defender and scorer that can spell 3 or 4 positions also on the bench.
Are these the best 8 players. Not necessarily. But they are 8 of my favorites. Jim Christian would be the coach, by the way. The automatic double down on the block would be brought back. On offense, the weave would be banished.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - bopol - 07-25-2018 10:51 PM
It's hard to get to 5 and I'm very curious to see if GFlash68 can narrow his down, but...
Guards - Huffman, Haynes, Mitchell and Shaw
Forwards - Hall, Gates, Greene, Scott and Q
Centers - Whorton and Edwards
That's 11 and I think I can't really cut it down. To round it off to 12, I'm going to include Kyrem Massey.
Notes:
* I can't really separate Q and Scott. Q was such a great leaper, but could take risks because Scott would cover up defensively if Q got beat. They were fabulous teammates in the frontcourt.
* Whorton was the best player on the first really good Kent team. He was smaller, but, in many ways could do more than Edwards for most of his career.
* Kyrem Massey was a great leader to the young team that upset Indiana in the NCAA tournament, so I'll give him kudos as he hasn't been mentioned so far.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - Muskrat - 07-26-2018 07:19 AM
GFlash68, you must then remember Tom Lagodich. he was a really good player for Kent State. He went to the same high schools as I, only a few years later.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - GFlash68 - 07-26-2018 12:01 PM
(07-26-2018 07:19 AM)Muskrat Wrote: GFlash68, you must then remember Tom Lagodich. he was a really good player for Kent State. He went to the same high schools as I, only a few years later.
I do remember him. In one game he got so hot he could not miss. I think he may hold a KSU record of some sort. He scored about 50 that night with no 3 pointers. BTW, let us not forget Doug Grayson who dropped about 35 on UNC on night. Most shots without a miss or something like that.
RE: From twitter - All time Starting 5 - Muskrat - 07-26-2018 12:44 PM
Yeah, Grayson. From Lorain, I think. He was good.