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Meta-Conference - Got Ribe - 03-14-2017 03:21 PM
I've spent some time thinking about our men's basketball scheduling difficulties. And as much as I personally like to see W&M play Bridgewater, I don't think that's very good for the program.
One idea I had was to form something I've coined a "meta-conference," which would be an association of five or so schools which share some common element, even if it's just geography. All members of the meta-conference would play all other members early in the year before regular conference play begins.
So if there are five members, everyone would play four games, two at home and two on the road. The team with the best record in the meta-conference is declared the champion, much like the service academies do with the commander-in-chief trophy.
Just seems to me to be a way to develop some rivalries and get home games at the same time. Also no reason the meta-conference would have to be limited to men's basketball.
Not sure who might be interested in this meta-conference but my invite list would include Princeton, Penn, Navy, GW, Georgetown, Maryland, American, Richmond, Liberty, VMI, Lafayette, Lehigh, Davidson, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech. Some of those are probably more likely than others, I suppose.
RE: Meta-Conference - nj alum - 03-14-2017 03:58 PM
So, it's like the Big Five in Philly.
Peninsula: ODU, Hampton, Norfolk, Tribe, Richmond.
Public Ivy: Miami (Oh), Vermont, Tribe, UVa, and Penn State.
CAA football: JMU, Tribe, Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth.
Old Southern Conference: Tribe, Richmond, VMI, ECU, Citadel.
Lost their glory: Holy Cross, Tribe, Princeton, Fordham, Iona.
Commonwealth: VPI, UVa, Richmond, Tribe, JMU.
RE: Meta-Conference - zablenoise - 03-14-2017 04:37 PM
(03-14-2017 03:58 PM)nj alum Wrote: So, it's like the Big Five in Philly.
Peninsula: ODU, Hampton, Norfolk, Tribe, Richmond.
Public Ivy: Miami (Oh), Vermont, Tribe, UVa, and Penn State.
CAA football: JMU, Tribe, Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth.
Old Southern Conference: Tribe, Richmond, VMI, ECU, Citadel.
Lost their glory: Holy Cross, Tribe, Princeton, Fordham, Iona.
Commonwealth: VPI, UVa, Richmond, Tribe, JMU.
Some of these almost make too much sense. Why aren't we already playing VMI? I'd bet they'd be willing to do a permanent home and home with us. Also this seems like as good a time as any to complain about how ridiculous it is that UR cancelled our yearly series
RE: Meta-Conference - Sitting bull - 03-14-2017 04:51 PM
I like Public Ivy.
Here's a few more:
Never Danced: Tribe, Army, The Citadel, St. Francis, Northwestern (sorry, they stick).
CAA Alums: Navy, Richmond, ECU, American, Tribe
Revolutionary (pre 1800): Tribe, Princeton, Rutgers, Harvard, Penn
Ampersand: Tribe, Emory & Henry, Washington & Lee, Texas A&M, Florida A&M
And Along Comes Mary: Tribe, Saint Mary's, Mount St. Mary's, Mary Hardin Baylor, Marymount
Horrible Losses: Delaware, Hampden Sydney, Hampton, Howard, Tribe
Used to be "Indians": Tribe, Dartmouth, Stanford, Miami OH, Eastern Michigan
Used to be Football D1: Tribe, Richmond, Colgate, Holy Cross, Xavier
Delta Bowl Alums: Tribe, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, TCU, Tulsa
Dixie Bowl Alums: Tribe, Arkansas, Wake Forest, Baylor, Samford
RE: Meta-Conference - Tribe32 - 03-14-2017 05:07 PM
I think we should ditch the CAA and get into a better hoops conference like VCU and Richmond did and figure out the rest. I'd be happy with CAA for football and A-10 for hoops and everything else. There are a lot of teams in the A-10 that are good for us geographically and similar academically.
RE: Meta-Conference - Tribal - 03-14-2017 05:48 PM
(03-14-2017 05:07 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: I think we should ditch the CAA and get into a better hoops conference like VCU and Richmond did and figure out the rest. I'd be happy with CAA for football and A-10 for hoops and everything else. There are a lot of teams in the A-10 that are good for us geographically and similar academically.A better hoops conference? We can't even win the CAAT. How do you think we'd do in the A10? BTW, the A10 would take UNCW and Charleston way before us.
One Tribe. One Family.
RE: Meta-Conference - tribeinexile - 03-14-2017 05:53 PM
I think we need to understand why we can't get anyone to play us OOC before we can make much progress on this.
Right now I am assuming that A10 won't play us because of league requirements. By that I mean UR, VCU and GMU. We do play money games against A10 schools (Dayton, URI, etc.) but that's not our objective here.
For basketball, I like VMI (traditional rival) and the service academies (I would even include Air Force) and all other Patriot League schools except maybe Loyola, MD. And any Ivy League school would be a plus.
Other than ODU (which thankfully has been willing to continue to play us) I would like Rice from Conference-USA.
I don't know if making these all-sports rivalries eases or increases the complexity but here are five that we could play in football and basketball:
ODU (I guess that would be a money game for us in football)
VMI
Army (Navy is notorious for being difficult to deal with)
Lehigh
Bucknell
Second tier options might be
Air Force
Harvard
Princeton
Holy Cross
Hampton
Again, it is so obvious we should be playing Patriot and Ivy League schools that it begs the question - why are we not?
RE: Meta-Conference - Tribe32 - 03-14-2017 06:07 PM
We would be competitive in the A-10 in basketball. Maybe lower in the beginning, but we would move up. We are getting better recruits and a larger conference would amp that up considerably. I'm all in on Tribe Hoops being the next big thing.
(03-14-2017 05:48 PM)Tribal Wrote:(03-14-2017 05:07 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: I think we should ditch the CAA and get into a better hoops conference like VCU and Richmond did and figure out the rest. I'd be happy with CAA for football and A-10 for hoops and everything else. There are a lot of teams in the A-10 that are good for us geographically and similar academically.A better hoops conference? We can't even win the CAAT. How do you think we'd do in the A10? BTW, the A10 would take UNCW and Charleston way before us.
One Tribe. One Family.
RE: Meta-Conference - tribeinexile - 03-14-2017 06:11 PM
Let's say our current objective is to fund the MBB program at an A10 level!
RE: Meta-Conference - TribePride91 - 03-14-2017 06:32 PM
(03-14-2017 05:48 PM)Tribal Wrote:(03-14-2017 05:07 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: I think we should ditch the CAA and get into a better hoops conference like VCU and Richmond did and figure out the rest. I'd be happy with CAA for football and A-10 for hoops and everything else. There are a lot of teams in the A-10 that are good for us geographically and similar academically.A better hoops conference? We can't even win the CAAT. How do you think we'd do in the A10? BTW, the A10 would take UNCW and Charleston way before us.
One Tribe. One Family.
Yeah, that is crazy. Might as well post JMU to the ACC. You can wish all you want, but if no one is inviting you..... At best, we would be invited to become the "Rice" of the A10 or the "Rutgers" of the Big 10. Let's win the CAA first.
RE: Meta-Conference - TribePride91 - 03-14-2017 06:36 PM
You don't need to be in the A10 to be successful. Look at Gonzaga and Wichita St. They are both in weaker conferences that they dominate. Of course, they might leave if it continues to appear that an at large bid is impossible from that conference. The CAA actually compares relatively favorably with both the MVC and the West Coast Conference. The West Coast was #9, the CAA #11, and the MVC #12 put of 32 leagues.
RE: Meta-Conference - zablenoise - 03-14-2017 08:21 PM
(03-14-2017 05:07 PM)Tribe32 Wrote: I think we should ditch the CAA and get into a better hoops conference like VCU and Richmond did and figure out the rest. I'd be happy with CAA for football and A-10 for hoops and everything else. There are a lot of teams in the A-10 that are good for us geographically and similar academically.I'd love to be A-10. And for me its not even about being competitive. If simply be far more interested in playing A-10 teams than CAA ones. If that means being their "Rice" I don't care. The CAA used to be a perfect home but 4 different VA schools have left for greener pastures (3 to the A-10) and the other school is gonna leave too. I know I sound like a broken record but I have no interest in playing Elon and Towson year in and year out.
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RE: Meta-Conference - Sitting bull - 03-14-2017 09:11 PM
No thanks. The A10 is made up of basketball schools. I like having rivals that are all sports with football such as Delaware and JMU - even Towson and Elon.
The CAA is a great fit for W&M. Every year we can be competitive, and are, despite doing squat to develop our exposure outside the conference.
RE: Meta-Conference - zablenoise - 03-14-2017 09:17 PM
(03-14-2017 09:11 PM)Sitting bull Wrote: No thanks. The A10 is made up of basketball schools. I like having rivals that are all sports with football such as Delaware and JMU - even Towson and Elon.The member list for CAAFB and the CAA are already so different that I've given up hope for that. If love to have the same rivals in football AND basketball but we basically already don't.
The CAA is a great fit for W&M. Every year we can be competitive, and are, despite doing squat to develop our exposure outside the conference.
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RE: Meta-Conference - Sitting bull - 03-14-2017 09:20 PM
(03-14-2017 09:17 PM)zablenoise Wrote:(03-14-2017 09:11 PM)Sitting bull Wrote: No thanks. The A10 is made up of basketball schools. I like having rivals that are all sports with football such as Delaware and JMU - even Towson and Elon.The member list for CAAFB and the CAA are already so different that I've given up hope for that. If love to have the same rivals in football AND basketball but we basically already don't.
The CAA is a great fit for W&M. Every year we can be competitive, and are, despite doing squat to develop our exposure outside the conference.
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I also never liked being in the same league with VCU and was glad they left. Same with Mason and ODU. Nothing against any of them or their fans - just never felt it was the right home.
I'm good with the schools in the CAA, a solid group.
RE: Meta-Conference - Zorch - 03-14-2017 10:35 PM
1. Even if we were interested, the A10 has no reason to take us.
2. Someone can correct me if I am wrong and if they have the data -- but other than basketball the A10 isn't good in any other sports. Meanwhile, the CAA (with the Tribe always being competitive in the mix) is well-respected in many other sports (M soccer, W soccer, XC, Tennis, Baseball, etc). I think it would be a disservice to all our other sports to move them to a lesser league just to help M Basketball. Plus, as others have already noted, in basketball we can't even win the CAA yet, so why move up to a harder league.
3. In basketball, the CAA is always rated 11th (although a few years ago we had moved up to 9th) but only the top 6 conferences get the vast vast majority of the at large bids. So it really doesn't matter if our conference is 11th or 32nd.
4. I'm all for in-state rivalries and would love to play UVa, Tech, UR, VCU, GMU, ODU, Liberty, Radford, Hampton, NSU and maybe even Longwood regularly ---- all with the exception of VMI. We used to play them regularly in football and thank goodness we finally stopped that. We were beating them by an average 37-0 score every year. Meanwhile, in basketball, they would take out their frustration at losing in football out on us on the basketball floor. It seemed like there was a scuffle or fight every year for about five years in a row until the schools finally had to call off the games. The problem with VMI is that they are a perfect fit for the Division III ODAC (Hampden-Sydney, W&L, Randy Mac, Bridgewater, etc) but they are too proud to admit it. They even moved back to the Southern Conference a few years ago -- never say die at VMI.
5. I like the Meta-Conference idea. Unfortunately, some subsequent posters lost the intent (for example, pairing us with 3 Ivys ignores the fact that those Ivys already play each other every year in their own conference). So it needs to be us and four other schools, none of whom are in the same conference with each other.
RE: Meta-Conference - Tribe32 - 03-15-2017 06:21 AM
Well, we're either moving to the Patriot league or something more competitive in basketball at some point over the next 5-10 years. Wilmington and Charleston will be gone if they continue their upward trajectory. JMU will be gone as soon as anyone will take them in FBS. This leaves the league very different for basketball, and many other men's sports. I also hope that some day we will move up to FBS in football. We just need the money. Welcome to Williamsburg, Ms. Huge.
RE: Meta-Conference - Tribe Fan - 03-15-2017 09:10 AM
Great idea even if it is for creating good competition between like minded universities to get teams ready for their own conference schedules. Watching the various mid-major conference tournaments why don't we play a Bucknell , Lafayette, and Navy ?
It seems like each year C of C plays a major level program at home. How ? The year Louisville won the NCAA they played in Charleston. I know Wake had gone there and to UNCW in past years. If a P5 team came to The Kap the town and students would attend .
RE: Meta-Conference - zablenoise - 03-15-2017 09:34 AM
(03-14-2017 10:35 PM)Zorch Wrote: 4. I'm all for in-state rivalries and would love to play UVa, Tech, UR, VCU, GMU, ODU, Liberty, Radford, Hampton, NSU and maybe even Longwood regularly ---- all with the exception of VMI. We used to play them regularly in football and thank goodness we finally stopped that. We were beating them by an average 37-0 score every year. Meanwhile, in basketball, they would take out their frustration at losing in football out on us on the basketball floor. It seemed like there was a scuffle or fight every year for about five years in a row until the schools finally had to call off the games. The problem with VMI is that they are a perfect fit for the Division III ODAC (Hampden-Sydney, W&L, Randy Mac, Bridgewater, etc) but they are too proud to admit it. They even moved back to the Southern Conference a few years ago -- never say die at VMI.
I actually love playing VMI, blowouts, fights, and all. They're probably the top Virginia school I wish we'd see more of.
RE: Meta-Conference - Tribe32 - 03-15-2017 10:47 AM
They would be a great hoops match up. Very similar styles.
(03-15-2017 09:34 AM)zablenoise Wrote:(03-14-2017 10:35 PM)Zorch Wrote: 4. I'm all for in-state rivalries and would love to play UVa, Tech, UR, VCU, GMU, ODU, Liberty, Radford, Hampton, NSU and maybe even Longwood regularly ---- all with the exception of VMI. We used to play them regularly in football and thank goodness we finally stopped that. We were beating them by an average 37-0 score every year. Meanwhile, in basketball, they would take out their frustration at losing in football out on us on the basketball floor. It seemed like there was a scuffle or fight every year for about five years in a row until the schools finally had to call off the games. The problem with VMI is that they are a perfect fit for the Division III ODAC (Hampden-Sydney, W&L, Randy Mac, Bridgewater, etc) but they are too proud to admit it. They even moved back to the Southern Conference a few years ago -- never say die at VMI.
I actually love playing VMI, blowouts, fights, and all. They're probably the top Virginia school I wish we'd see more of.