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+---- Thread: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? (/thread-639096.html)
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - 10thMountain - 07-10-2013 08:23 PM
Yeah...UT tends to ruin every conference they are a part of because they get it in their head that they bring all the value and everyone else is worthless so naturally they deserve to run the conference and have preferential treatment for all the greatness they are bringing.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - USAFMEDIC - 07-10-2013 08:40 PM
(07-10-2013 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Yeah...UT tends to ruin every conference they are a part of because they get it in their head that they bring all the value and everyone else is worthless so naturally they deserve to run the conference and have preferential treatment for all the greatness they are bringing.And they make everyone do this...
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - JRsec - 07-10-2013 08:47 PM
(07-10-2013 08:40 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:(07-10-2013 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Yeah...UT tends to ruin every conference they are a part of because they get it in their head that they bring all the value and everyone else is worthless so naturally they deserve to run the conference and have preferential treatment for all the greatness they are bringing.And they make everyone do this...
You guys do know what a Longhorn Steer is don't you? It's a neutered bull fit for nothing else than to be meat on someone else's table. And when they head out together in a herd they are all headed for slaughter. I would say that is an apt mascot for that bunch.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - 10thMountain - 07-10-2013 09:09 PM
All I'm saying is don't let them in to **** all over your pasture and tell you how good it is for you
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - vandiver49 - 07-11-2013 06:43 AM
(07-10-2013 02:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:(07-10-2013 01:57 PM)vandiver49 Wrote: JR,
You've mentioned how devastating Auburn in the West has been, since they essentially marketed themselves as Goergia's second SEC school prior to '92. Will schools like Auburn and UT survive if they are placed in the SEC Central and effectively cut off from FL and GA with regard to recruiting?
They will be no worse off than they are now and at least Tennessee would return to the annual schedule. Personally if we ever go to 16 or more teams I think a 10 game conference schedule will emerge with the regular rotation as described in the 9 game schedule and 1 permanent rival as a compromise. Even if that doesn't work out as long as Georgia and Florida are not overlapping the same year's rotation then 4 out of six years Auburn will be playing one of them. Not ideal, but for the sake of regional divisions and better travel for away games for fans it will need to be done. Auburn recruited Tennessee well prior to losing the Vols annually. Your question, however, is very valid. How do you think it would affect Tennessee's recruiting, or their game with Kentucky?
It looks as if Butch is going to mimic Stoops and try to pluck recruits out of the Ohio Valley area. If such a strategy generates a decent ROI, then I wouldn't be that concerned.
Honestly, the one thing that has hurt the Vols more than any other is a popular and competitive SCAR. Spurrier has effectively walled the state off from UT and draws decently from NC as well.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - vandiver49 - 07-11-2013 07:20 AM
(07-10-2013 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Yeah...UT tends to ruin every conference they are a part of because they get it in their head that they bring all the value and everyone else is worthless so naturally they deserve to run the conference and have preferential treatment for all the greatness they are bringing.
I don't think you can really blame them for the SWC breaking up. The financing of college athletics was changing in such a way that a Texas centric league breakup was inevitable. The one state league was never be able to generate enough eyeballs to command the TV money required to bankroll it.
And while the B12 does technically still exist (albeit at the Longhorns' sufferance) I think you are correct in stating that the Longhorns fail at generating unity with other programs that also bring value (and have options) to the conference. This inability is why I'm opposed to Texas in the SEC.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - USAFMEDIC - 07-11-2013 12:47 PM
(07-10-2013 08:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:(07-10-2013 08:40 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:(07-10-2013 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Yeah...UT tends to ruin every conference they are a part of because they get it in their head that they bring all the value and everyone else is worthless so naturally they deserve to run the conference and have preferential treatment for all the greatness they are bringing.And they make everyone do this...
You guys do know what a Longhorn Steer is don't you? It's a neutered bull fit for nothing else than to be meat on someone else's table. And when they head out together in a herd they are all headed for slaughter. I would say that is an apt mascot for that bunch.
A guy up my road breeds them. They have a bad attitude. Tried to attack my car for having a Mizzou Tiger decal on the window...
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - hawghiggs - 07-11-2013 03:37 PM
(07-10-2013 03:14 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote: Definitely, DEFINITELY, should take Texas and OU from the Big 12... That would complete the SEC.We don't need Texas in the SEC. We already have Texas A&M. UT is a cancer for any conference.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - LSUtah - 07-11-2013 04:48 PM
Agreed. To be clear I would love the brand that Texas brings...but not the luggage. My wife is an Aggie alum, so I know the drill. Oklahoma I have no issues with. In reality, it is unlikely we will never see either one in the SEC anyway.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - georgia_tech_swagger - 07-11-2013 05:38 PM
While I agree the trend is toward larger conferences (16 .. 4 pods of 4) for both scheduling and to have the power to break away from the NCAA ... I think you're selling the ACC short on future potential.
While the SEC may have the best football product on the field right now, by 2030 half the US population will live in the ACC footprint. When the ACC is making drastically more money and can afford to start throwing $4 million at (insert soulless but very good recruiting coach here) and staff and assistants and facilities and so on I think the gap will vanish.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - JRsec - 07-11-2013 07:11 PM
(07-11-2013 05:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: While I agree the trend is toward larger conferences (16 .. 4 pods of 4) for both scheduling and to have the power to break away from the NCAA ... I think you're selling the ACC short on future potential.
While the SEC may have the best football product on the field right now, by 2030 half the US population will live in the ACC footprint. When the ACC is making drastically more money and can afford to start throwing $4 million at (insert soulless but very good recruiting coach here) and staff and assistants and facilities and so on I think the gap will vanish.
You must be referring to the post where 10th broke down his version of a 4 x 18 with the ACC not remaining intact but remaining as a conference because there was not a single other post in the thread that disparaged the ACC.
I agree that growth trends are along the coast but capitalizing on them will have to be a priority of the ACC. With eventual consolidation to 4 conferences, and I do see the ACC as one of them, then more money will naturally flow to the ACC. This round of realignment has seen the ACC add schools with both basketball and football tradition. But nothing appears on the horizon to be funneling athletes to Syracuse or Pitt, or for that matter even Notre Dame. It will have to be the Carolinas, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Florida State along with Louisville that carry that load. They are the ones who will benefit the most from the change in demographics. Consistent winning will do more for the ACC than even the money. Clemson is close and Florida State is on its way back up. That's why the best remaining move for the ACC to make would be to take Texas on the same terms as Notre Dame and let them bring two schools with them for full time members. Baylor/TCU or Texas Tech and one of the Oklahomas would be a prime get for the recruiting grounds of Texas. The added markets should you get your network going (which appears to me based upon today's news to be up in the air) would be a huge boost. And, it would add the prestige of Texas to the ACC to enhance the perception of your football prowess.
The elimination of the 5th conference means that each of the remaining would likely be guaranteed a spot in the playoffs and then with expansion to 8 teams likely a second. The elimination of the 5th conference will also net between 1.5 and 2.0 million more per team in the remaining conferences per year.
So I do think things will start to level out and if they don't the networks will offer incentives to see that they do because their profit will be predicated upon keeping all 4 regions involved and you can't do that in a lopsided system. Thanks for the post on the SEC board.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - He1nousOne - 07-11-2013 09:13 PM
(07-10-2013 12:18 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:(07-09-2013 04:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:Their mistake. Okie in the B1G is the true fish out of water.....(07-09-2013 11:40 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:(07-08-2013 11:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote: I have to stray from the Kansas choice. They aren't a very good football program. Maybe you are looking at it from a different angle.
Some options:
The state of Oklahoma is southern and OU would be a good cultural fit. Oklahoma also belongs in a conference with Alabama. An elite program that would be a great addition to the already elite conference. A border war with Arkansas would be epic.
Oklahoma State would probably have to come along. Their academics would be an issue. Another great rival for Arkansas
Texas. Sooner or later the SEC is going to have to lure Texas or the Pac 12 will. Snagging a team like Oklahoma might start that process. They are stubborn and want to run the show.
Miami to expand into the south Florida Market. Cons. Violation prone.
North Carolina. Cultural fit and expansion into the Atlantic coast market
I do agree with your points about the PAC 12. Eventually they have to deal with the Big XII schools. They have no other options that meets their requirements. If the SEC doesn't grab a couple, the PAC 12 or B1G will. I do not believe the Sooners fit the PAC 12 liberal culture. I also believe their goal is not to play Northern schools all year, every year. The only upside is playing their old rival Nebraska again. I still believe they would be a natural fit for the SEC.
They would have their game against Nebraska. They would maintain ties to Kansas. The Head Coaches of Oklahoma and Iowa have history together as was talked about constantly for their Bowl Game.
The Admin of Oklahoma would absolutely push Oklahoma towards the Big Ten instead of the SEC. They would probably face some blowback on that from fans and some alumni but so did President Loh of Maryland. As long as Oklahoma can maintain it's key rivalries of Texas and Oklahoma State, then it would be just fine.
They most certainly would have a better chance to win or finish strongly in the Big Ten and the Big Ten will Never be cut out of the National Picture. Oklahoma could definitely take advantage of that.
Sure there might be some fan support for an SEC move instead but there is no way that the persons making the decisions would choose the SEC over the B1G, in my opinion.
I disagree. How would Oklahoma be a fish out of water with the likes of Kansas and Nebraska? Norman isn't all that far from Texas. It will still have a huge program and will still get plenty of Texas recruits. Oklahoma will still have a strong shot at any National Tournament in the Big Ten if they have a strong season.
I understand the talk about how Nebraska in the Big Ten may hurt some of their Texas recruiting and such but there is a very considerable geographic difference between Lincoln Nebraska and Norman Oklahoma.
I know this is the SEC Board so I am trying to be as nice about it as possible but Oklahoma would be just fine in the Big Ten. They could be just fine in the SEC too but how do you think they will do in the SEC, truthfully?
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - He1nousOne - 07-11-2013 09:18 PM
In regards to the talk about 18 vs 16. It comes down to something very simple. IF we get to either scenario by the dissolution of the Big 12 than what Texas does will be very significant as far as whether or not we move to 18 or 16.
If they join the likes of the ACC with a contract like what Notre Dame has then look for the conferences to move to 16 and stop. If we move to 18's it will be with the likes of Texas and Notre Dame belonging fully to a conference, in my opinion that conference would be the ACC.
Those two joining takes it to 18. Texas can't join for 16 because that will mess up the Math that it takes to disband the Big 12.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - JRsec - 07-11-2013 09:29 PM
(07-11-2013 09:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: In regards to the talk about 18 vs 16. It comes down to something very simple. IF we get to either scenario by the dissolution of the Big 12 than what Texas does will be very significant as far as whether or not we move to 18 or 16.
If they join the likes of the ACC with a contract like what Notre Dame has then look for the conferences to move to 16 and stop. If we move to 18's it will be with the likes of Texas and Notre Dame belonging fully to a conference, in my opinion that conference would be the ACC.
Those two joining takes it to 18. Texas can't join for 16 because that will mess up the Math that it takes to disband the Big 12.
He1nous, if Texas goes to the ACC with a hybrid deal they will want Texas schools to play as conference games. So if this happens then the ACC will have to technically go to 18 (unless two leave the ACC which I don't see happening).
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - He1nousOne - 07-11-2013 10:31 PM
(07-11-2013 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:(07-11-2013 09:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: In regards to the talk about 18 vs 16. It comes down to something very simple. IF we get to either scenario by the dissolution of the Big 12 than what Texas does will be very significant as far as whether or not we move to 18 or 16.
If they join the likes of the ACC with a contract like what Notre Dame has then look for the conferences to move to 16 and stop. If we move to 18's it will be with the likes of Texas and Notre Dame belonging fully to a conference, in my opinion that conference would be the ACC.
Those two joining takes it to 18. Texas can't join for 16 because that will mess up the Math that it takes to disband the Big 12.
He1nous, if Texas goes to the ACC with a hybrid deal they will want Texas schools to play as conference games. So if this happens then the ACC will have to technically go to 18 (unless two leave the ACC which I don't see happening).
The ACC is at 14. Two more Texas teams is then 16. Texas and Notre Dame at hybrid deals. That gives everything you just said Texas would want.
The decision would be about whether or not Texas and Notre Dame end up feeling they need to be in conference and part of any tournament the conference might hold. If the National Tournament doesn't have any strict tie in to conference championships then Notre Dame and perhaps Texas wont feel any need to take part in any conference tournaments or championships. They both can get in with their names and a strong enough season.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - JRsec - 07-11-2013 10:46 PM
(07-11-2013 10:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:(07-11-2013 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:(07-11-2013 09:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: In regards to the talk about 18 vs 16. It comes down to something very simple. IF we get to either scenario by the dissolution of the Big 12 than what Texas does will be very significant as far as whether or not we move to 18 or 16.
If they join the likes of the ACC with a contract like what Notre Dame has then look for the conferences to move to 16 and stop. If we move to 18's it will be with the likes of Texas and Notre Dame belonging fully to a conference, in my opinion that conference would be the ACC.
Those two joining takes it to 18. Texas can't join for 16 because that will mess up the Math that it takes to disband the Big 12.
He1nous, if Texas goes to the ACC with a hybrid deal they will want Texas schools to play as conference games. So if this happens then the ACC will have to technically go to 18 (unless two leave the ACC which I don't see happening).
The ACC is at 14. Two more Texas teams is then 16. Texas and Notre Dame at hybrid deals. That gives everything you just said Texas would want.
The decision would be about whether or not Texas and Notre Dame end up feeling they need to be in conference and part of any tournament the conference might hold. If the National Tournament doesn't have any strict tie in to conference championships then Notre Dame and perhaps Texas wont feel any need to take part in any conference tournaments or championships. They both can get in with their names and a strong enough season.
And in order to play who they desire to play that is exactly what they would have to do. I think that is why Texas is now pushing a 6 team Texahoma deal.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - 10thMountain - 07-12-2013 10:23 AM
6 team Texoma deal? Who besides them and OU/OSU/TTU?
(I hadn't heard this latest rumor)
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - bigblueblindness - 07-12-2013 11:06 AM
(07-12-2013 10:23 AM)10thMountain Wrote: 6 team Texoma deal? Who besides them and OU/OSU/TTU?
(I hadn't heard this latest rumor)
I hadn't heard that, either, but I assume it would be Baylor and TCU to gain their votes for Big 12 dissolution. They are not going to dissolve unless they are going to a better situation.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - LSUtah - 07-12-2013 11:40 AM
(07-12-2013 11:06 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:(07-12-2013 10:23 AM)10thMountain Wrote: 6 team Texoma deal? Who besides them and OU/OSU/TTU?
(I hadn't heard this latest rumor)
I hadn't heard that, either, but I assume it would be Baylor and TCU to gain their votes for Big 12 dissolution. They are not going to dissolve unless they are going to a better situation.
I have not heard of a "Texoma 6" either, however your reasoning for doing so is sound. I still see major hurdles though for that PAC18 model as it requires university presidents voting to bring in 2 faith based institutions with Baylor/TCU. This also shifts voting majority out of the traditional PAC 8 hands and into Texas...and we have already seen how this worked out for the old Big 8.
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - georgia_tech_swagger - 07-12-2013 12:31 PM
Ugh. I have zero interest in conference games all the way in Texas. That's a solid 16 hours drive from the nearest ACC member. If I had my druthers, I'd constitute the ACC as:
ACC Atlantic South:
Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
ACC Atlantic North:
North Carolina
NC State
Virginia Tech
Duke
ACC Coastal South:
Virginia
Maryland
Cincinnati
Louisville
ACC Coastal North:
Syracuse
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Boston College