+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: The Kyra Memorial Spin Room (/forum-540.html)
+---- Thread: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close (/thread-499278.html)
IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Know Nothing - 06-03-2011 10:09 AM
This is how the state power grab works: 1. Flood the charities and welfare market with so many government dollars that private entities cannot effectively compete without receiving government aid. 2. Begin attaching strings to that money to the point where private charities are forced to either get out of the charity/welfare sector or sign on to the state's secular liberal agenda. 3. Watch as the private charities genuflect before the state or disappear entirely.
Quote:The civil unions act, which took effect on June 1, does not allow child welfare agencies to restrict their adoption and foster care work to married heterosexual couples, even in cases where these agencies partner with religious groups.
“The state of Illinois has stated its intention to require agencies with which it contracts, to accept unmarried cohabitating couples for state-funded adoption and foster-care licenses once the civil unions law takes effect,” they explained.
In keeping with Church teaching on marriage and the family, Catholic Charities opposes adoption and fostering by unmarried heterosexual couples as well as same-sex partners.
“Being a party to a contract with the state of Illinois would require Catholic Charities to accept couples other than a married man and woman as adoptive and foster parents,” Lynch and Wiegert noted. “This would violate the teachings of the Catholic Church.”
That is why Catholic Charities “discontinued its current contracts with the state of Illinois,” and why it “cannot enter into contracts” with the state to provide such services in the future.
The change in state law will force Catholic Charities to lay off 42 caseworkers and 24 other employees, who have been overseeing 350 foster care and adoption cases. All of Catholic Charities' non-state funded services, including private adoptions, will continue after the transition.
Catholic Charities had previously sought a compromise which would have allowed its caseworkers to refer homosexual partners and unmarried heterosexual couples to other adoption agencies, while continuing their state-funded work in cases that did not violate Catholic principles.
But Lynch and Wiegert noted in their editorial that this kind of compromise still “would not have resolved the question of whether the civil unions law applies to religious entities providing state-funded services.”
“Nor would such an offer have prevented an aggrieved couple from filing suit against Catholic Charities when referred to another agency,” they pointed out.
In the end, they said, “Catholic Charities decided not to accept any state money, and to not enter into a contract with the state, because Catholic Charities will not compromise its moral teachings.”
It was ironic, they noted, for a Church ministry to be forced to discontinue its adoption partnership, for refusing to compromise the same faith that had brought the partnership into being.
The entire article can be read here:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/diocese-says-civil-union-law-put-an-end-to-adoption-partnership/
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Native Georgian - 06-03-2011 10:35 AM
This will become more common, especially in Democrat-controlled states and jurisdictions. Only way to prevent it would be a profound spiritual change on the part of the people who live in those places. I suppose that is possible, but looking back over recent decades, I honestly don't see any reason to expect that.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - DrTorch - 06-03-2011 10:58 AM
Tragic. And a complete affront to the 1st Amendment.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - HuskieFan84 - 06-03-2011 11:03 AM
If this money goes to secular adoption agencies, I don't see any problem, if the state just keeps it and leaves these kids and case workers out in the cold, then there's clearly a problem.
I don't think it's that outlandish to receive state dollars, you have to play by the rules.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Lord Stanley - 06-03-2011 11:29 AM
I know there is a lot of this that and the other when looking at this situation, but I can't for the life of me understand how this is good for anyone.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - DrTorch - 06-03-2011 11:36 AM
(06-03-2011 11:03 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: If this money goes to secular adoption agencies, I don't see any problem, if the state just keeps it and leaves these kids and case workers out in the cold, then there's clearly a problem.
I don't think it's that outlandish to receive state dollars, you have to play by the rules.
Then you don't understand the 1st Amendment.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Native Georgian - 06-03-2011 11:39 AM
(06-03-2011 11:29 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand how this is good for anyone.For secular-minded people, living secular lives, wishing to live in a secular-dominated society, and wishing for religious-motivated people and institutions to be socially and legally marginalized, this is very "good", indeed.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Know Nothing - 06-03-2011 11:48 AM
(06-03-2011 11:03 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: If this money goes to secular adoption agencies, I don't see any problem, if the state just keeps it and leaves these kids and case workers out in the cold, then there's clearly a problem.
I don't think it's that outlandish to receive state dollars, you have to play by the rules.
The issue is that the state of Illinois is changing the rules in the middle of the game. The Catholic Church has been operating charitable services in what is today Illinois since 1673(140+ years before Illinois even existed as state) and has for 2000 years maintained its teaching that a married man and woman provide the proper environment for raising children. And by all accounts the Church was doing a pretty good job, being both one of the largest providers of adoption services and ranked 2nd best in the state by an independent study.
Now the Illinois legislature has passed a law that forces Catholic charities to decide between providing charitable services and its core teachings. The Church asked for an exemption for religious organizations, but was denied because politicians in Illinois are less interested in the well being of children than they are in implementing a radical social agenda.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Native Georgian - 06-03-2011 11:52 AM
(06-03-2011 11:48 AM)Know Nothing Wrote: politicians in Illinois are less interested in the well being of children than they are in implementing a radical social agenda.Quite so. Something to think about, especially for people who live in Illinois or may do so in the future.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Lord Stanley - 06-03-2011 11:52 AM
(06-03-2011 11:39 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:(06-03-2011 11:29 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand how this is good for anyone.For secular-minded people, living secular lives, wishing to live in a secular-dominated society, and wishing for religious-motivated people and institutions to be socially and legally marginalized, this is very "good", indeed.
Well, to be honest I was more along the lines of "won't someone think of the children" in this situation, as opposed to Yatheists collecting cheap points.
But I hear what you are saying.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - DrTorch - 06-03-2011 12:37 PM
(06-03-2011 11:39 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:(06-03-2011 11:29 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand how this is good for anyone.For secular-minded people, living secular lives, wishing to live in a secular-dominated society, and wishing for religious-motivated people and institutions to be socially and legally marginalized, this is very "good", indeed.
Not in the least. It's patently absurd to say so.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - HuskieFan84 - 06-03-2011 12:54 PM
LS.. that's why I said if the money ends up still going to children, just through secular channels, then I don't see a problem here. My concern is the state just keeps the money and the kids are left in the cold. That clearly would not be acceptable.
If you're not paying taxes due to being a church, I find it hard for them to complain about not receiving tax dollars for funding, when they don't play by the state's rules. And yes.. the game did change midway through, but that's America for you, laws have been changing since the day this country was established. Times change, if the church doesn't want to keep up with secular society, that's their choice, no one is stopping them from doing things their own way, they just have to do it with their own money. There's no reason secular tax dollars need to go to them.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - DrTorch - 06-03-2011 01:12 PM
(06-03-2011 12:54 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: There's no reason secular tax dollars need to go to them.
Actually, I can think of multiple reasons.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - HuskieFan84 - 06-03-2011 01:36 PM
Would you like to share with the class?
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Bull_In_Exile - 06-03-2011 02:32 PM
(06-03-2011 01:36 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: Would you like to share with the class?
They do it better and have been doing it longer than anyone else
They do it more cost effectively than the gov't could
They were more than willing to refer any homosexuals to a provider that would service them.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - DrTorch - 06-03-2011 02:48 PM
(06-03-2011 01:36 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: Would you like to share with the class?
They do the job better.
It's their tax dollars too. Just b/c you pay taxes doesn't mean you lose all say as to where they go, and many people are happy w/ what this organization does. The fact that there are other organizations that do things differently means everyone has been represented. It is NOT representation to say that your opinions are void b/c they're religious.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Native Georgian - 06-03-2011 11:31 PM
(06-03-2011 12:37 PM)DrTorch Wrote:(06-03-2011 11:39 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:(06-03-2011 11:29 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand how this is good for anyone.For secular-minded people, living secular lives, wishing to live in a secular-dominated society, and wishing for religious-motivated people and institutions to be socially and legally marginalized, this is very "good", indeed.
Not in the least. It's patently absurd to say so.
Ask some secular people and see what they say.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - TampaKnight - 06-04-2011 07:17 AM
Can't entirely blame the state. The voters share in this blame as well. I guess that's what you get for having Chicago in your state...
I pray those children find a home.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - DrTorch - 06-04-2011 11:22 AM
(06-03-2011 11:31 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:(06-03-2011 12:37 PM)DrTorch Wrote:(06-03-2011 11:39 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:(06-03-2011 11:29 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I can't for the life of me understand how this is good for anyone.For secular-minded people, living secular lives, wishing to live in a secular-dominated society, and wishing for religious-motivated people and institutions to be socially and legally marginalized, this is very "good", indeed.
Not in the least. It's patently absurd to say so.
Ask some secular people and see what they say.
That doesn't make it less absurd. Too bad logic is such an anathema for most people.
RE: IL Catholic adoption agencies forced to close - Native Georgian - 06-04-2011 01:05 PM
(06-04-2011 11:22 AM)DrTorch Wrote:I think it does, since I am describing the opinions of secular-type people. Like it or not, I suspect they are strongly in favor of this outcome (i.e., the exclusion of Catholic Charities from the adoption process in Illinois).(06-03-2011 11:31 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:That doesn't make it less absurd.(06-03-2011 12:37 PM)DrTorch Wrote: Not in the least. It's patently absurd to say so.Ask some secular people and see what they say.
In fact, I think that things like this are actually "mild" and "moderate", compared to what's coming over the horizon, if present trends continue. As bad as things are now, they can and probably will get much worse. That goes both for orphans and adoptive parents in Illinois, and all the rest of us.