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Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - WoodlandsOwl - 02-22-2011 09:02 AM
BREAKING NEWS
Time to go Pirate Hunting...
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - Lord Stanley - 02-22-2011 09:10 AM
I would applaud Obama till my hands hurt if a dozen Thomahawks hit pirate hotspots on the Somali coast.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - WoodlandsOwl - 02-22-2011 09:14 AM
(02-22-2011 09:10 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I would applaud Obama till my hands hurt if a dozen Thomahawks hit pirate hotspots on the Somali coast.
I would too. The complicating factor is that the Pirates have over 600 hostages ashore. And you know after this incident, they will be using them as Human Shields.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - Motown Bronco - 02-22-2011 09:23 AM
I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - Lord Stanley - 02-22-2011 09:32 AM
(02-22-2011 09:14 AM)WMD Owl Wrote:(02-22-2011 09:10 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I would applaud Obama till my hands hurt if a dozen Thomahawks hit pirate hotspots on the Somali coast.
I would too. The complicating factor is that the Pirates have over 600 hostages ashore. And you know after this incident, they will be using them as Human Shields.
Amend my statement to read
"After successful pre-dawn rescue missions by American, French, Kenyan and Chinese Special Forces, Indian frigates, Canadian submarines and a Singaporean corvette in the Arabian sea launched two dozen Tomahawk cruise missiles at important pirate staging points along the Somali coast. The damage to the pirate infrastructure was devastating."
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - SumOfAllFears - 02-22-2011 09:40 AM
Destroy every pirate boat in the region and set up a Naval base to support Bahrain.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - ClairtonPanther - 02-22-2011 10:11 AM
(02-22-2011 09:23 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
Definitely a good idea.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - Lord Stanley - 02-22-2011 10:27 AM
(02-22-2011 10:11 AM)animus Wrote:(02-22-2011 09:23 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
Definitely a good idea.
Sorry to rain on the parade, but a US flagged commercial vessel would be, and is now, a giant red warning flag to the pirates, specifically for the reasons you mention above plus the probabilty of a military response.
It's a hell of a lot easier to board a foreign, non-western steamship with a flag of convienience, as those countries have little force projection.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - WoodlandsOwl - 02-22-2011 10:27 AM
(02-22-2011 10:11 AM)animus Wrote:(02-22-2011 09:23 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
Definitely a good idea.
Its the old "Q Ship" idea that has been around since World War I. The problem is that they will avoid American flagged Ships like the plague.
Best to station a couple of squads of Dyncorp "Security Contractors" on some Liberian flagged Container Ship, and its "Surprise Surprise"...
However I think the Pirates have a source inside the International Shipping Insurance Companies, because their interception navigation is just too good. Without aviation assets they can find the ship they want 600 miles off the Coast. (I wonder how they pull that off).
These Insurance Companies know the position of the ships at all times, and because of underwriting requirements, who know which ships are armed and which are not.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - Lord Stanley - 02-22-2011 10:33 AM
(02-22-2011 10:27 AM)WMD Owl Wrote: These Insurance Companies know the position of the ships at all times, and because of underwriting requirements, who know which ships are armed and which are not.
I am almost positive, though not 100% positive, that insurance companies will not write a policy on a steamship with arms on board. Doesn't mean the captain doesn't have an old Webley under his pea jacket, but could you imagine a Filipino firing a gun at a Panamanian while in port in Bremen?
Holy mess. Holy INSURANCE mess.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - smn1256 - 02-22-2011 11:48 AM
I think the time for doing as little as possible has ended. Some people just need to start disappearing.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - nomad2u2001 - 02-22-2011 12:00 PM
In order to handle this, we will need to place some kind of base on the shore. My suggestion is a Coast Guard station with PSUs, MSSTs, and cutters there. The USCG already has a presence out there but they are under an all-Navy command and let's face it, the Navy isn't the best for the bulk of the job. When you want to perform an mission to intercept vessels, you want to give it to the service that actually intercepts vessels.
It is going to require a growth in the Guard though.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - ClairtonPanther - 02-22-2011 12:07 PM
(02-22-2011 12:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: In order to handle this, we will need to place some kind of base on the shore. My suggestion is a Coast Guard station with PSUs, MSSTs, and cutters there. The USCG already has a presence out there but they are under an all-Navy command and let's face it, the Navy isn't the best for the bulk of the job. When you want to perform an mission to intercept vessels, you want to give it to the service that actually intercepts vessels.
It is going to require a growth in the Guard though.
If we ended the war on drugs, it'll be possible without major growth to the USCG. The FFG platform is a ship that could help the USCG hunt them down.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - WoodlandsOwl - 02-22-2011 12:40 PM
(02-22-2011 12:07 PM)animus Wrote:(02-22-2011 12:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: In order to handle this, we will need to place some kind of base on the shore. My suggestion is a Coast Guard station with PSUs, MSSTs, and cutters there. The USCG already has a presence out there but they are under an all-Navy command and let's face it, the Navy isn't the best for the bulk of the job. When you want to perform an mission to intercept vessels, you want to give it to the service that actually intercepts vessels.
It is going to require a growth in the Guard though.
If we ended the war on drugs, it'll be possible without major growth to the USCG. The FFG platform is a ship that could help the USCG hunt them down.
Knowing the F'ed up Navy Leadership, they will use this as an excuse to push more purchases of the Littoral Combat Ship POS.
"You don't have to use a DDG to hunt Pirates, use a LCS"
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - ClairtonPanther - 02-22-2011 12:46 PM
(02-22-2011 12:40 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(02-22-2011 12:07 PM)animus Wrote:(02-22-2011 12:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: In order to handle this, we will need to place some kind of base on the shore. My suggestion is a Coast Guard station with PSUs, MSSTs, and cutters there. The USCG already has a presence out there but they are under an all-Navy command and let's face it, the Navy isn't the best for the bulk of the job. When you want to perform an mission to intercept vessels, you want to give it to the service that actually intercepts vessels.
It is going to require a growth in the Guard though.
If we ended the war on drugs, it'll be possible without major growth to the USCG. The FFG platform is a ship that could help the USCG hunt them down.
Knowing the F'ed up Navy Leadership, they will use this as an excuse to push more purchases of the Littoral Combat Ship POS.
"You don't have to use a DDG to hunt Pirates, use a LCS"
Yea I agree.
I was on an FFG. Its practically the best platform for this job. I've seen a few LCS's and read some story's. If I'm not mistaken the LCS is the replacement for the FFG.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - nomad2u2001 - 02-22-2011 01:20 PM
(02-22-2011 12:07 PM)animus Wrote:(02-22-2011 12:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: In order to handle this, we will need to place some kind of base on the shore. My suggestion is a Coast Guard station with PSUs, MSSTs, and cutters there. The USCG already has a presence out there but they are under an all-Navy command and let's face it, the Navy isn't the best for the bulk of the job. When you want to perform an mission to intercept vessels, you want to give it to the service that actually intercepts vessels.
It is going to require a growth in the Guard though.
If we ended the war on drugs, it'll be possible without major growth to the USCG. The FFG platform is a ship that could help the USCG hunt them down.
I think the war on drugs does hold us back to an extent. I'm one that believes that the war on drugs needs to be stopped domestically before we can really do work on what's coming through our waters. I still say that we need to let the Coast Guard operate independently for the best results. Not saying that the Navy shouldn't be involved.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - Bull_In_Exile - 02-22-2011 03:29 PM
(02-22-2011 09:23 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
I had the same thought... The Navy needs a few cargo ships and a few ships that look like this yacht crewed by special forces folks..
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - CountryRedHawk - 02-22-2011 05:44 PM
Q ships worked wonders for the Brits in WWI! Let's do it!
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - NIU007 - 02-22-2011 06:19 PM
(02-22-2011 03:29 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:(02-22-2011 09:23 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
I had the same thought... The Navy needs a few cargo ships and a few ships that look like this yacht crewed by special forces folks..
I got the impression somewhere they were already trying to do that.
I know the shippers would rather just pay ransom than actually have military people on their ships, which is another possibility. That might change now though, with hostages being killed.
RE: Somali Pirates Kill 4 American Hostages - WoodlandsOwl - 02-22-2011 06:58 PM
(02-22-2011 06:19 PM)NIU007 Wrote:(02-22-2011 03:29 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:(02-22-2011 09:23 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: I've always thought that maybe the US Navy should commission or create a few US-flagged "cargo" looking ships as bait, and go crusing around the horn of Africa. Once pirates try to seize what they think is a cargo ship, the navy wipes them out. From that point on, whenever the pirates see a US-flagged merchant ship, they'll have to start wondering, "hmm... do I consider myself lucky, or this is a set up?" Plant some seeds of doubt.
Probably too simplistic in the whole scheme of things, but it can't hurt.
I had the same thought... The Navy needs a few cargo ships and a few ships that look like this yacht crewed by special forces folks..
I got the impression somewhere they were already trying to do that.
I know the shippers would rather just pay ransom than actually have military people on their ships, which is another possibility. That might change now though, with hostages being killed.
The problem is the "insurance issue'.. you may not get coverage if you have an armed detail onboard.
And the Pirates probably have a source inside the Insurance agencies-- they will know which ships are armed, have security, etc.. and won't hit them.
They DO have a "inside source"... nobody could intercept a ship 700 miles off the coast of Kenya without a "tip."