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Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - mlb - 02-20-2011 07:26 PM
Quote: Teachers Teachers with Teachers
Years with Less Teachers with Five Years of with
of than a Bachelor's Training, but a Master's
Service Bachelor's Degree no Master's Degree or
Degree Degree Higher
Per Dollar Per Dollar Per Dollar Per Dollar
Cent* Amount Cent* Amount Cent* Amount Cent* Amount
0 86.5 $17,300 100.0 $20,000 103.8 $20,760 109.5 $21,900
1 90.0 18,000 103.8 20,760 108.1 21,620 114.3 22,860
2 93.5 18,700 107.6 21,520 112.4 22,480 119.1 23,820
3 97.0 19,400 111.4 22,280 116.7 23,340 123.9 24,780
4 100.5 20,100 115.2 23,040 121.0 24,200 128.7 25,740
5 104.0 20,800 119.0 23,800 125.3 25,060 133.5 26,700
6 104.0 20,800 122.8 24,560 129.6 25,920 138.3 27,660
7 104.0 20,800 126.6 25,320 133.9 26,780 143.1 28,620
8 104.0 20,800 130.4 26,080 138.2 27,640 147.9 29,580
9 104.0 20,800 134.2 26,840 142.5 28,500 152.7 30,540
10 104.0 20,800 138.0 27,600 146.8 29,360 157.5 31,500
11 104.0 20,800 141.8 28,360 151.1 30,220 162.3 32,460
Not sure how that chart is going to come out... basically, a teacher with a bachelors degree is supposed to start at $20K a year. A teacher with a masters degree or higher and 11 years in gets $32,460. Seriously? Who do they expect to teach at these rates? You are going to pay them lower rates that cashiers are paid at local grocery stores at that rate.
Got it from here:
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText129/129_SB_5_PSC_N.html
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - ClairtonPanther - 02-20-2011 07:40 PM
At first glance I'd have to agree with you. But what I think we all need to remember is they teach 180 days of the year. That's literally half of the year. If they worked an entire year like you and me, a teacher starting would make double what they're making basing things off of that chart. I'd say 30k is a fair rate to start at and a teacher with 11 years of experience with a masters or higher should get about 40k. Just basing those numbers from that chart. What do they currently make?
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - Hambone10 - 02-20-2011 07:41 PM
This LOOKS like a marked-up existing bill, with some code apparently dating back to the 50's... so it's a bit hard to tell if it says what you say it says. FTR, there are some hourly wages for board members below $6/hr, which I'm confident is below the Min wage in Ohio.
Given that we're talking about Wisconson paying an average 2-3 times higher... I suspect something is missing here.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - smn1256 - 02-20-2011 07:49 PM
(02-20-2011 07:41 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: This LOOKS like a marked-up existing bill, with some code apparently dating back to the 50's... so it's a bit hard to tell if it says what you say it says. FTR, there are some hourly wages for board members below $6/hr, which I'm confident is below the Min wage in Ohio.
Given that we're talking about Wisconson paying an average 2-3 times higher... I suspect something is missing here.
i'd agree. After taking a quick look I saw that the Lt Gov only makes $64k. Somehow I don't see that happening.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - mlb - 02-20-2011 07:50 PM
Actually, it is based on a 1994 bill. It is, however, the bill up for vote in the Ohio Senate.
On a side note, days a year does not equal hours worked in a year, animus.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - ClairtonPanther - 02-20-2011 08:05 PM
(02-20-2011 07:50 PM)mlb Wrote: Actually, it is based on a 1994 bill. It is, however, the bill up for vote in the Ohio Senate.
On a side note, days a year does not equal hours worked in a year, animus.
I realize that. 8 times 180 = 1,440 hrs worked in a year. I work roughly 40 hrs a week for 52 weeks which is 2080 hrs a year and make about $20,800 a year. So teachers under that budget plan still make 2X the money I do even though on our taxes it would be about the same.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - mlb - 02-20-2011 08:17 PM
(02-20-2011 08:05 PM)animus Wrote:(02-20-2011 07:50 PM)mlb Wrote: Actually, it is based on a 1994 bill. It is, however, the bill up for vote in the Ohio Senate.
On a side note, days a year does not equal hours worked in a year, animus.
I realize that. 8 times 180 = 1,440 hrs worked in a year. I work roughly 40 hrs a week for 52 weeks which is 2080 hrs a year and make about $20,800 a year. So teachers under that budget plan still make 2X the money I do even though on our taxes it would be about the same.
Do you meet with students or parents before or after school? Grade papers? Make lesson plans? Make tests? Take classes (that you pay for, btw) in order to keep your job?
They work at least 2080 hours a year.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - Hambone10 - 02-20-2011 08:24 PM
(02-20-2011 07:50 PM)mlb Wrote: Actually, it is based on a 1994 bill. It is, however, the bill up for vote in the Ohio Senate.
Can't be... One of the stricken lines about salary ranges is from 1991, and late in the document it talks about people hired after 1957. I think, like MANY legal documents, that which is laid moot by other legislation (such as minimum wages) are left and ignored, not purged. There are also references to dates in 2009 and 2011 that have now been stricken, which makes NO sense for a document written in 1994. Of course, in 1994, the min wage was about $4.60 or $9200 for a 50 week year... $20,000 doesn't look as bad in that light.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - Motown Bronco - 02-20-2011 08:31 PM
(02-20-2011 08:17 PM)mlb Wrote:(02-20-2011 08:05 PM)animus Wrote:(02-20-2011 07:50 PM)mlb Wrote: Actually, it is based on a 1994 bill. It is, however, the bill up for vote in the Ohio Senate.
On a side note, days a year does not equal hours worked in a year, animus.
I realize that. 8 times 180 = 1,440 hrs worked in a year. I work roughly 40 hrs a week for 52 weeks which is 2080 hrs a year and make about $20,800 a year. So teachers under that budget plan still make 2X the money I do even though on our taxes it would be about the same.
Do you meet with students or parents before or after school? Grade papers? Make lesson plans? Make tests? Take classes (that you pay for, btw) in order to keep your job?
As I said in another thread... Every salaried profession requires more than 40 hours per week.
Bring work home during evenings or weekends to finish up a project, wrap up files, create a presentation deck, etc. Battle traffic, weather, and crazy airports to meet with clients, if your job requires travel. Everyone's on an equal playing field. There seems to be this notion from the Teacher crowd that they're the only ones that need to pull out the laptop and work on their 'own time'.
Quote:They work at least 2080 hours a year.
No, they don't.
Subtracting the dozen or so weeks off per year and calculating it out from there, this would assume teachers work an average of 55-60 hours per week. Indeed, all teachers I've known work an extra hour or two per day beyond the official 7-hour classtime. But none work anywhere close to 2080 per year.
And if they weren't already off for yet another weeklong break this week, they'd be getting a "snow day" here in the Detroit area tomorrow.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - mlb - 02-20-2011 08:33 PM
(02-20-2011 08:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: Can't be... One of the stricken lines about salary ranges is from 1991, and late in the document it talks about people hired after 1957. I think, like MANY legal documents, that which is laid moot by other legislation (such as minimum wages) are left and ignored, not purged. There are also references to dates in 2009 and 2011 that have now been stricken, which makes NO sense for a document written in 1994. Of course, in 1994, the min wage was about $4.60 or $9200 for a 50 week year... $20,000 doesn't look as bad in that light.
Fair point... I thought I read somewhere 1994. Either way, this is the exact bill up for discussion in the state senate currently. Seems to me it should be thrown out completely and rewritten at this point.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - mlb - 02-20-2011 08:39 PM
(02-20-2011 08:31 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: As I said in another thread... Every salaried profession requires more than 40 hours per week.
Bring work home during evenings or weekends to finish up a project, wrap up files, create a presentation deck, etc. Battle traffic, weather, and crazy airports to meet with clients, if your job requires travel. Everyone's on an equal playing field. There seems to be this notion from the Teacher crowd that they're the only ones that need to pull out the laptop and work on their 'own time'.
I get bonuses based on my effectiveness (usually OT helps with that)... at least get opportunity to make more money based on profitability of the company. I'd venture to guess than 75% of "professional" workers get similar treatment. Most teachers do not get a bonus based on how much their students improve during the year.
Quote:Quote:They work at least 2080 hours a year.
No, they don't.
Subtracting the dozen or so weeks off per year and calculating it out from there, this would assume teachers work an average of 55-60 hours per week. Indeed, all teachers I've known work an extra hour or two per day beyond the official 7-hour classtime. But none work anywhere close to 2080 per year.
I am witness to it. Sorry you have not seen it. I have seen a person win my local school district's local teacher of the year award multiple times, and see her work 2300+ hours in the "9 months" a year so often quoted. Is 2300 outside of the norm? Absolutely. Is 2080? I highly doubt it.
I have said it before and I will say it again... things can change and be better, no doubt. The constant finger pointing at the teachers is absolutely ridiculous, IMO. Start with the people at top. Teachers only do what they are told.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - Hambone10 - 02-20-2011 09:32 PM
(02-20-2011 08:33 PM)mlb Wrote: Fair point... I thought I read somewhere 1994. Either way, this is the exact bill up for discussion in the state senate currently. Seems to me it should be thrown out completely and rewritten at this point.You probably did... that was the date of ONE of the amendments... and I agree. I remember selling my last house and the original deed dated to the 40's... According to the deed... I wasn't allowed to sell it to a "person of color" without my neighbors aprooval... and my outhouse couldn't be less than 5 feet from the property line.
(02-20-2011 08:39 PM)mlb Wrote: Most teachers do not get a bonus based on how much their students improve during the year.
Texas is trying this... of course the teachers union sued
Quote:I have said it before and I will say it again... things can change and be better, no doubt. The constant finger pointing at the teachers is absolutely ridiculous, IMO. Start with the people at top. Teachers only do what they are told.
I can state for a fact that Texas has a HUGE bloated school beauracracy... of course, PART of this is as a result of the union. We could lay off administrators and pay teachers more... if we were allowed to... but as soon as someone suggests it, out come the "endangering our kids future" chants.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - smn1256 - 02-20-2011 10:30 PM
(02-20-2011 08:39 PM)mlb Wrote: Most teachers do not get a bonus based on how much their students improve during the year.
Fair enough. And most people don't gets jobs with tenure making them impossible to fire. Face it, for many teachers the bonus comes in the form of keeping their jobs.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - CountryRedHawk - 02-20-2011 11:17 PM
My mother retired after 33+ years, teaching in the class room(kindegarten for ten years), and 23+ years as a School Psychologist, making 47,000 a year. She supported two children on her own. How is that just? She worked from 4am-10pm most weekdays, and did reports etc. on weekends. and was only paid for M-F 8am-5pm... how is that justified or fair?
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - Owl 69/70/75 - 02-20-2011 11:36 PM
(02-20-2011 11:17 PM)CountryRedHawk Wrote: My mother retired after 33+ years, teaching in the class room(kindegarten for ten years), and 23+ years as a School Psychologist, making 47,000 a year. She supported two children on her own. How is that just? She worked from 4am-10pm most weekdays, and did reports etc. on weekends. and was only paid for M-F 8am-5pm... how is that justified or fair?
What is unjustified or unfair about that?
Seriously.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - CountryRedHawk - 02-20-2011 11:44 PM
The salary itself! Then they cut her retirement, and her retirement benefits. Now, they told her they are looking at cutting them AGAIN, and making her pay fully for medical insurance! I mean, the woman spent the best years of her life teaching and help other people's children, making less than she should have.
Are you an educator Owl? I don't know, so I'm unsure if you understand the hours involved... but when my sister and I went to school, we were forbidden from EVER being educators. She said it is one of the most disrespected, unappreciated jobs ever. Kinda sad for a woman who loves kids...
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - Motown Bronco - 02-21-2011 12:03 AM
I'm sorry, but... "4 am to 10 pm most weekdays" and all weekends?
OK, I'll suspend my incredible disbelief for just a minute...
In what twilight zone do you guys live where teachers are allegedly plowing through 18-hour workdays and wall-to-wall weekends? I've known many teachers - good teachers - across many different districts and cities that don't work anywhere near the hours you guys allegedly claim to witness. Most of them are on facebook by 5 pm telling everyone what reality shows they're going to catch that evening.
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - flyingswoosh - 02-21-2011 04:09 AM
yeah, i really can't say that i ever heard of a teacher coming in at 4am. I've also never seen any of them leave as late as 10pm. Anytime i've ever been in the school after hours, it was deserted
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - SuperFlyBCat - 02-21-2011 06:55 AM
Last time I checked school districts decided, via collective bargaining union agreements, what to pay teachers as a salary.
My Mom retired as a school teacher 4 years ago she was making $75,000 and has a real nice pension, Village of Indian Hill.
The city of cincy has school janitors making over $100,000 and some can pull in over $140,000. That right "Janitor".
RE: Ohio Senate Bill 5 - starting salaries for teachers - DrTorch - 02-21-2011 09:13 AM
(02-20-2011 11:44 PM)CountryRedHawk Wrote: The salary itself! Then they cut her retirement, and her retirement benefits. Now, they told her they are looking at cutting them AGAIN, and making her pay fully for medical insurance! I mean, the woman spent the best years of her life teaching and help other people's children, making less than she should have.
Howw do you define "should" have? She was free to seek a job w/ a better salary, wasn't she?
I do agree that cutting her retirement and promised benefits is unethical. Although I'd like to hold accountable the legislators who made those promises.