(07-03-2010 01:09 PM)InjunJohn Wrote:  I ask each of you to forgive the vanity.

I was talking to a friend about soccer (he is a huge fan) and about why it is not as big here in the US. The obvious answer is due to the large number of sports we play and cheer for and the opportunities that are provided to both us as fans and the athletes currently playing, regardless of the level. As we are now in the 4th of July weekend, it got me to thinking of the bigger picture.

Two hundred and thirty four years ago a group of men....patriots/rebels....put in motion the creation of, IMHO, the greatest country the world has ever known. That action resulted in allowing each of us to live up to our maximum potential, if we so choose. Having retired from the Army, I have spent a few Independence days in foreign countries, I have stood in formations and marched in parades, and quite a few I have just sat around, grilled some sort of delicious meat, drank beer, and waited for the fireworks. I will most likely do the same this year. But this year I want to count the blessings that have been bestowed upon me....upon each of us....that has given us the opportunity to live, love, and play in the spectacular nation. I am always reminded of a bumper sticker..."American by birth, Southern by the grace of God"....well, for this weekend, for me it will just be "American by the grace of God!!"

While we may argue over who has the best school, who has the best team, and who is going to whoop who's *** come football season, I sincerely wish each of you a happy Independence Day.

InjunJohn

(07-03-2010 05:18 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Good post and thank you for your service.

As for the soccer thing... I have yet to hear a satisfactory reason for why America has never embraced it. Maybe we just have an independant streak.

Can't say that I particularly care for soccer, but the world seems to love it.

(07-03-2010 05:29 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  I think its mainly cause it is boring as all get out.

(07-03-2010 08:57 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(07-03-2010 05:29 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  I think its mainly cause it is boring as all get out.

That doesn't stop Americans from watching hockey. And golf.

(07-03-2010 07:34 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  great post injun john.....

i spent 4 years in the corps and saw the caribbean, southern europe, southern and northern africa. since then i've been on over 20 medical mission trips to central america.....

i've seen a lot of poverty in all of those places.

this is the greatest country in the world. people are beating our borders down to get in.

we are definitely not without sin.....i laugh at folks that think america can do no wrong. that said...it's still been the best system ever invented for the 'most' people. our middle class has been an aberration to most of the rest of the world where there are plenty of the 'elite' and wayyyyyy more of the 'poor as hell' but very little true middle class.

the reason soccer has been wildly successful everywhere else??? all you need is a damn ball....no real other equipment necessary....i still consider it a neanderthal sport compared to something like baseball where massive skill is involved. yes...there is skill involved in kicking a ball like pele but not like hitting a 98 mph fastball when you're sitting on a curve that drops a foot or vice versa.

i've seen kids in egypt playing soccer in a rock field with rolled up rags that have been taped into a ball.

back to injun john's post....i have often wondered if i would have made it out of a barrio in tegucigalpa or a slum in mombassa. i was lucky enough to be born in the united states and even luckier to be born a white male. i'm not even trying to open that can of worms but i feel it's true. (not white guilt...just cognizant)

my youngest son is having his 'small group' (sun. evening church class) out to our house tomorrow to enjoy some pizza and our pool.

i count my blessings every single day and thanks to injun john for giving me an opportunity here....even tho' i rambled.

(07-04-2010 10:48 AM)PantherNation Wrote:  In my opinion, soccer is not big here because we aren't blasted with it on TV. It's all commercialism. That's what fuels America. We only see soccer in the US when it's the World Cup. And I feels they are showing more now that ever before.

Soccer cannot be broadcasted like football or baseball. There are no commercial pauses and it kills the TV networks. I remember reading somewhere that football has only about 12 minutes of "action" and the rest are commercials, pauses, and more commercials. Why do they have to pause for commercial, come back for the kickoff, then go to commercials again before continuing play? That kills me!!!

Soccer is 45 minutes nonstop - 15 minute break - then another 45 minutes. That's it. No time for commercials. Even on ESPN/ABC they try to put so many commercials in the actual broadcast. Same on the Spanish channels ("this segment of the game is brought to you by McDonalds").

Therefore, since TV stations and companies cannot make as much money, they don't broadcast it. So, people are not exposed to it. I don't think it has to do with it being a "neanderthal" sport. Its all commercialism. I don't think its cause its boring - again, look at golf. Its all commercialism. Plain and simple. By the way, have you seen the video to the reactions to the Landon Donovan goal in the World Cup? You're going to tell me everyone is bored and doesn't care about the game? I think that did wonders for soccer in the United States.

By the way, I too feel proud to be an American and feel lucky to be born here. I am not a "white" male. I was born in Amarillo, Texas - my dad is from Guatemala and my mother from Thailand (yeah, I know, a weird mix), and raised in the US.

My 2 cents.

(07-04-2010 01:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I read that Donovan will likely get $4 million to go back to England. That's good money but Kobe makes what six or seven times that? Now that's only an estimate of his base contract, he gets paid to play for USMNT in addition to the club money and gets more based on how the team does in the Carling Cup, FA Cup, if the club qualifies for one of the two UEFA tournaments so it can add up in a hurry.

(07-04-2010 05:21 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  I have still yet to hear a satisfactory reason for why soccer is so popular in other countries but not here.

Here are the usual answers you hear:

"Its boring". I agree. I also think its boring. But a couple billion other people on this planet find it exciting. Americans' DNA is not different from thiers, so... there is no reason why Americans can't find it just as exciting as the rest of the world does.

Quote:"We can't compete." False. Americans generally have more disposable income on average than pretty much any country on the planet. More disposable income generally translates to more leisure time which means being more competitive in sports. We will be competitive in any sport we are passionate about. We dominate in basketball. If there were international competition in baseball and American football we would dominate in those too. There is absolutely no reason we wouldn't excel in soccer if we chose to. But for the most part we don't care. Did you know that Jeremy Evans was offered huge money to play professional soccer in Australia? But he chose to play basketball. The idea that Americans couldn't compete if we chose to is absurd.

Quote:"Commercialism / not enough breaks for commercials." Wrong. How many times have the rules of basketball or football been tweaked to allow for TV ads? Plenty. Rules can be changed, exceptions can be made. The truth is that nobody (or not enough) would advertise during american soccer games because the interest is not there. Why is the interest not there?

Quote:"Americans are to stupid / ignorant to get it". Uh huh. Have you seen the rules to American football? Soccer isn't that complicated. But most americans are not willing to learn. Why?

Quote:"Americans want a faster paced game." As I said above... Americans watch golf, hockey, Nascar, any number of boring, slow, repetitive games. What's the difference?

Quote:"Soccer is a series of failures instead of a series of successes." That is an interesting argument. And it may speak to why so many Americans find soccer boring. But you're telling me that everyone feels that way? There is no niche market within the United States as there is for Golf, NHL, etc? And what about all the tens of millions of mexican immigrants? You would think that they would flock to soccer here just like they did back home. I'm still not finding this a completely satisfying answer.

(07-04-2010 05:21 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  I have still yet to hear a satisfactory reason for why soccer is so popular in other countries but not here.

Here are the usual answers you hear:

"We can't compete." False. Americans generally have more disposable income on average than pretty much any country on the planet. More disposable income generally translates to more leisure time which means being more competitive in sports. We will be competitive in any sport we are passionate about. We dominate in basketball. If there were international competition in baseball and American football we would dominate in those too. There is absolutely no reason we wouldn't excel in soccer if we chose to. But for the most part we don't care. Did you know that Jeremy Evans was offered huge money to play professional soccer in Australia? But he chose to play basketball. The idea that Americans couldn't compete if we chose to is absurd.

(07-05-2010 03:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Did you read my feelings on this? It's not that we can't compete, it's that our best athletes choose other sports. Jeremy Evans isn't anywhere near the best example of this, like I said in my post, Kobe Bryant learned to play soccer in Italy and had he been in Italy a few years longer, he might be a world class soccer player right now, rather than a hall of fame basketball player.

Like I said, it's not that we can't, or even that we don't care, but that our best athletes choose to play other sports and as I pointed out previously, soccer is the game of the masses in other countries because it's cheap to play and you can play anywhere, in America, soccer is a game of privileged suburban white kids. If Rucker park(and other inner city parks like it around the country) was a soccer pitch rather than a basketball court, we'd be a world class soccer nation.

(07-05-2010 08:44 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(07-05-2010 03:02 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Did you read my feelings on this? It's not that we can't compete, it's that our best athletes choose other sports. Jeremy Evans isn't anywhere near the best example of this, like I said in my post, Kobe Bryant learned to play soccer in Italy and had he been in Italy a few years longer, he might be a world class soccer player right now, rather than a hall of fame basketball player.

Like I said, it's not that we can't, or even that we don't care, but that our best athletes choose to play other sports and as I pointed out previously, soccer is the game of the masses in other countries because it's cheap to play and you can play anywhere, in America, soccer is a game of privileged suburban white kids. If Rucker park(and other inner city parks like it around the country) was a soccer pitch rather than a basketball court, we'd be a world class soccer nation.

I did, and I agreed with you. I have heard / read the argument that the reason that America does not get into soccer is that we can't compete. I am saying that is not true and I agree with your reasoning. We are both saying that America not being dominant is a symptom of America's disinterest in soccer, not the cause of America's disinterest in soccer.