Y'all, let’s cut straight to it. We've seen the big dogs like SEC and Big Ten pulling major moves to consolidate their power, and it's high time Sun Belt and Mountain West do the same. Here’s why: when you stack us up—quality of play, coaching, facilities—we're right there relatively speaking, especially the Sun Belt. We’re not just playing; we’re competing and even outplaying some Power Five teams.

What we need is a straight-up power move. We gotta start by cherry-picking the best teams from the American and Conference USA. (The mountain west would probably do the same adding Montana schools, and 2PAC) Think about it: a strategic alliance between the Sun Belt and Mountain West could seriously shake things up and put us in a prime spot for better TV deals given that ESPN and Fox would now have quality programs on TV that both take the sport and themselves seriously,make for a great television , and have insane rivalries. It’s just like their bigger inventory items but I guess more pure

to reiterate and clarify my point even more: if we pretty much pick apart the remaining competition and ignore the Mac on purpose, ESPN and Fox and other media companies, only have two group 5 programs and conferences. They have to worry about which is far less than what we have now

(04-24-2024 07:55 PM)Unknownghost Wrote:  Y'all, let’s cut straight to it. We've seen the big dogs like SEC and Big Ten pulling major moves to consolidate their power, and it's high time Sun Belt and Mountain West do the same. Here’s why: when you stack us up—quality of play, coaching, facilities—we're right there relatively speaking, especially the Sun Belt. We’re not just playing; we’re competing and even outplaying some Power Five teams.

What we need is a straight-up power move. We gotta start by cherry-picking the best teams from the American and Conference USA. (The mountain west would probably do the same adding Montana schools, and 2PAC) Think about it: a strategic alliance between the Sun Belt and Mountain West could seriously shake things up and put us in a prime spot for better TV deals given that ESPN and Fox would now have quality programs on TV that both take the sport and themselves seriously,make for a great television , and have insane rivalries. It’s just like their bigger inventory items but I guess more pure

to reiterate and clarify my point even more: if we pretty much pick apart the remaining competition and ignore the Mac on purpose, ESPN and Fox and other media companies, only have two group 5 programs and conferences. They have to worry about which is far less than what we have now

CUSA has a GOR and no one from there adds value that increases our worth, except Liberty. All we'd be doing is giving ESPN a discount with more teams for the same dollar. It wouldn't change any one team's chance at making the football playoffs or getting more NCAA bids. We wouldn't assume more autobids to the dance or be guaranteed at-large bids.

A few might increase worth from the American and maybe add a bid or two, but the deal we'd have to make to get them here I feel would not be worth it and the teams we would want are still trying to escape into the new P4 and would not stop. They aren't down and out enough to just come here. We've been in conference with them. They are arrogant and always looking to move up. They would rip our harmony apart. We would not be the same conference. And, without P4 money to hold it together, eventually teams would start talking about a better way and forming their own league.

Our best course is to keep doing what we're doing. Eventually, I think it will lead to two G conferences that matter but at our current size and geography. We're a conference built on rivalry and geography, We mix with market schools like oil and water. Trying would be a mistake.

Cherry pick the best of the AAC? Not happening. The legacy members are getting ~$7M a year in TV revenue. We get ~$2M. I love the Sun Belt but we don’t have the current exposure or resources to convince a Memphis or USF to come here when they are working hard to get to the ACC. Even the “2nd tier” AAC schools like ECU/UAB/UTSA are unlikely unless the AAC collapses.

I mean we could hurt CUSA really bad if we invited Liberty and Western Kentucky but those moves are unlikely because they probably would have happened already if they helped us in a big way financially.

What we need is to get our Champ to the CFP. NY6 bids were nice but having a team *currently* in your league with a playoff appearance will mean A LOT more long term than the NY6 bids mattered since most “P” leagues have scooped up most of the upper-tier G5 teams that still hadn’t quite made the jump.

(04-24-2024 09:25 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Cherry pick the best of the AAC? Not happening. The legacy members are getting ~$7M a year in TV revenue. We get ~$2M. I love the Sun Belt but we don’t have the current exposure or resources to convince a Memphis or USF to come here when they are working hard to get to the ACC. Even the “2nd tier” AAC schools like ECU/UAB/UTSA are unlikely unless the AAC collapses.

I mean we could hurt CUSA really bad if we invited Liberty and Western Kentucky but those moves are unlikely because they probably would have happened already if they helped us in a big way financially.

What we need is to get our Champ to the CFP. NY6 bids were nice but having a team *currently* in your league with a playoff appearance will mean A LOT more long term than the NY6 bids mattered since most “P” leagues have scooped up most of the upper-tier G5 teams that still hadn’t quite made the jump.

NAILED IT

What's great is that SBC perennially has / will have 3-4 schools that can get there....can't say that for our G5 brethren really

Boise and Fresno/SDSU are unlikely to leave. Take Nevada (or WYO), UNLV, UT St and CSU from MWC call it the Sun West Conference and call it a day.

The AAC thinks they're already doing this. I agree with Troy Fan. Not happening unless the AAC collapses. The addition of Army makes that less likely.

(04-24-2024 10:38 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  

(04-24-2024 09:25 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Cherry pick the best of the AAC? Not happening. The legacy members are getting ~$7M a year in TV revenue. We get ~$2M. I love the Sun Belt but we don’t have the current exposure or resources to convince a Memphis or USF to come here when they are working hard to get to the ACC. Even the “2nd tier” AAC schools like ECU/UAB/UTSA are unlikely unless the AAC collapses.

I mean we could hurt CUSA really bad if we invited Liberty and Western Kentucky but those moves are unlikely because they probably would have happened already if they helped us in a big way financially.

What we need is to get our Champ to the CFP. NY6 bids were nice but having a team *currently* in your league with a playoff appearance will mean A LOT more long term than the NY6 bids mattered since most “P” leagues have scooped up most of the upper-tier G5 teams that still hadn’t quite made the jump.

NAILED IT

What's great is that SBC perennially has / will have 3-4 schools that can get there....can't say that for our G5 brethren really

True. But that also makes it much less likely someone from the SB goes undefeated. Which seems important. Our league is the toughest (or at least equal to the MWC), but that might work against us for getting into the playoff. Will a 1 or 2 loss GSU get in over an undefeated Liberty? I think we got our answer this year. For the purpose of the playoff, you're better being the best team in a weak league. Thats what LU has done. I take the perspective of just strive to win the SB championship and let the chips fall where they may.

(04-24-2024 09:25 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Cherry pick the best of the AAC? Not happening. The legacy members are getting ~$7M a year in TV revenue. We get ~$2M. I love the Sun Belt but we don’t have the current exposure or resources to convince a Memphis or USF to come here when they are working hard to get to the ACC. Even the “2nd tier” AAC schools like ECU/UAB/UTSA are unlikely unless the AAC collapses.

I mean we could hurt CUSA really bad if we invited Liberty and Western Kentucky but those moves are unlikely because they probably would have happened already if they helped us in a big way financially.

What we need is to get our Champ to the CFP. NY6 bids were nice but having a team *currently* in your league with a playoff appearance will mean A LOT more long term than the NY6 bids mattered since most “P” leagues have scooped up most of the upper-tier G5 teams that still hadn’t quite made the jump.

ESPN has a history of renegotiating media rights, so it's feasible for a commissioner to propose consolidating top Group of Five or mid-major conferences west of the Mississippi. Schools like USF and Memphis may aim to join power conferences like the ACC, but they'd likely face financial sacrifices similar to those SMU endured, including lower media and playoff payouts compared to legacy Power 5 teams. While moving might offer some benefits, they wouldn't drastically improve their situation. Meanwhile, if the Sun Belt could promise stronger competition and a clear playoff path, top teams from the American and Conference USA would likely be interested. (Responding to the other guy) Western Kentucky and Liberty, Western Kentucky might add more value, but opinions may vary.

(04-24-2024 10:44 PM)Johnnychimpo Wrote:  Boise and Fresno/SDSU are unlikely to leave. Take Nevada (or WYO), UNLV, UT St and CSU from MWC call it the Sun West Conference and call it a day.

I wasn't advocating for us to take teams from the Mountain West, quite the opposite. I was advocating for the Sun Belt and Mountain West to consolidate the best teams from their area to make a better product. Unfortunately, in the Mountain Wests case, they really don't have any options on the FBS level (outside of if you think that they're going to take Oregon and Washington State, which I think they are, So those are the only two teams on the FBS level that would immediately add any value or credence to their conference.) On the FCS side, you would honestly add the Montana schools. And if you really want to stretch it out, like South Dakota and North Dakota State could be an option, but those teams would be super far out of the way, even if you were to add Montana and Montana State.

(04-25-2024 09:29 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-24-2024 10:38 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  

(04-24-2024 09:25 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Cherry pick the best of the AAC? Not happening. The legacy members are getting ~$7M a year in TV revenue. We get ~$2M. I love the Sun Belt but we don’t have the current exposure or resources to convince a Memphis or USF to come here when they are working hard to get to the ACC. Even the “2nd tier” AAC schools like ECU/UAB/UTSA are unlikely unless the AAC collapses.

I mean we could hurt CUSA really bad if we invited Liberty and Western Kentucky but those moves are unlikely because they probably would have happened already if they helped us in a big way financially.

What we need is to get our Champ to the CFP. NY6 bids were nice but having a team *currently* in your league with a playoff appearance will mean A LOT more long term than the NY6 bids mattered since most “P” leagues have scooped up most of the upper-tier G5 teams that still hadn’t quite made the jump.

NAILED IT

What's great is that SBC perennially has / will have 3-4 schools that can get there....can't say that for our G5 brethren really

True. But that also makes it much less likely someone from the SB goes undefeated. Which seems important. Our league is the toughest (or at least equal to the MWC), but that might work against us for getting into the playoff. Will a 1 or 2 loss GSU get in over an undefeated Liberty? I think we got our answer this year. For the purpose of the playoff, you're better being the best team in a weak league. Thats what LU has done. I take the perspective of just strive to win the SB championship and let the chips fall where they may.

Responding to this because I think this new format pretty much goes against this line of thinking. For starters, if we're taking into account what our head-to-head matchups proved, (unless I'm not talking about AppState because AppState's head coach must have a choking fetish or something, I don't understand losing all those close or important games, but whatever.) We pretty much have better matchups and arguably the top-to-bottom deepest league. I mean, Coastal Carolina played UCLA far closer than Boise State or Southern Cal did. That speaks to the quality of our league. I don't see if the 4th best team in a league is playing Power 5 teams closer than anyone else they're playing that's not in a power league. Furthermore, to be serious here, the only leagues that will be in consideration will pretty much only be the Sun Belt, Mountain West, and the American. Now, the fundamental aspect of the playoff does include the highest-ranked Group of 5 champion, which, how you get to that ranking is where the crux of the issue is. But after watching what Liberty did in the Fiesta Bowl, I highly doubt any serious playoff commissioner or whatever will consider putting anyone in from Conference USA or the MAC. And furthermore, strength of schedule even in Conference matters a lot. With SMU, UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati gone, most of the American is pretty dogshit in comparison. Yeah, you have Tulane and Memphis, but even if they go undefeated, their strength of schedule will be pretty weak in comparison. This is true to a lesser extent with the Mountain West. The lows are bad. We have one ULM, and they have New Mexico, Nevada, Hawaii, Colorado State. They just don't have enough good teams to overcome the fact that a quarter or more of their conference isn't really competitive. Even with their bowl-eligible teams, they're not even as good as Georgia State, which is saying something, which is pretty pathetic. So if you're really trying to say what conference would have a better argument for making it to the playoff, if the Sun Belt keeps steady, it's pretty much going to be the Sun Belt, and if they really want to throw in one or two teams from the American, and then let's say Boise State from the Mountain West, but that would require them to play pretty much perfectly and not lose many games in their conference schedule for them to be highly ranked.

(04-25-2024 09:34 AM)Unknownghost Wrote:  

(04-24-2024 09:25 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Cherry pick the best of the AAC? Not happening. The legacy members are getting ~$7M a year in TV revenue. We get ~$2M. I love the Sun Belt but we don’t have the current exposure or resources to convince a Memphis or USF to come here when they are working hard to get to the ACC. Even the “2nd tier” AAC schools like ECU/UAB/UTSA are unlikely unless the AAC collapses.

I mean we could hurt CUSA really bad if we invited Liberty and Western Kentucky but those moves are unlikely because they probably would have happened already if they helped us in a big way financially.

What we need is to get our Champ to the CFP. NY6 bids were nice but having a team *currently* in your league with a playoff appearance will mean A LOT more long term than the NY6 bids mattered since most “P” leagues have scooped up most of the upper-tier G5 teams that still hadn’t quite made the jump.

ESPN has a history of renegotiating media rights, so it's feasible for a commissioner to propose consolidating top Group of Five or mid-major conferences west of the Mississippi. Schools like USF and Memphis may aim to join power conferences like the ACC, but they'd likely face financial sacrifices similar to those SMU endured, including lower media and playoff payouts compared to legacy Power 5 teams. While moving might offer some benefits, they wouldn't drastically improve their situation. Meanwhile, if the Sun Belt could promise stronger competition and a clear playoff path, top teams from the American and Conference USA would likely be interested. (Responding to the other guy) Western Kentucky and Liberty, Western Kentucky might add more value, but opinions may vary.

It's possible ESPN has a clause where if XYZ happens then they can renegotiate if they want but with UConn/UCF/Cincy/Houston and now SMU gone and they still haven't then that means they probably aren't pressed to do so at the moment.

To your other point: Any school in the G5 would do whatever it took to get into either the ACC or XII. I mean Cal & Stanford are taking like 1/3 share each just to get into a conference that's literally on the other side of the nation. You don't think USF or Memphis would do the same? Making $8M a year and having an ACC schedule is better than making $7M a year and having an AAC schedule.

Again we could add 2-4 from CUSA and potentially build a 16-18 G5 Super League that cements us easily in the Top 3 and possibly Top 2 most years but there just isn't enough incentive when we are already rising as is with 14.

theres nothing here. Having a scheduling alliance with the MWC is interesting and it might help SOS but the real way to generate buzz is to beat P4s, even bad ones. Only Boise has any real brand power east of the mississippi.

we're not getting any aac members and especially legacy ones at this point. Even if the move makes sense like ECU, they have to pay $10MM exit fee+ take a hair cut on the media deal.

You let me know if you'd leave your job to move to a much more expensive city AND take a pay cut.

the best thing to the SBC to do is continue to do what its doing. Lean into the regional rivalries, get the 1st playoff bid and subsequent ones and continue working towards being a 2 bid basketball conference.

TV money rules college football.

College football (i.e. conferences) are going to do exactly what TV executives tell them to do. They are the ones who spearhead any/everything. It's why the SEC and B10 have made big moves: because there's lots of money to be made. The question you have to ask yourself is: how much more money is there to be made by consolidating/combining or having some form of agreement between the SBC and the MWC or whoever...

College football is entertainment. It's business. If you want an answer to any question in life (particular business), then follow the money.

I agree on finding a way to put a dagger in and squash the MAC and CUSA. The only 3 that deserve a life raft are WKU, Toledo, Ohio and maybe a 4th.

What on earth happened to these MAC programs anyway? The story line every year for them is how long will Toledo stay dominate, how long can Ohio stay quality, will NIU ever be good again and which of the 3 Michigan schools will be decent?

NIU had one of the best but maybe one of the shorter runs in G5 history. 5 consecutive 11+ win seasons with a BCS Orange Bowl birth. Then 9 consecutive seasons without 10 wins.

Western Michigan goes to Cotton bowl never to be heard from the following 7 seasons.

BGSU wins 8+ games 4 years in a row then goes 8 consecutive seasons without hitting 8.

Kent wins 11 games never to be heard from the following 11 seasons.

Toledo has been only (Ohio too) consistent team over last 2 decades and it’s been 15 years since last losing seaso.

I vote to just keep doing what we’re doing and watching the other conferences melt down since that seems to be working.

I love the SBC, but every single one of us should be striving for either being in position for the ACC if it falls apart like the PAC did, or if left behind from that combining with the best of the AAC. Whatever you want to call that conference.

If the AAC invited a group from the SBC, and that put us in the best position to get to a depleted ACC, it's worth it. Also if they took Marshall, App, JMU, ODU, Coastal, Southern Miss, Louisiana as a group, and combined them with Army, Navy, ECU, Memphis, Tulane, USF, UTSA, etc, and told us they'd give us 7M/year, we'd all take that.

(04-25-2024 08:28 PM)ThunderDent Wrote:  I love the SBC, but every single one of us should be striving for either being in position for the ACC if it falls apart like the PAC did, or if left behind from that combining with the best of the AAC. Whatever you want to call that conference.

If the AAC invited a group from the SBC, and that put us in the best position to get to a depleted ACC, it's worth it. Also if they took Marshall, App, JMU, ODU, Coastal, Southern Miss, Louisiana as a group, and combined them with Army, Navy, ECU, Memphis, Tulane, USF, UTSA, etc, and told us they'd give us 7M/year, we'd all take that.

What part of “they don’t want be with us?” have you not grasped through the formation of a new conference and multiple other additions over a decade?

An AAC that’s arrived to the point of calling up Marshall, USM, App, or UL with its hat in its hand won’t be worth joining. They can come over here when it falls apart and we’ll take the details up with ESPN.

Aside from a couple programs, everybody’s hanging with their own crowd right now in the Eastern G5s, and I for one rather like it that way.

(04-25-2024 02:57 PM)Johnnychimpo Wrote:  Kent wins 11 games never to be heard from the following 11 seasons.

That's funny...I happened to think about this out of the blue yesterday...no one really thinks/talks about the fact that they were pretty close to being in a BCS bowl that year. For fans, there had to be a feeling that something big was in the works.

Let's see where things stand once the ACC's future becomes clear. An opportunity could exist if they end up losing a lot of members and make poor decisions on who they backfill with.