Do not see anything about $$ figures on the Sun Belt media contract and how it compares to the expiring 12 year contract or what the future contract maybe.

Quote:NEW ORLEANS — Sun Belt Commissioner Keith Gill announced during his annual State of the Conference on Thursday that the conference has extended its media rights deal with ESPN. The deal now runs through the 2030-31 academic year. The new agreement will result in a more than 50 percent increase in the number of Sun Belt football games that appear on ESPN's linear offerings (ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU), with 40 percent of those new opportunities being broadcast on a Saturday.

https://sunbeltsports.org/news/2021/7/22...rship.aspx

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I do wonder why that would be. They've had solid football and basketball.

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I certainly do agree with that ... which is why I said at the outset the most plausible "realignment spillover upside" is if an AAC raided heavily enough to want to take WKU would nonetheless still be the preferred landing spot.

I don't think a spot opening up for WKU in the SBC is very likely ... it's more in the realm of "sometimes crazy things have happened" (eg, next year Cal, Stanford and SMU are going to constitute the westernmost members of the "Atlantic Coast Conference").

(04-17-2024 01:15 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I do wonder why that would be. They've had solid football and basketball.

But the market is small.

I confess to being a bit unclear on which schools could actually "move the needle" for the Sun Belt, though. I suppose possibilities include:
-- Florida International -- The program is a bit of a mess, but it's certainly in a huge market.
-- Middle Tennessee -- Nashville is an hour away and Murfreesboro is said to be growing.
-- Liberty -- They certainly are throwing money around and winning some games at the moment.

I'm just guessing here. Perhaps others have a better sense of this than I do.

The MAC should just move on from WKU. They do not bring a large market and their academics are awful. They would easily be the worst academic institution in the conference if they were to join. They also are not anything special in football or basketball outside of being competitive in C-USA.... The worst G5 conference. Additionally, they're a southern school with southern culture. Not a good fit in a conference made up of northern and east coast schools. The MAC would be better suited to look elsewhere.

(04-17-2024 05:33 PM)astr083 Wrote:  The MAC should just move on from WKU. They do not bring a large market and their academics are awful. They would easily be the worst academic institution in the conference if they were to join. They also are not anything special in football or basketball outside of being competitive in C-USA.... The worst G5 conference. Additionally, they're a southern school with southern culture. Not a good fit in a conference made up of northern and east coast schools. The MAC would be better suited to look elsewhere.

Hilltoppers have been to the Sweet Sixteen about 8 times and once to the Final Four. Personally witnessed WKU destroy a 10-4 Appalachian St team in the 2021 Boca Raton Bowl.

(04-17-2024 05:33 PM)astr083 Wrote:  The MAC should just move on from WKU. They do not bring a large market and their academics are awful. They would easily be the worst academic institution in the conference if they were to join. They also are not anything special in football or basketball outside of being competitive in C-USA.... The worst G5 conference. Additionally, they're a southern school with southern culture. Not a good fit in a conference made up of northern and east coast schools. The MAC would be better suited to look elsewhere.

Was it you, or someone else, who said exactly the same thing on this board recently? At any rate, let me repeat that any conference that has Akron surely has room for WKU. One ranking I saw actually had UA and WKU tied for #361.

(04-17-2024 01:57 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 01:15 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  ... I do wonder why that would be. They've had solid football and basketball.

But the market is small. ...

The Sunbelt in their last expansion did not place a priority on market. They seemed to have prioritized the complementarity of the adds with the schools already in place. That's more an AAC priority ... and from the relative trajectory of the two conferences, one could argue that the SBC has no reason to shift strategies, since their strategy seems to be bearing fruit.

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I had no idea there was a 5 page discussion of WKU on the SBC board. WKU was a member of the SBC for decades and personally, I don't have any interest in going back.

I think that CUSA has done a pretty good job of re-building but I think that Delaware and Liberty will be poached on the next round due to the size of their budgets, so I'm good if WKU ends up going to the MAC. The MAC it is more stable and has better travel and the prospect of being in a conference that continually has to backfill with FCS programs isn't very appealing. Of course, there has to be an invite and money/timing of a CUSA exit has to work.

(04-18-2024 06:16 PM)topper1296 Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I had no idea there was a 5 page discussion of WKU on the SBC board. WKU was a member of the SBC for decades and personally, I don't have any interest in going back.

I think that CUSA has done a pretty good job of re-building but I think that Delaware and Liberty will be poached on the next round due to the size of their budgets, so I'm good if WKU ends up going to the MAC. The MAC it is more stable and has better travel and the prospect of being in a conference that continually has to backfill with FCS programs isn't very appealing. Of course, there has to be an invite and money/timing of a CUSA exit has to work.

The MAC is very thorough and you can be sure has done its due diligence on WKU as a prospective member. As Dr. Steinbrecher said in his opening remarks during the UMass presser: "We don't open our door to just anyone."

https://twitter.com/MACSports/status/176...=MACSports

As a prospective member institution, there's much to like about WKU, including its strong leadership with President Tim Caboni and Athletics Director Todd Stewart.

(04-18-2024 06:16 PM)topper1296 Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I had no idea there was a 5 page discussion of WKU on the SBC board. WKU was a member of the SBC for decades and personally, I don't have any interest in going back.

I think that CUSA has done a pretty good job of re-building but I think that Delaware and Liberty will be poached on the next round due to the size of their budgets, so I'm good if WKU ends up going to the MAC. The MAC it is more stable and has better travel and the prospect of being in a conference that continually has to backfill with FCS programs isn't very appealing. Of course, there has to be an invite and money/timing of a CUSA exit has to work.

This is good to hear.

I should probably walk back the point I've made before about how likely it would be for Western Kentucky to merit serious consideration by the Sun Belt if it had an opening. The coolness expressed about Western Kentucky by Sun Belt fans may have been more about going beyond 14 teams than a dislike for what the Hilltoppers could bring to the Sun Belt.

If the Sun Belt lost a school to the American Athletic and needed to backfill, Western Kentucky could well merit serious consideration. That's the vibe I get from this thread I launched on the realignment board.

It makes sense, too. As BruceMcF correctly notes, the Sun Belt has placed less weight on adding schools in big markets than has the American Athletic.

(04-18-2024 06:49 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-18-2024 06:16 PM)topper1296 Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 11:36 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 09:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  At present, there is no substantial reason [for the Sun Belt] to expand, and I don't think that the SBC is heavily exposed to realignment risk at present. However, if there is a sufficiently large P2/M2 realignment to spill over into the Go5 conferences, it is at least plausible that they end up with a hole in their line-up for which WKU is the least-bad available option, which further supports a "wait and see" strategy.

I'm skeptical Western Kentucky would be near the top of a Sun Belt list, though. Sun Belt fans had a thread going (here) on whether they should invite Western Kentucky, and MUHerd76, who seems to have good sources, had this to say:

(02-28-2024 09:10 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  There are currently only 3-4 teams that move the needle of interest for the Sun Belt. WKU is not one of them. Trust me on that one.

If this is true, Western Kentucky wouldn't seem to have much to gain by staying in Conference USA and waiting for it to be watered down in future raids by the Sun Belt or American Athletic.

I had no idea there was a 5 page discussion of WKU on the SBC board. WKU was a member of the SBC for decades and personally, I don't have any interest in going back.

I think that CUSA has done a pretty good job of re-building but I think that Delaware and Liberty will be poached on the next round due to the size of their budgets, so I'm good if WKU ends up going to the MAC. The MAC it is more stable and has better travel and the prospect of being in a conference that continually has to backfill with FCS programs isn't very appealing. Of course, there has to be an invite and money/timing of a CUSA exit has to work.

This is good to hear.

I should probably walk back the point I've made before about how likely it would be for Western Kentucky to merit serious consideration by the Sun Belt if it had an opening. The coolness expressed about Western Kentucky by Sun Belt fans may have been more about going beyond 14 teams than a dislike for what the Hilltoppers could bring to the Sun Belt.

If the Sun Belt lost a school to the American Athletic and needed to backfill, Western Kentucky could well merit serious consideration. That's the vibe I get from this thread I launched on the realignment board.

It makes sense, too. As BruceMcF correctly notes, the Sun Belt has placed less weight on adding schools in big markets than has the American Athletic.

Good Post. I was going to point that out but did not want to stir up anymore "what ifs".

The SBC (or any G5) would be wise NOT to go above fourteen IMO.

The focus of that SBC thread was adding Now to go to 15 or 16.

IF they Lost a member--I'm confident WKU would be at or near the top of their list.

They would not take Liberty (private school and politics), MTSU (fear of losing them to the AAC-"market" Nashville #26), or La Tech (two schools already in LA who truly despise them and Tech has "vowed" to Never be in a league with ULM). Others would not even be considered.

ALSO--I have to disagree with my fellow WKU fan above... Who is going to poach Liberty in the near future? NO P4, not the MAC or the SBC and it will take several years before the AAC might consider them due to politics and religion. Delaware will not even be FBS for two years; the SBC is unlikely--as is the MAC. And again--a long time before they prove themselves at the FBS level before the AAC gives them a look IMHO.

What are WKU administration values for its athletic department and how does it see things. This is very different from UMass, as WKU has already moved conferences and tried again in 2021. UMass goals were on fit; academic, athletic budgets and resources, geography and to grow and have sustained success for UMass Athletics, which a stable conference can provide. UMass Athletics as the front porch and involvement with the community. Those are all factors in choosing the MAC over CUSA.

What does WKU value; more revenue, more status, limit travel and student athlete experience, peers, academics, cultural fit, etc. Seems most of the focus of what if's is status and money. Idk what WKU will do in 11 days or in a year or in 3 years without knowing what it values.

The only indications on what the WKU administration values are feelings, but nothing of what it values.

We are in the same window as this was published Feb 22, 2024 Hockey Podcast with our Chancellor. MAC vote Feb 26, 2024 on the podcast the Chancellor starts around the 4-minute mark and it was about sustainable success, bring the community together and fit. He gets going around 15:30 mark in a general way and then gets specifically about fit, 20:30 mark.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3tzV6GO7el7UhWLCWvULzy

Talking to some MAC posters is a little like trying to explain the term "French Fries" to people in France.

That's not a put down. Sometimes other points of view are just difficult for all sides to fully "get".

They are not aware of the background, history, and situations in which each exist.

[notice I said "some" MAC posters]

(04-19-2024 12:26 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Talking to some MAC posters is a little like trying to explain the term "French Fries" to people in France.

That's not a put down. Sometimes other points of view are just difficult for all sides to fully "get".

They are not aware of the background, history, and situations in which each exist.

[notice I said "some" MAC posters]

Perhaps we can gleam into the values of WKU on their press conference when they changed from the Sun Belt to CUSA. Could simply be like most of conference realignment as status and money. Kind of assumed this when saying UMass and WKU are different as we waited 48 years and after a private negotiation period, have been very public and open on our values and the alignment for MACtion.

(04-19-2024 01:36 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:26 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Talking to some MAC posters is a little like trying to explain the term "French Fries" to people in France.

That's not a put down. Sometimes other points of view are just difficult for all sides to fully "get".

They are not aware of the background, history, and situations in which each exist.

[notice I said "some" MAC posters]

Perhaps we can gleam into the values of WKU on their press conference when they changed from the Sun Belt to CUSA. Could simply be like most of conference realignment as status and money. Kind of assumed this when saying UMass and WKU are different as we waited 48 years and after a private negotiation period, have been very public and open on our values and the alignment for MACtion.

WKU has been pretty openly ambitious when it comes to realignment, but reality kicked us in the gut pretty hard in 2021. We were shown how little value is placed on winning in the grand scheme of things. CUSA lost 9/14 members and WKU wasn't one of them. More realignment is on the horizon, maybe favorable winds blow our way this time, maybe not. Feels like more dominoes have to fall first.

(04-22-2024 10:31 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:36 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:26 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Talking to some MAC posters is a little like trying to explain the term "French Fries" to people in France.

That's not a put down. Sometimes other points of view are just difficult for all sides to fully "get".

They are not aware of the background, history, and situations in which each exist.

[notice I said "some" MAC posters]

Perhaps we can gleam into the values of WKU on their press conference when they changed from the Sun Belt to CUSA. Could simply be like most of conference realignment as status and money. Kind of assumed this when saying UMass and WKU are different as we waited 48 years and after a private negotiation period, have been very public and open on our values and the alignment for MACtion.

WKU has been pretty openly ambitious when it comes to realignment, but reality kicked us in the gut pretty hard in 2021. We were shown how little value is placed on winning in the grand scheme of things. CUSA lost 9/14 members and WKU wasn't one of them. More realignment is on the horizon, maybe favorable winds blow our way this time, maybe not. Feels like more dominoes have to fall first.

Thanks for posting freshtop. Ambition takes many forms. For us, we want to be the standard of excellence in the MAC. Nothing wrong with wanting to excel. To me, that is what competing is all about. That said, being ambitious does not answer the question what WKU values.

(04-22-2024 03:07 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(04-22-2024 10:31 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:36 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:26 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Talking to some MAC posters is a little like trying to explain the term "French Fries" to people in France.

That's not a put down. Sometimes other points of view are just difficult for all sides to fully "get".

They are not aware of the background, history, and situations in which each exist.

[notice I said "some" MAC posters]

Perhaps we can gleam into the values of WKU on their press conference when they changed from the Sun Belt to CUSA. Could simply be like most of conference realignment as status and money. Kind of assumed this when saying UMass and WKU are different as we waited 48 years and after a private negotiation period, have been very public and open on our values and the alignment for MACtion.

WKU has been pretty openly ambitious when it comes to realignment, but reality kicked us in the gut pretty hard in 2021. We were shown how little value is placed on winning in the grand scheme of things. CUSA lost 9/14 members and WKU wasn't one of them. More realignment is on the horizon, maybe favorable winds blow our way this time, maybe not. Feels like more dominoes have to fall first.

Thanks for posting freshtop. Ambition takes many forms. For us, we want to be the standard of excellence in the MAC. Nothing wrong with wanting to excel. To me, that is what competing is all about. That said, being ambitious does not answer the question what WKU values.

We want to compete for conference championships. We want to play and win in both bowl games (the bigger the better) and the NCAA tournament. We want to be in a conference with members that value all-sports, but specifically basketball and football. We want as much media money and other conference distribution payouts as possible to fund those athletic efforts. We want to play against programs we see as peers. Lastly, and the likely sticking point to a MAC move, we are tied more to the South than North culturally.

If you asked me to build the perfect league for WKU (outside of joining a power league which is never happening) then it would consist of a sprinkling of current MAC, SBC, AAC, MVC, and A10 programs. Many of which we have been affiliated with before. Without some serious shockwaves hitting college athletics, making pie in the sky leagues won't happen. Alternatively it appears we will wait. Right now CUSA money is pretty damn good (better than what we would get in any other G5 league). That money will come back down to earth soon, hopefully just in time for another wave of realignment to clear the murky waters we are trying to look through.

Thanks for the post freshtop. Seems like a nice combination of values and ambitions. UMass thinks itself as east coast rather than mid-west, but understand to some extent your situation and good luck. Hope your assistant coach can perform. We took a serious leap backwards when we lost our women's coach and promoted the assistant coach.