(03-06-2024 10:20 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm no fan of DEI but some things are probably better left unsaid IMO.

What things?

Sitting through an online course for an hour was the greatest struggle of my life.

Which was left unsaid.

(03-06-2024 10:34 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:20 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:10 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  "Hyperbole is a literary device in which exaggeration is used to create emphasis, humor, or prosodic effect123. It is often a boldly overstated or exaggerated claim or statement that adds emphasis without the intention of being literally true1. Unlike sarcasm or dishonesty, hyperbole isn’t meant to be taken literally2. The word hyperbole comes from the Greek word huperbolē, which means “growth”2."

Thanks. I understand hyperbole while at the same time understanding that some statements make one look like a whiny little b****.

I'm no fan of DEI but some things are probably better left unsaid IMO.

What things?

Sitting through an online course for an hour was the greatest struggle of my life.

I had a response, based on this being a serious statement of fact, then decided this is hyperbole.

But, IAC, this has nothing to do with The North Face's DEI. I think it will backfire on them, much like Bud Light's usage of Dylan Mulrooney. Know your target demographic.

Agree.

(03-06-2024 10:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:20 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm no fan of DEI but some things are probably better left unsaid IMO.

What things?

Sitting through an online course for an hour was the greatest struggle of my life.

Which was left unsaid.

The connection between "progressive" views and truth has always been tenuous. :)

In that vein, one term so-called "progressives" like to use is to claim that a phrase or comment is "problematic", or that the commenter "had no business" uttering it (the latter being somewhat similar to what 93 is doing here). That is their code for saying that, while there isn't anything actually wrong with the phrase or comment, there is personal status to be gained by posturing to one's in group as if there were something wrong with it. And of course the tactic achieves its goal, as other "progressives" cluck approvingly at the characterization. Such is what passes for cleverness or even insight in "progressive" circles.

(03-07-2024 10:47 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:20 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm no fan of DEI but some things are probably better left unsaid IMO.

What things?

Sitting through an online course for an hour was the greatest struggle of my life.

Which was left unsaid.

The connection between "progressive" views and truth has always been tenuous. :)

In that vein, one term so-called "progressives" like to use is to claim that a phrase or comment is "problematic", or that the commenter "had no business" uttering it (the latter being somewhat similar to what 93 is doing here). That is their code for saying that, while there isn't anything actually wrong with the phrase or comment, there is personal status to be gained by posturing to one's in group as if there were something wrong with it. And of course the tactic achieves its goal, as other "progressives" cluck approvingly at the characterization. Such is what passes for cleverness or even insight in "progressive" circles.

Writing what he wrote (hyperbole or not) was, to me, pretty cringe.

Nothing to do with progressives or right-wingers, of course.

Here is the problem with DEI.

I was helping someone with a job application recently and it asked, but did not require them to self-identify in any way they sought fit including any characteristic or quality that they thought would be helpful, including not only numerous obvious check boxes for the ones commonly put forth and the ability to not only select 'other', but also to write in (250 words or less) your own unique identity.

So far, no problem. But the obvious question is 'for what purpose'?

They then go on to say that nothing in that box will be used in the hiring process, but that it is simply an effort to ensure diversity.

Now... someone tell me what you might to to ensure diversity if you are ignoring such characteristics in the selection process and merely selecting the most qualified candidates for any position and you end up with say 65% 'white' and 70% female (my experience in hiring nurses comes to mind)?

Besides... self-identifying in the pre-hire process only works if you require it... otherwise the majority of people who are going to self-identify are going to be the ones who think that it will help them.... which will result in a skewed response rate... not to mention that 'self-identifying' is not a consistent legally defined term... so you may STILL not meet any actual 'diversity' goals.

An example. 2 years ago I submitted an application for inclusion on the DEI board of my company. I did not self-identify. Not surprising, but certainly lacking in diversity... the board selected had everything but a cis-white male on it. Last year, I specifically mentioned (though I was more PC) that as a cis, white male... I represented the thoughts and opinions of the biggest potential obstacle to increased diversity... and thus would be invaluable in formulating a strategy and 'pitch' that would be most likely to succeed with less resistance or push-back. Guess what happened??

I had a very non-diverse group of employees at my former business - 100% hispanic, 100% cis-gendered. How evil of me.

(03-08-2024 10:31 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I had a very non-diverse group of employees at my former business - 100% hispanic, 100% cis-gendered. How evil of me.

I'm not sure how valuable 'diversity of experience' might be to say a company that digs ditches or makes a product that is targeted to a specific group of people... as in I don't know how a cis white male would be beneficial to a company that makes products targeting gay Asian females... As people, sure... I am a big believer in trying to experience other cultures and perspectives.... but not jobs... and the more vital the job, the less I care about diversity.

As an example... I don't care if my 'special forces' are culturally representative of our nation. I want them to be the biggest, baddest, meanest, most deadly MFs in the world. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm asking these people to engage in a 'culture' of war and death that most of us bend over backwards to hide from. Black white gay straight trans male female non-binary I identify as a squirrel... I don't care. I DO have a problem if the standards for say a woman firefighter are that they be able to carry a 130lb person down their ladder, while men must be able to carry a 200lb person down the ladder... because the woman won't be able to save me. She can have a different job in the fire department... one that will never be required to carry a person down a ladder... but she can't have THAT job.

That's not sexist... because if a (woman gay straight trans non-binary I think I'm a dragon) can carry me then I'm good. Its just that jobs that require (or benefit from) strength or speed or agility or even just skills should not compromise from those qualities in search of 'diversity'.... unless 'diversity' is more important than those skills/capabilities.

(03-08-2024 11:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-08-2024 10:31 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I had a very non-diverse group of employees at my former business - 100% hispanic, 100% cis-gendered. How evil of me.

I'm not sure how valuable 'diversity of experience' might be to say a company that digs ditches or makes a product that is targeted to a specific group of people... as in I don't know how a cis white male would be beneficial to a company that makes products targeting gay Asian females... As people, sure... I am a big believer in trying to experience other cultures and perspectives.... but not jobs... and the more vital the job, the less I care about diversity.

As an example... I don't care if my 'special forces' are culturally representative of our nation. I want them to be the biggest, baddest, meanest, most deadly MFs in the world. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm asking these people to engage in a 'culture' of war and death that most of us bend over backwards to hide from. Black white gay straight trans male female non-binary I identify as a squirrel... I don't care. I DO have a problem if the standards for say a woman firefighter are that they be able to carry a 130lb person down their ladder, while men must be able to carry a 200lb person down the ladder... because the woman won't be able to save me. She can have a different job in the fire department... one that will never be required to carry a person down a ladder... but she can't have THAT job.

That's not sexist... because if a (woman gay straight trans non-binary I think I'm a dragon) can carry me then I'm good. Its just that jobs that require (or benefit from) strength or speed or agility or even just skills should not compromise from those qualities in search of 'diversity'.... unless 'diversity' is more important than those skills/capabilities.

What you describe is EXACTLY the case at many FDs. My son looked into the Dallas department at one time. I wonder how many Blue Teamers would choose the firefighter who passed the easier physical test to rescue them if they were unconscious on the third floor of a burning building.

I asked a policeman friend one time about this. His response was that most of the time people respect the uniform. I asked "and the rest of the time?" He said "I prefer big guys to help me if there is resistance". My friend was 6'3", 265.

(03-08-2024 12:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Writing what he wrote (hyperbole or not) was, to me, pretty cringe.

Why so? People things like that all the time time about training videos, mandatory work meetings, and so on -- "that was the longest hour of my life", "that's an hour I'll never get back", etc -- even when the general topic is questionably worthy on its face.

That genuinely causes you to "cringe"?

(03-08-2024 02:26 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-08-2024 12:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Writing what he wrote (hyperbole or not) was, to me, pretty cringe.

Why so? People things like that all the time time about training videos, mandatory work meetings, and so on -- "that was the longest hour of my life", "that's an hour I'll never get back", etc -- even when the general topic is questionably worthy on its face.

That genuinely causes you to "cringe"?

I guess that I would say that a comment like that made around the watercooler hits differently than a comment that was given to be included in a nationally distributed article but this throwaway comment of mine has already generated more discussion than it deserved.

(03-08-2024 04:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-08-2024 02:26 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-08-2024 12:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Writing what he wrote (hyperbole or not) was, to me, pretty cringe.

Why so? People things like that all the time time about training videos, mandatory work meetings, and so on -- "that was the longest hour of my life", "that's an hour I'll never get back", etc -- even when the general topic is questionably worthy on its face.

That genuinely causes you to "cringe"?

I guess that I would say that a comment like that made around the watercooler hits differently than a comment that was given to be included in a nationally distributed article but this throwaway comment of mine has already generated more discussion than it deserved.

Fair enough. :)

Also notable is that the "longest hour of my life" was made BEFORE last night's preposterous State of the union address, which would make almost any other life experience seem quick by comparison. :)

And man, there were some big typos in my question: "People things" should have been "People say things", and "questionably" should have been "unquestionably".

Time to sign off this computer and start the weekend!

now it’s marriage

Math, marriage, whatever - is there anything other than unlimited reparation checks forever that is not racist, according to some people?

well, whaddaya know?....

(03-06-2024 10:05 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  North Face
Well, there goes their Idaho sales.

"The course, which offered customers 20% off for learning about antiracism for one hour, contained elements of critical race theory, according to Heritage Foundation DEI expert Mike Gonzalez.
"It was the longest hour I have ever lived," Gonzalez said. "
Apparently the Heritage Foundation DEI expert has led an incredibly coddled life.

Or it was a really bad presentation.

it's racist to stop black crime

No wonder it is so easy for Smurfs to level the charge of racism. Everything is racist.