Penny's teams have never played up to their potential. 6 yrs is more than a trend.

You don’t think last years team did? 26-9. Conf tournament champs. 3 of the losses on last second shots. All losses by a total of 32 points, a win over the #1 team in the country on a neutral floor and all of that with a roster of KD, Deandre and a bunch of role players. The complete story isn’t written for this years team but they have played their way from unranked to top 10. Already had a 10 game winning streak in which they beat 3 ranked power 5 teams in a row. 6-1 vs the SEC and ACC combined. All of this with an entirely new roster of transfers. His teams always seem to have a head scratching loss or 2 and then get rolling this time of year.


But it’s college basketball. Everyone has a couple of WTF losses during the course of the season.

(01-23-2024 08:20 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  You don’t think last years team did? 26-9. Conf tournament champs. 3 of the losses on last second shots. All losses by a total of 32 points, a win over the #1 team in the country on a neutral floor and all of that with a roster of KD, Deandre and a bunch of role players. The complete story isn’t written for this years team but they have played their way from unranked to top 10. Already had a 10 game winning streak in which they beat 3 ranked power 5 teams in a row. 6-1 vs the SEC and ACC combined. All of this with an entirely new roster of transfers. His teams always seem to have a head scratching loss or 2 and then get rolling this time of year.


But it’s college basketball. Everyone has a couple of WTF losses during the course of the season.

Getting beat in first round last year pretty much negated anything good.

Consider the source folks

In years past, Penny's teams have been consistently good on set plays out of a timeout. Not sure what changed this year - either the players aren't running the designed play, or Penny is not calling an effective play, or both. The three by Ashton under 2 minutes to play looked like designed play and got an open look. Ashton being in the game was the questionable part. The last possession looked broken from the start. There was simply no reason not to drive inside. If nothing else you can still kick out to Jones for a 3.

I think we need to develop a consistent (multi year) core. We saw it with Tulane (Cross, James, and Forbes). We saw it with Houston (Shead, Mark, and Sasser). Penny consistently talks about leader in the locker room--I think he has to develop that. I don't think you can easily get that person to transfer in (he got lucky with Mills, I think; but look what's happened in Mills' absence).

Based on that, I believe that Carl Cherenfant is extremely important to the program. Not just him and his skill set, but to establish a culture of 3 year players as a core surrounded by transfers and 1 yr players rounding out things. I think Penny's defensive strategy is too complex to have wholesale changes every year and be effective. Our best defensive year was the NIT championship. That team was anchored by a bunch of returning players surrounded by Nolley, DeAndre, and Moussa.

(01-23-2024 09:02 AM)gotohellolemiss Wrote:  In years past, Penny's teams have been consistently good on set plays out of a timeout. Not sure what changed this year - either the players aren't running the designed play, or Penny is not calling an effective play, or both. The three by Ashton under 2 minutes to play looked like designed play and got an open look. Ashton being in the game was the questionable part. The last possession looked broken from the start. There was simply no reason not to drive inside. If nothing else you can still kick out to Jones for a 3.

Jayden walked the ball up the court

The problem with Penny’s teams is by season’s end, everyone is ready to move on, assistant coaches included; so establishing a core is difficult.

(01-23-2024 09:13 AM)micman Wrote:  I think we need to develop a consistent (multi year) core. We saw it with Tulane (Cross, James, and Forbes). We saw it with Houston (Shead, Mark, and Sasser). Penny consistently talks about leader in the locker room--I think he has to develop that. I don't think you can easily get that person to transfer in (he got lucky with Mills, I think; but look what's happened in Mills' absence).

Based on that, I believe that Carl Cherenfant is extremely important to the program. Not just him and his skill set, but to establish a culture of 3 year players as a core surrounded by transfers and 1 yr players rounding out things. I think Penny's defensive strategy is too complex to have wholesale changes every year and be effective. Our best defensive year was the NIT championship. That team was anchored by a bunch of returning players surrounded by Nolley, DeAndre, and Moussa.

Didnt Mark transfer to Arkansas after a year at Houston?

(01-23-2024 09:13 AM)micman Wrote:  I think we need to develop a consistent (multi year) core. We saw it with Tulane (Cross, James, and Forbes). We saw it with Houston (Shead, Mark, and Sasser). Penny consistently talks about leader in the locker room--I think he has to develop that. I don't think you can easily get that person to transfer in (he got lucky with Mills, I think; but look what's happened in Mills' absence).

Based on that, I believe that Carl Cherenfant is extremely important to the program. Not just him and his skill set, but to establish a culture of 3 year players as a core surrounded by transfers and 1 yr players rounding out things. I think Penny's defensive strategy is too complex to have wholesale changes every year and be effective. Our best defensive year was the NIT championship. That team was anchored by a bunch of returning players surrounded by Nolley, DeAndre, and Moussa.

Penny has players that stay 4-5 even 6 years. The problem is those players aren’t any good

(01-23-2024 10:17 AM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  

(01-23-2024 09:13 AM)micman Wrote:  I think we need to develop a consistent (multi year) core. We saw it with Tulane (Cross, James, and Forbes). We saw it with Houston (Shead, Mark, and Sasser). Penny consistently talks about leader in the locker room--I think he has to develop that. I don't think you can easily get that person to transfer in (he got lucky with Mills, I think; but look what's happened in Mills' absence).

Based on that, I believe that Carl Cherenfant is extremely important to the program. Not just him and his skill set, but to establish a culture of 3 year players as a core surrounded by transfers and 1 yr players rounding out things. I think Penny's defensive strategy is too complex to have wholesale changes every year and be effective. Our best defensive year was the NIT championship. That team was anchored by a bunch of returning players surrounded by Nolley, DeAndre, and Moussa.

Didnt Mark transfer to Arkansas after a year at Houston?

He was at Houston for 3 years. He was injured most of his sophomore year.

(01-23-2024 10:30 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(01-23-2024 09:13 AM)micman Wrote:  I think we need to develop a consistent (multi year) core. We saw it with Tulane (Cross, James, and Forbes). We saw it with Houston (Shead, Mark, and Sasser). Penny consistently talks about leader in the locker room--I think he has to develop that. I don't think you can easily get that person to transfer in (he got lucky with Mills, I think; but look what's happened in Mills' absence).

Based on that, I believe that Carl Cherenfant is extremely important to the program. Not just him and his skill set, but to establish a culture of 3 year players as a core surrounded by transfers and 1 yr players rounding out things. I think Penny's defensive strategy is too complex to have wholesale changes every year and be effective. Our best defensive year was the NIT championship. That team was anchored by a bunch of returning players surrounded by Nolley, DeAndre, and Moussa.

Penny has players that stay 4-5 even 6 years. The problem is those players aren’t any good

That describes 2 players on the team. One of whom put up 13 pts, 8 reb, and 8 blocks in our last game (hardly someone who isn't any good).

After this year, the players who have eligibilty remaining: Young, Jordain, Pierre, Ashton, and Carl.

If Penny's desired long-term culture is based on elite defense, Cherenfant obviously needs to be a priority.

I believe Jones also has an extra year. As for Malcolm. He is what he is, a great game every 4 or 5. He was obviously the problem the game before and his Instagram post pretty much proved it. If you held a gun to my head I’d say that Ashton will be the only one that returns for next season.

(01-23-2024 11:14 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  I believe Jones also has an extra year. As for Malcolm. He is what he is, a great game every 4 or 5. He was obviously the problem the game before and his Instagram post pretty much proved it. If you held a gun to my head I’d say that Ashton will be the only one that returns for next season.

Truthfully, there are not a lot of potential returners as it stands anyways.

Ashton
Pierre
Carl
Young
Jourdain

I would be a bit surprised if Young, Pierre and/or Jourdain left because they would have to sit a year I believe unless they qualified as grad transfers (no clue on their degree status). I consider any freshman a likely transfer, JJ, Mikey (definitely both gone) and then Carl. I think perhaps two of that group of 5 leave. However, that still involves a complete roster turnover, especially starting positions because Jourdain is the only likely starter of that group of 5 potential returners.

i cant imagine why Carl and Pierre would stay. I suppose its possible that Carl is far worse than Ashton in practice and just hasnt earned the PT or struggles to understand the Xs and Os, and Ashton happens to master them enough to get the nod over Carl or even Pierre...

But I doubt it

(01-23-2024 05:00 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  i cant imagine why Carl and Pierre would stay. I suppose its possible that Carl is far worse than Ashton in practice and just hasnt earned the PT or struggles to understand the Xs and Os, and Ashton happens to master them enough to get the nod over Carl or even Pierre...

But I doubt it

Ashton appears to be a very skilled offensive player. I expect his career to be akin to Tyler Harris. Come off the bench and be an offensive spark.

Based on how much the frosh played in the first half against USF, I think Penny had hoped he'd be able to play these guys a good bit in league play; but it hasn't worked out that way.

(01-23-2024 05:00 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  i cant imagine why Carl and Pierre would stay. I suppose its possible that Carl is far worse than Ashton in practice and just hasnt earned the PT or struggles to understand the Xs and Os, and Ashton happens to master them enough to get the nod over Carl or even Pierre...

But I doubt it

The only part I disagree with is him possibly not understanding the X’s and O’s, What X’s and O’s are there to understand? Just try and beat your man 1 on 1 or jack up a 3 and you’ve got it mastered..

The primary problem is our poor perimeter defense. Even when we seem to be cognizant of the need to cover a perimeter shooter (about half the time) our guys run at the shooter late after he shoots or the shooter drives past the late defender & gets to the basket. Lack of effort or sagging off side D, either way it isn't working.

(01-23-2024 09:08 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  The primary problem is our poor perimeter defense. Even when we seem to be cognizant of the need to cover a perimeter shooter (about half the time) our guys run at the shooter late after he shoots or the shooter drives past the late defender & gets to the basket. Lack of effort or sagging off side D, either way it isn't working.

It’s amazing how many wide open corner 3s we give up

(01-23-2024 05:05 PM)micman Wrote:  

(01-23-2024 05:00 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  i cant imagine why Carl and Pierre would stay. I suppose its possible that Carl is far worse than Ashton in practice and just hasnt earned the PT or struggles to understand the Xs and Os, and Ashton happens to master them enough to get the nod over Carl or even Pierre...

But I doubt it

Ashton appears to be a very skilled offensive player. I expect his career to be akin to Tyler Harris. Come off the bench and be an offensive spark.

Based on how much the frosh played in the first half against USF, I think Penny had hoped he'd be able to play these guys a good bit in league play; but it hasn't worked out that way.

What is he skilled at ? He’s not very athletic and he’s had one game where he shot well. He doesn’t rebound and gets beat constantly on defense. Sorry but he’s basically like David Wingett and John Camden. The Michigan game was a long long time ago.