(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

I disagree. At least in a zone you won’t have 3 guys ball chasing like we do in man to man

(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

Our big men are on the perimeter every play. I think our rebounding would actually improve in a zone since your bigs are anchored to the paint.

(01-30-2024 12:58 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

Our big men are on the perimeter every play. I think our rebounding would actually improve in a zone since your bigs are anchored to the paint.

This

(01-30-2024 11:34 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

I disagree. At least in a zone you won’t have 3 guys ball chasing like we do in man to man

We chase the ball because we overplay passing lanes and weakside defenders needlessly. A zone does nothing to stop poor discipline. We are not going to suddenly stop overplaying passing lanes because of a zone and our weakside defenders are not going to magically become more disciplined and stop crashing.

(01-30-2024 12:58 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

Our big men are on the perimeter every play. I think our rebounding would actually improve in a zone since your bigs are anchored to the paint.

That is partially true but also really pay attention to our bigs (really team at large). They are often in position but just do not block out, like the defense that is a discipline issue. A zone is going to make it more difficult for them to block out, not easier. The other thing our bigs do is all of them trying to over-contest and block every shot instead of playing straight up. Again discipline that a zone does not magically change.

It is hard to say that our defense would get worse because it feels like this is as bad as possible so I guess you could try it because it cannot get worse but I pretty much guarantee a zone would just as big of a disaster and not fixable. Our man defense should be fixable because we saw it be good and excellent at times leading up to this 5 game stretch.

(01-31-2024 07:17 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 11:34 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

I disagree. At least in a zone you won’t have 3 guys ball chasing like we do in man to man

We chase the ball because we overplay passing lanes and weakside defenders needlessly. A zone does nothing to stop poor discipline. We are not going to suddenly stop overplaying passing lanes because of a zone and our weakside defenders are not going to magically become more disciplined and stop crashing.

Penny is heavily influenced by the old AR defense played during their national championship years when he was playing - a suffocating man where the ball is double teamed everywhere. He doesn't recognize he doesn't have the players for that defense over a whole game. And it certainly wasn't effective except very early against UAB. Where I fault Penny is his unwillingness to change defense, maybe aggressive on-ball defense by one defender without the continuous double teams that led to wide open shots (we don't play zone effectively either). And BTW, neither Hardaway can play defense & can't be in the floor together.

(01-31-2024 08:14 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 07:17 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 11:34 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 06:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 04:52 PM)Poolshrk111 Wrote:  If Penny can't get them to buy in on the defensive end it's time to officially make them play zone. We have the length to make it work. You could easily play a mixture of zones - 2/3, 3/2, 1-3-1, etc. You could even still mix in man-to-man.

Zone will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. Zone defense requires more discipline than man to man. Our defensive issues are discipline and effort and zone is not the fix for that. We may never get a defensive rebound if we ran a zone...

I disagree. At least in a zone you won’t have 3 guys ball chasing like we do in man to man

We chase the ball because we overplay passing lanes and weakside defenders needlessly. A zone does nothing to stop poor discipline. We are not going to suddenly stop overplaying passing lanes because of a zone and our weakside defenders are not going to magically become more disciplined and stop crashing.

Penny is heavily influenced by the old AR defense played during their national championship years when he was playing - a suffocating man where the ball is double teamed everywhere. He doesn't recognize he doesn't have the players for that defense over a whole game. And it certainly wasn't effective except very early against UAB. Where I fault Penny is his unwillingness to change defense, maybe aggressive on-ball defense by one defender without the continuous double teams that led to wide open shots (we don't play zone effectively either). And BTW, neither Hardaway can play defense & can't be in the floor together.

This is also not the early to mid 90s where hand checking was allowed. Once they deemed that a foul the Nolan 40 minutes of hell was not really feasible anymore.