Alabama is going to give Dabo a phone call. FSU is restocking the talent they are losing. Tell me your deepest darkest fears.

(01-10-2024 09:12 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Alabama is going to give Dabo a phone call. FSU is restocking the talent they are losing. Tell me your deepest darkest fears.

Ya'll gonna finally call Prime if they nab Norvell?

I'd like to think Dabo has such a good job that he wouldn't go to Bama and get fired after 3 or 4 years.

But maybe that's his plan. Sign a 10-year $150 mil deal and retire after he's fired.

Dabo can coach. He actually did a great job this season turning it around and beating Notre Dame and Kentucky. They only lost by a TD to full strength FSU.

My point is, I don't think it's written in stone he'd fail at his alma mater.

(01-11-2024 06:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dabo can coach. He actually did a great job this season turning it around and beating Notre Dame and Kentucky. They only lost by a TD to full strength FSU.

My point is, I don't think it's written in stone he'd fail at his alma mater.

Nobody is saying Dabo would fail. We're all saying he would be hired to be fired. "Don't be the guy to follow the guy."

(01-11-2024 06:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dabo can coach. He actually did a great job this season turning it around and beating Notre Dame and Kentucky. They only lost by a TD to full strength FSU.

My point is, I don't think it's written in stone he'd fail at his alma mater.

I think he'd be successful but if he loses 3 games in any of his first 3 years, he won't see a 4th year.

All of these guys supposedly headed to Alabama, aren't. This is how their agents drive up their current paychecks and collect a % every time we play musical chairs. They learned a long time ago, especially Jimmy Sexton, how to quadruple their profits on every big move. Talk up guys at other programs, panic their administration and donors into signing extensions or giving raises, and then really clean up on the one who does head to Alabama. How does Dabo possibly get a raise after the last two seasons? Start a rumor that Momma wants him.

(01-11-2024 06:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All of these guys supposedly headed to Alabama, aren't. This is how their agents drive up their current paychecks and collect an % every time we play musical chairs. They learned a long time ago, especially Jimmy Sexton, how to quadruple their profits on every big move. Talk up guys at other programs, panic their administration and donors into signing extensions or giving raises, and then really clean up on the one who does head to Alabama. How does Dabo possibly get a raise after the last two seasons? Start a rumor that Momma wants him.

FSU knows all about the games Jimmy Sexton plays.

(01-11-2024 06:14 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(01-11-2024 06:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All of these guys supposedly headed to Alabama, aren't. This is how their agents drive up their current paychecks and collect an % every time we play musical chairs. They learned a long time ago, especially Jimmy Sexton, how to quadruple their profits on every big move. Talk up guys at other programs, panic their administration and donors into signing extensions or giving raises, and then really clean up on the one who does head to Alabama. How does Dabo possibly get a raise after the last two seasons? Start a rumor that Momma wants him.

FSU knows all about the games Jimmy Sexton plays.

I thought that was Wyatt Sexton

https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...-acc-saban

FSU signs Mike Norvell to 8 year, $10m per year extension.

(01-12-2024 01:01 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...-acc-saban

FSU signs Mike Norvell to 8 year, $10m per year extension.

Jimmy Sexton gets an 8 million dollar payday! Mike Norvell gets 72 million, both minus taxes! I wonder why Norvell's name was mentioned for Alabama? Oh yeah, they call it leverage in contract negotiations. Most places it's called extortion.

(01-12-2024 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-12-2024 01:01 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...-acc-saban

FSU signs Mike Norvell to 8 year, $10m per year extension.

Jimmy Sexton gets an 8 million dollar payday! Mike Norvell gets 72 million, both minus taxes! I wonder why Norvell's name was mentioned for Alabama? Oh yeah, they call it leverage in contract negotiations. Most places it's called extortion.

The perfect example of what's wrong with collegiate athletics.
Matter of fact, it's what's wrong with most religious denominations today.
Leadership is no longer a calling, but just a means to make as much money as possible.
The more "media income" the programs make, the more the coaches get paid and the more the institutions stick their hands out, telling the fans that they need to contribute. The fans are being abused. As attendance dwindles over most areas of the country, somebody had better start paying attention, before the Goose dies.

(01-14-2024 09:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-12-2024 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-12-2024 01:01 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...-acc-saban

FSU signs Mike Norvell to 8 year, $10m per year extension.

Jimmy Sexton gets an 8 million dollar payday! Mike Norvell gets 72 million, both minus taxes! I wonder why Norvell's name was mentioned for Alabama? Oh yeah, they call it leverage in contract negotiations. Most places it's called extortion.

The perfect example of what's wrong with collegiate athletics.
Matter of fact, it's what's wrong with most religious denominations today.
Leadership is no longer a calling, but just a means to make as much money as possible.
The more "media income" the programs make, the more the coaches get paid and the more the institutions stick their hands out, telling the fans that they need to contribute. The fans are being abused. As attendance dwindles over most areas of the country, somebody had better start paying attention, before the Goose dies.

My wife and I tithe, not to the school, though we have donated, not to a church denomination, though we have been Christian and worked missions for easily half or more of our entire working life and did tithe to churches prior to learning how they operated. When it became evident that a call was no longer involved in church ministry, they were having career days at high schools to persuade students to become ministers, we decided to just give directly to those we were commanded by Christ to support. So, we tithe now to St. Jude children's hospital, an orphanage, and a local food bank all of which (and it took some time to find an orphanage which filled our requirement) give 100% of the money to meet the needs of the sick, the poor, and the orphaned. We help strangers within the gate out of pocket money and have worked to help the homebound widows and widowers, though our service there is now to two aged moms.

When a bishop in our denomination was making 150,000 a year plus 25,000 in travel allowance and another 25,000 for a personal secretary, and those working as heads of districts under them were making 110,000, and all had free homes to live in, and the kids coming out of seminary were 60 to 80 thousand in debt and were being appointed to the worst paying (poorest) areas as their first level of service where their families earned less than the 25,000 the bishop's secretary got, their kids were in lousy schools, and the homes they were provided had all manner of maladies, it was clear that we had a few clergy getting fat of the labors and service of all of the rest. It was time to let that system die, personalize the responsibility for ministry, and move on!

So, I applaud you for including institutional church bureaucracy in this mess, because it rightfully belongs there. That's not to say that pastors get into it for the wrong reasons, but it is to say those who do for the right reasons are frequently abused by the systems they are placed in to serve. It's sad and something all Christians need to be aware of.

Hmm? I had not suspected, but perhaps Jimmy Sexton is an agent for Bishop's too? I know that in our denomination 7 of the bishops were professional students who stayed in school for the entire Viet Nam war. They were each a son of a millionaire so they could avoid service to country with a BA/BS, a Masters, then a Master of Theology (3-year program) and that got most of them through 1966 to 73 and some a bit longer. Sadly, when you were around them the most religious thing about them was the denominational lapel pin.

(01-14-2024 02:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  My wife and I tithe, not to the school, though we have donated, not to a church denomination, though we have been Christian and worked missions for easily half or more of our entire working life and did tithe to churches prior to learning how they operated. When it became evident that a call was no longer involved in church ministry, they were having career days at high schools to persuade students to become ministers, we decided to just give directly to those we were commanded by Christ to support. So, we tithe now to St. Jude children's hospital, an orphanage, and a local food bank all of which (and it took some time to find an orphanage which filled our requirement) give 100% of the money to meet the needs of the sick, the poor, and the orphaned. We help strangers within the gate out of pocket money and have worked to help the homebound widows and widowers, though our service there is now to two aged moms.

When a bishop in our denomination was making 150,000 a year plus 25,000 in travel allowance and another 25,000 for a personal secretary, and those working as heads of districts under them were making 110,000, and all had free homes to live in, and the kids coming out of seminary were 60 to 80 thousand in debt and were being appointed to the worst paying (poorest) areas as their first level of service where their families earned less than the 25,000 the bishop's secretary got, their kids were in lousy schools, and the homes they were provided had all manner of maladies, it was clear that we had a few clergy getting fat of the labors and service of all of the rest. It was time to let that system die, personalize the responsibility for ministry, and move on!

So, I applaud you for including institutional church bureaucracy in this mess, because it rightfully belongs there. That's not to say that pastors get into it for the wrong reasons, but it is to say those who do for the right reasons are frequently abused by the systems they are placed in to serve. It's sad and something all Christians need to be aware of.

Hmm? I had not suspected, but perhaps Jimmy Sexton is an agent for Bishop's too? I know that in our denomination 7 of the bishops were professional students who stayed in school for the entire Viet Nam war. They were each a son of a millionaire so they could avoid service to country with a BA/BS, a Masters, then a Master of Theology (3-year program) and that got most of them through 1966 to 73 and some a bit longer. Sadly, when you were around them the most religious thing about them was the denominational lapel pin.

I recently got an Email from my church about our new Minister (we seem to get a new one every few years). And I was curious what they were making since they take a vow of poverty and we can't seem to keep a minister.

He makes $5500 a month. So $66,000 a year. That's more than most teachers make and they have to pay for their own supplies and they haven't taken a vow of poverty.

So... I'm torn, should we pay more so that we're not changing ministers every few years or some other solution. I can't imagine finding a minister that would accept less would work.

(01-14-2024 03:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 02:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  My wife and I tithe, not to the school, though we have donated, not to a church denomination, though we have been Christian and worked missions for easily half or more of our entire working life and did tithe to churches prior to learning how they operated. When it became evident that a call was no longer involved in church ministry, they were having career days at high schools to persuade students to become ministers, we decided to just give directly to those we were commanded by Christ to support. So, we tithe now to St. Jude children's hospital, an orphanage, and a local food bank all of which (and it took some time to find an orphanage which filled our requirement) give 100% of the money to meet the needs of the sick, the poor, and the orphaned. We help strangers within the gate out of pocket money and have worked to help the homebound widows and widowers, though our service there is now to two aged moms.

When a bishop in our denomination was making 150,000 a year plus 25,000 in travel allowance and another 25,000 for a personal secretary, and those working as heads of districts under them were making 110,000, and all had free homes to live in, and the kids coming out of seminary were 60 to 80 thousand in debt and were being appointed to the worst paying (poorest) areas as their first level of service where their families earned less than the 25,000 the bishop's secretary got, their kids were in lousy schools, and the homes they were provided had all manner of maladies, it was clear that we had a few clergy getting fat of the labors and service of all of the rest. It was time to let that system die, personalize the responsibility for ministry, and move on!

So, I applaud you for including institutional church bureaucracy in this mess, because it rightfully belongs there. That's not to say that pastors get into it for the wrong reasons, but it is to say those who do for the right reasons are frequently abused by the systems they are placed in to serve. It's sad and something all Christians need to be aware of.

Hmm? I had not suspected, but perhaps Jimmy Sexton is an agent for Bishop's too? I know that in our denomination 7 of the bishops were professional students who stayed in school for the entire Viet Nam war. They were each a son of a millionaire so they could avoid service to country with a BA/BS, a Masters, then a Master of Theology (3-year program) and that got most of them through 1966 to 73 and some a bit longer. Sadly, when you were around them the most religious thing about them was the denominational lapel pin.

I recently got an Email from my church about our new Minister (we seem to get a new one every few years). And I was curious what they were making since they take a vow of poverty and we can't seem to keep a minister.

He makes $5500 a month. So $66,000 a year. That's more than most teachers make and they have to pay for their own supplies and they haven't taken a vow of poverty.

So... I'm torn, should we pay more so that we're not changing ministers every few years or some other solution. I can't imagine finding a minister that would accept less would work.

Does he have an income other than a minister?

(01-14-2024 03:22 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 03:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 02:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  My wife and I tithe, not to the school, though we have donated, not to a church denomination, though we have been Christian and worked missions for easily half or more of our entire working life and did tithe to churches prior to learning how they operated. When it became evident that a call was no longer involved in church ministry, they were having career days at high schools to persuade students to become ministers, we decided to just give directly to those we were commanded by Christ to support. So, we tithe now to St. Jude children's hospital, an orphanage, and a local food bank all of which (and it took some time to find an orphanage which filled our requirement) give 100% of the money to meet the needs of the sick, the poor, and the orphaned. We help strangers within the gate out of pocket money and have worked to help the homebound widows and widowers, though our service there is now to two aged moms.

When a bishop in our denomination was making 150,000 a year plus 25,000 in travel allowance and another 25,000 for a personal secretary, and those working as heads of districts under them were making 110,000, and all had free homes to live in, and the kids coming out of seminary were 60 to 80 thousand in debt and were being appointed to the worst paying (poorest) areas as their first level of service where their families earned less than the 25,000 the bishop's secretary got, their kids were in lousy schools, and the homes they were provided had all manner of maladies, it was clear that we had a few clergy getting fat of the labors and service of all of the rest. It was time to let that system die, personalize the responsibility for ministry, and move on!

So, I applaud you for including institutional church bureaucracy in this mess, because it rightfully belongs there. That's not to say that pastors get into it for the wrong reasons, but it is to say those who do for the right reasons are frequently abused by the systems they are placed in to serve. It's sad and something all Christians need to be aware of.

Hmm? I had not suspected, but perhaps Jimmy Sexton is an agent for Bishop's too? I know that in our denomination 7 of the bishops were professional students who stayed in school for the entire Viet Nam war. They were each a son of a millionaire so they could avoid service to country with a BA/BS, a Masters, then a Master of Theology (3-year program) and that got most of them through 1966 to 73 and some a bit longer. Sadly, when you were around them the most religious thing about them was the denominational lapel pin.

I recently got an Email from my church about our new Minister (we seem to get a new one every few years). And I was curious what they were making since they take a vow of poverty and we can't seem to keep a minister.

He makes $5500 a month. So $66,000 a year. That's more than most teachers make and they have to pay for their own supplies and they haven't taken a vow of poverty.

So... I'm torn, should we pay more so that we're not changing ministers every few years or some other solution. I can't imagine finding a minister that would accept less would work.

Does he have an income other than a minister?

That's a good question. I never asked.

(01-14-2024 03:33 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 03:22 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 03:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 02:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  My wife and I tithe, not to the school, though we have donated, not to a church denomination, though we have been Christian and worked missions for easily half or more of our entire working life and did tithe to churches prior to learning how they operated. When it became evident that a call was no longer involved in church ministry, they were having career days at high schools to persuade students to become ministers, we decided to just give directly to those we were commanded by Christ to support. So, we tithe now to St. Jude children's hospital, an orphanage, and a local food bank all of which (and it took some time to find an orphanage which filled our requirement) give 100% of the money to meet the needs of the sick, the poor, and the orphaned. We help strangers within the gate out of pocket money and have worked to help the homebound widows and widowers, though our service there is now to two aged moms.

When a bishop in our denomination was making 150,000 a year plus 25,000 in travel allowance and another 25,000 for a personal secretary, and those working as heads of districts under them were making 110,000, and all had free homes to live in, and the kids coming out of seminary were 60 to 80 thousand in debt and were being appointed to the worst paying (poorest) areas as their first level of service where their families earned less than the 25,000 the bishop's secretary got, their kids were in lousy schools, and the homes they were provided had all manner of maladies, it was clear that we had a few clergy getting fat of the labors and service of all of the rest. It was time to let that system die, personalize the responsibility for ministry, and move on!

So, I applaud you for including institutional church bureaucracy in this mess, because it rightfully belongs there. That's not to say that pastors get into it for the wrong reasons, but it is to say those who do for the right reasons are frequently abused by the systems they are placed in to serve. It's sad and something all Christians need to be aware of.

Hmm? I had not suspected, but perhaps Jimmy Sexton is an agent for Bishop's too? I know that in our denomination 7 of the bishops were professional students who stayed in school for the entire Viet Nam war. They were each a son of a millionaire so they could avoid service to country with a BA/BS, a Masters, then a Master of Theology (3-year program) and that got most of them through 1966 to 73 and some a bit longer. Sadly, when you were around them the most religious thing about them was the denominational lapel pin.

I recently got an Email from my church about our new Minister (we seem to get a new one every few years). And I was curious what they were making since they take a vow of poverty and we can't seem to keep a minister.

He makes $5500 a month. So $66,000 a year. That's more than most teachers make and they have to pay for their own supplies and they haven't taken a vow of poverty.

So... I'm torn, should we pay more so that we're not changing ministers every few years or some other solution. I can't imagine finding a minister that would accept less would work.

Does he have an income other than a minister?

That's a good question. I never asked.

Protestant ministers do not take a vow of poverty. Catholic Priest's do. Is he given a home rent free? Parsonage, Mance, etc. or does he receive a separate housing allowance from his/her salary? Does the church cover all of his insurance premiums other than personal possessions and automobile? If he has his own auto does he get mileage from the church?

Why do I ask? Some ministers get a free house to live in, are provided a car, some provided memberships in the Rotary and Country Club. If you don't ask most don't tell. Other compensation: Funerals, Weddings, Speaking Engagements, Personal Gifts from the Congregation, especially from those who like to have a say in what is done and not done, is his/her spouse given a job, there are oodles of perks. They all add up.

On the clergy side however, there are expenses that people don't realize. Most churches the minister is considered to be self-employed, even in denominations. They pay both ends of the Social Security as a result (15.3% may have gone up a tad). They pay that also on the full rental value of the parsonage and all of its furnishings. They are not building equity, but neither do they have a major expense. Do they tithe? Most do not. Hello! It doesn't mean they don't give, just that they don't tithe.

If you are a member you should have the right to find out all of these details. And ministers once upon a time handled weddings and funerals of their church members for free. Not any more! I am aware of one who in our then home town tried to extort the local funeral home to add an extra fee to their bill so he could collect what he wanted for a funeral $200 instead of what the family gave. I know because the funeral home owner approached me about how to handle it. I told him tell the jerk he could do that but it would require a 1099 on the fees paid. I told the funeral home owner the preacher would avoid that like the plague for fear other income would be discovered. He thanked me later when he told me the preacher passed on that! The two greatest temptation for ministers are in fleecing the flock, and sleeping with the sheep, especially if it is a career and not a calling.

There are some great pastors out there, who are sincere and dedicated, but there are an awful lot of hirelings who want a paycheck and a good many who want a pulpit for political reasons. But remember churches get what they want. Some want a politician, some want a flamboyant prince, some want a good teacher and someone to help them find a ministry within the community. If you want to find a good church ask for a copy of its budget. If it spends a reasonable amount of money helping the hungry, the poor, the widows and the orphans you've likely found a good church. If most of the money goes to staff members, then you've found a professional fund-raising business. If the money goes to organizing and ancillary political agendas you've found the auspices of the RNC or DNC. If it spends oodles on programs that entertain its congregation you have found Masterpiece Theater. Church is supposed to be a mission to its community. Find one of those and you've found a good home.

Where their money is that is where their hearts are also.

(01-14-2024 04:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 03:33 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 03:22 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 03:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-14-2024 02:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  My wife and I tithe, not to the school, though we have donated, not to a church denomination, though we have been Christian and worked missions for easily half or more of our entire working life and did tithe to churches prior to learning how they operated. When it became evident that a call was no longer involved in church ministry, they were having career days at high schools to persuade students to become ministers, we decided to just give directly to those we were commanded by Christ to support. So, we tithe now to St. Jude children's hospital, an orphanage, and a local food bank all of which (and it took some time to find an orphanage which filled our requirement) give 100% of the money to meet the needs of the sick, the poor, and the orphaned. We help strangers within the gate out of pocket money and have worked to help the homebound widows and widowers, though our service there is now to two aged moms.

When a bishop in our denomination was making 150,000 a year plus 25,000 in travel allowance and another 25,000 for a personal secretary, and those working as heads of districts under them were making 110,000, and all had free homes to live in, and the kids coming out of seminary were 60 to 80 thousand in debt and were being appointed to the worst paying (poorest) areas as their first level of service where their families earned less than the 25,000 the bishop's secretary got, their kids were in lousy schools, and the homes they were provided had all manner of maladies, it was clear that we had a few clergy getting fat of the labors and service of all of the rest. It was time to let that system die, personalize the responsibility for ministry, and move on!

So, I applaud you for including institutional church bureaucracy in this mess, because it rightfully belongs there. That's not to say that pastors get into it for the wrong reasons, but it is to say those who do for the right reasons are frequently abused by the systems they are placed in to serve. It's sad and something all Christians need to be aware of.

Hmm? I had not suspected, but perhaps Jimmy Sexton is an agent for Bishop's too? I know that in our denomination 7 of the bishops were professional students who stayed in school for the entire Viet Nam war. They were each a son of a millionaire so they could avoid service to country with a BA/BS, a Masters, then a Master of Theology (3-year program) and that got most of them through 1966 to 73 and some a bit longer. Sadly, when you were around them the most religious thing about them was the denominational lapel pin.

I recently got an Email from my church about our new Minister (we seem to get a new one every few years). And I was curious what they were making since they take a vow of poverty and we can't seem to keep a minister.

He makes $5500 a month. So $66,000 a year. That's more than most teachers make and they have to pay for their own supplies and they haven't taken a vow of poverty.

So... I'm torn, should we pay more so that we're not changing ministers every few years or some other solution. I can't imagine finding a minister that would accept less would work.

Does he have an income other than a minister?

That's a good question. I never asked.

Protestant ministers do not take a vow of poverty. Catholic Priest's do. Is he given a home rent free? Parsonage, Mance, etc. or does he receive a separate housing allowance from his/her salary? Does the church cover all of his insurance premiums other than personal possessions and automobile? If he has his own auto does he get mileage from the church?

Why do I ask? Some ministers get a free house to live in, are provided a car, some provided memberships in the Rotary and Country Club. If you don't ask most don't tell. Other compensation: Funerals, Weddings, Speaking Engagements, Personal Gifts from the Congregation, especially from those who like to have a say in what is done and not done, is his/her spouse given a job, there are oodles of perks. They all add up.

On the clergy side however, there are expenses that people don't realize. Most churches the minister is considered to be self-employed, even in denominations. They pay both ends of the Social Security as a result (15.3% may have gone up a tad). They pay that also on the full rental value of the parsonage and all of its furnishings. They are not building equity, but neither do they have a major expense. Do they tithe? Most do not. Hello! It doesn't mean they don't give, just that they don't tithe.

If you are a member you should have the right to find out all of these details. And ministers once upon a time handled weddings and funerals of their church members for free. Not any more! I am aware of one who in our then home town tried to extort the local funeral home to add an extra fee to their bill so he could collect what he wanted for a funeral $200 instead of what the family gave. I know because the funeral home owner approached me about how to handle it. I told him tell the jerk he could do that but it would require a 1099 on the fees paid. I told the funeral home owner the preacher would avoid that like the plague for fear other income would be discovered. He thanked me later when he told me the preacher passed on that! The two greatest temptation for ministers are in fleecing the flock, and sleeping with the sheep, especially if it is a career and not a calling.

There are some great pastors out there, who are sincere and dedicated, but there are an awful lot of hirelings who want a paycheck and a good many who want a pulpit for political reasons. But remember churches get what they want. Some want a politician, some want a flamboyant prince, some want a good teacher and someone to help them find a ministry within the community. If you want to find a good church ask for a copy of its budget. If it spends a reasonable amount of money helping the hungry, the poor, the widows and the orphans you've likely found a good church. If most of the money goes to staff members, then you've found a professional fund-raising business. If the money goes to organizing and ancillary political agendas you've found the auspices of the RNC or DNC. If it spends oodles on programs that entertain its congregation you have found Masterpiece Theater. Church is supposed to be a mission to its community. Find one of those and you've found a good home.

Where their money is that is where their hearts are also.

Matthew 10:8 — GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
"8 Cure the sick, bring the dead back to life, cleanse those with skin diseases, and force demons out of people. Give these things without charging, since you received them without paying."

Not my words, just passing it along...