(01-03-2024 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Think of the realignment implications if Tulane and GT had never left the SEC. Is there even a need to expand in 1990? What kind of implications does that have on programs like Arkansas and South Carolina?

Arkansas takes Baylor’s place in the Big 12?
SC eventually finds there way back into the ACC?
Is the fall of Big East football expedited?

Or, maybe the SEC doesn’t bat an eye at 14 and they add Arkansas and Florida St?

Keep in mind that Georgia Tech and Tulane duplicated markets in an era where adding markets was the whole point. The SEC still adds, still likely seeks more than 2, just 4 instead of the original 6. Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma. The settle would still have been for Arkansas and South Carolina who was independent and available.

UPDATE

OVIES + GIGLIO Podcast: Florida State vs ACC: The Battle Over Grant of Rights

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7MwUczWWpo

The Monty Show: Florida State Vs The ACC Conference ...Who Will Win?

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WmkJQMioQg

Okay, I listened to both of these podcasts and these talking heads seeking hits for advertising money are way, way, I mean different town, different ballpark, off base!

Here's the hard data:

The SEC has one school below 48th position in earnings: Vanderbilt*

The Big 10 had 2 schools below 48th position in earnings: Maryland* and Rutgers*.

Nobody is getting demoted!

Even if you take those three off and add the next 3 in Arizona* and West Virginia would be in the top 48, as would Maryland who is 51st and would still be in. Rutgers is 54th and Vanderbilt is 55th in earnings.

Now if you look at the schools who are in the Big 12 (including former PAC schools) and in the ACC which are in the top 48 positions here is what realistically should be the candidates for membership inclusion in two super conferences of 24 schools each named the SEC and Big 10:

Name/Overall Position/Total Revenue in Millions/WSJ Valuation Millions/Attendance:
*Denotes AAU Status

Florida State/10th/155.7M/370M/67,254

Louisville/15th/140M/414M/41,692

Stanford/21st/133.6M/305M/29,965*

Clemson/26th/122.3M/305M/80,694

Miami/29th/115.3M/221M/59,964*

Texas Christian/30th/114.4M/248M/46,562

Duke/33rd/109.8M/269M/24,505*

Kansas/34th/108.2M/527.5M/43,076*

North Carolina/35th/107.8M/301M/47,933*

Virginia/36th/107M/199M/40,681*

Baylor/37th/107M/137.6M/45,463

California/38th/105M/258.5M/41,593*

Arizona State/42nd/101.9M/368.4M/43,081*

Pittsburgh/45th/99.9M/162.1M/54,910*

Virginia Tech/46th/99M/330.4M/64,254

Colorado/48th/95.6M/259.2M/42,847*

Big 10 Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
149.8M/488.4M/66,062

SEC Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
155.2M/612.8M/76,543

COMMENTS:
1. Is anybody going to tell me that the SEC and Big 10 don't have an interest in adding a top 10 team in Florida State? Really! The First Podcast was hooey. The Second one only relevant if FSU does not settle and can't get out of the GOR.

2. In a 24 member SEC and a 24 member Big 10 Every school on this list will be looked at. For the Big 10 they will have to weigh Non-AAU schools carefully.

3. Look to see how many Big 10 and SEC averages are exceeded for the criteria of Gross Revenue / Wall Street Journal Valuations / Attendance and you will have your most likely targets.

4. The SEC and Big 10 all look at these numbers. The networks look at these numbers and viewership numbers which are not always available and then not assessed equally which is why I left it out. Fit and number of schools to a state are also criteria. The general rule of thumb for the number of schools taken from one State is 1 school per 5 million in population. States like Mississippi and Alabama, and South Carolina which have 2 key schools were mostly included before air travel due to distance.

Keep these things in mind and the B.S. which is knee deep on many boards will begin to sort itself out for you.

Florida has twice nominated FSU for membership in the SEC. Animus is fiction. South Carolina wanted to nominate Clemson in 2011. Anti Clemson is more fiction.
Does anyone believe that any state school which keeps another state school from the same state out is going to be treated favorably by their State's appropriations committee? Use some common sense! There are no blackballs in Realignment. It's all about Money and Fit and Markets.

Now please come up with some realistic scenarios including schools which can make a difference.

This list is why I think 18 is more profitable for the SEC and Big 10, 20 is better market wise and still profitable, and 24 only happens if the networks need 12 games a week to choose from allowing for byes.

Color Code:
Blue: Exceeds SEC and Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Green: Exceeds Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Purple: New Markets for both the SEC and Big 10
Orange: New Markets for the Big 10 (Those schools outside of the SEC's proclaimed market area are not highlighted)

Note: Only Notre Dame exceeds all averages for the SEC and Big 10 and is not listed here because they are the only school to attain that status.

Now my thinking as to the picks:

At 18:

Florida State and Kansas: FSU has the highest earnings and Kansas the highest valuation. FSU gives ESPN and the SEC the supermajority of Florida viewers and Kansas is AAU wraps up the SEC West and gives Kentucky a major blue blood rival.

At 20:

The two above and North Carolina and Virginia or Virginia Tech. UNC and Va Tech give the SEC the two most viewed in a combined population of 20 million for the two states. The two best remaining markets.

At 24:

Clemson with the highest attendance and best travel crowd, the third highest revenue in the ACC and North Carolina gets a pick of traveling mate so either Duke/or N.C. State.
The other two schools would be selected from a Virginia school if available or the 3rd North Carolina school (Duke/N.C. State) to keep the research triangle together, or Louisville which has the 2nd highest Valuation and the second highest earnings. And those would be based upon availability and are listed in no particular order for the last 2.

With the Big 10 I'm sure there would be some overlap. Perhaps they would take Virginia, Duke, Georgia Tech and Miami.

The interesting part here is for every 1 school the Big 10 takes from the ACC they pay for ESPN's overhead for 1 school to the SEC. If the SEC picked up 7 ACC schools and Kansas and the Big 10 picked up 4 which were not Notre Dame the total cost of the move of Kansas and 7 ACC schools to the SEC would be around 140 million. The cost to FOX for the 4 ACC schools acquired would be 320 million to them and/or their partners. With that many gone the ACCN would no longer be necessary and the total cost to ESPN would shrink to around 40 million.

Personally, I now believe the easiest thing for ESPN to do, and the cheapest, is to move FSU to the SEC (costs ESPN 35 million) add USF to the ACC costs ESPN about 25 million. And stop. If Kansas joined FSU, it would be another 35 million. A single SEC game is worth about 7 million. Florida State with 8 SEC games would generate 56 million for ESPN. Kansas would pay down theirs with a combination of basketball and football games and some added market. Those two moves do not disadvantage the Big 10 inasmuch as they don't need Kansas to get those markets and Miami would be the better target for them demographically and for access.

For the ACC taking FSU's buyout and letting them go may be all that's needed to halt any further realignment out of the ACC for a decade or more. A Big 10 of 18 schools couldn't bellyache to much if the SEC stopped at 18.

I feel like people are forgetting that the Big Ten is already at 18 teams.
If the SEC adds 2 more they will be equal in size.

Charlotte lawyer, FSU fan is interviewed by Jeff Cameron. He weighs in what he thinks will happen. He mentions that an unequal revenue share in the ACC might be on the table for the settlement.

(01-04-2024 01:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Personally, I now believe the easiest thing for ESPN to do, and the cheapest, is to move FSU to the SEC (costs ESPN 35 million) add USF to the ACC costs ESPN about 25 million. And stop. If Kansas joined FSU, it would be another 35 million. A single SEC game is worth about 7 million. Florida State with 8 SEC games would generate 56 million for ESPN. Kansas would pay down theirs with a combination of basketball and football games and some added market. Those two moves do not disadvantage the Big 10 inasmuch as they don't need Kansas to get those markets and Miami would be the better target for them demographically and for access.

For the ACC taking FSU's buyout and letting them go may be all that's needed to halt any further realignment out of the ACC for a decade or more. A Big 10 of 18 schools couldn't bellyache to much if the SEC stopped at 18.[/b]

I agree with your point. I wonder if that is what will happen or if ESPN and ACC will fight to keep FSU in the ACC and if they offer them a settlement would part of that to be putting FSU in the BIG12? Would ESPN reward FSU behavior with SEC membership?

(01-04-2024 07:42 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Charlotte lawyer, FSU fan is interviewed by Jeff Cameron. He weighs in what he thinks will happen. He mentions that an unequal revenue share in the ACC might be on the table for the settlement.

to keep the peace ...
you get way more ...
because ?!?
I say ...
let 'em go ...

PUT MY FOOT DOWN

(01-04-2024 07:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(01-04-2024 01:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Personally, I now believe the easiest thing for ESPN to do, and the cheapest, is to move FSU to the SEC (costs ESPN 35 million) add USF to the ACC costs ESPN about 25 million. And stop. If Kansas joined FSU, it would be another 35 million. A single SEC game is worth about 7 million. Florida State with 8 SEC games would generate 56 million for ESPN. Kansas would pay down theirs with a combination of basketball and football games and some added market. Those two moves do not disadvantage the Big 10 inasmuch as they don't need Kansas to get those markets and Miami would be the better target for them demographically and for access.

For the ACC taking FSU's buyout and letting them go may be all that's needed to halt any further realignment out of the ACC for a decade or more. A Big 10 of 18 schools couldn't bellyache to much if the SEC stopped at 18.[/b]

I agree with your point. I wonder if that is what will happen or if ESPN and ACC will fight to keep FSU in the ACC and if they offer them a settlement would part of that to be putting FSU in the BIG12? Would ESPN reward FSU behavior with SEC membership?

With the current setup of rights deals ESPN controls about 98% of the rights of Florida schools. That's essentially a monopoly. Florida State is 35% of those rights. I don't see ESPN giving that up and risk losing Miami with them which would essentially give FOX 54% of those rights depending upon what kind of year Miami is having. Florida is 42% of those rights. If ESPN placated FSU by compromising that they could move to a P2 but to an ESPN held P2 that preserves ESPN's current rights holdings, because unless Miami footed the same kind of money to depart ESPN would still hold 100% of Florida and FSU which would be about 77% of the college sports viewing market in Florida accounting for some overlap of the reach of the two schools. ESPN is a huge business and FSU may frustrate them, but they aren't giving up the advertising revenue from Florida because of it. They either push to keep FSU in the ACC, or compromise on the SEC. If they have a backroom deal with FOX they risk alienating the SEC and losing their rights by 2034.

(01-03-2024 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Think of the realignment implications if Tulane and GT had never left the SEC. Is there even a need to expand in 1990? What kind of implications does that have on programs like Arkansas and South Carolina?

Arkansas takes Baylor’s place in the Big 12?
SC eventually finds there way back into the ACC?
Is the fall of Big East football expedited?

Or, maybe the SEC doesn’t bat an eye at 14 and they add Arkansas and Florida St?

I agree with the scenarios you put out. The SEC would already be at 12, so there would be no need to expand. The real question is how does that impact all the realignment of the past 14 years?

(12-31-2023 02:46 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:16 PM)Ragu Wrote:  So your big regret is leaving the sec and ending up in the acc. Cool.

Considering FSU is leaving the same acc that GT is in due to a bad choice, I don't think you're accomplishing what you thought you were with this thread ...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If you read the post or any of the links you would see that GT was a powerhouse in the SEC and then went .500 as an independent and watched their facilities dwindle.


Yes GT joined the ACC and yes GT is proud members of the ACC. But with recent reports of SEC not interested in FSU even once they they are out of the grant of rights, tells me FSU might be making the same mistake as GT did.

at hanging your hat on public information.

(01-04-2024 12:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Okay, I listened to both of these podcasts and these talking heads seeking hits for advertising money are way, way, I mean different town, different ballpark, off base!

Here's the hard data:

The SEC has one school below 48th position in earnings: Vanderbilt*

The Big 10 had 2 schools below 48th position in earnings: Maryland* and Rutgers*.

Nobody is getting demoted!

Even if you take those three off and add the next 3 in Arizona* and West Virginia would be in the top 48, as would Maryland who is 51st and would still be in. Rutgers is 54th and Vanderbilt is 55th in earnings.

Now if you look at the schools who are in the Big 12 (including former PAC schools) and in the ACC which are in the top 48 positions here is what realistically should be the candidates for membership inclusion in two super conferences of 24 schools each named the SEC and Big 10:

Name/Overall Position/Total Revenue in Millions/WSJ Valuation Millions/Attendance:
*Denotes AAU Status

Florida State/10th/155.7M/370M/67,254

Louisville/15th/140M/414M/41,692

Stanford/21st/133.6M/305M/29,965*

Clemson/26th/122.3M/305M/80,694

Miami/29th/115.3M/221M/59,964*

Texas Christian/30th/114.4M/248M/46,562

Duke/33rd/109.8M/269M/24,505*

Kansas/34th/108.2M/527.5M/43,076*

North Carolina/35th/107.8M/301M/47,933*

Virginia/36th/107M/199M/40,681*

Baylor/37th/107M/137.6M/45,463

California/38th/105M/258.5M/41,593*

Arizona State/42nd/101.9M/368.4M/43,081*

Pittsburgh/45th/99.9M/162.1M/54,910*

Virginia Tech/46th/99M/330.4M/64,254

Colorado/48th/95.6M/259.2M/42,847*

Big 10 Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
149.8M/488.4M/66,062

SEC Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
155.2M/612.8M/76,543

COMMENTS:
1. Is anybody going to tell me that the SEC and Big 10 don't have an interest in adding a top 10 team in Florida State? Really! The First Podcast was hooey. The Second one only relevant if FSU does not settle and can't get out of the GOR.

2. In a 24 member SEC and a 24 member Big 10 Every school on this list will be looked at. For the Big 10 they will have to weigh Non-AAU schools carefully.

3. Look to see how many Big 10 and SEC averages are exceeded for the criteria of Gross Revenue / Wall Street Journal Valuations / Attendance and you will have your most likely targets.

4. The SEC and Big 10 all look at these numbers. The networks look at these numbers and viewership numbers which are not always available and then not assessed equally which is why I left it out. Fit and number of schools to a state are also criteria. The general rule of thumb for the number of schools taken from one State is 1 school per 5 million in population. States like Mississippi and Alabama, and South Carolina which have 2 key schools were mostly included before air travel due to distance.

Keep these things in mind and the B.S. which is knee deep on many boards will begin to sort itself out for you.

Florida has twice nominated FSU for membership in the SEC. Animus is fiction. South Carolina wanted to nominate Clemson in 2011. Anti Clemson is more fiction.
Does anyone believe that any state school which keeps another state school from the same state out is going to be treated favorably by their State's appropriations committee? Use some common sense! There are no blackballs in Realignment. It's all about Money and Fit and Markets.

Now please come up with some realistic scenarios including schools which can make a difference.

This list is why I think 18 is more profitable for the SEC and Big 10, 20 is better market wise and still profitable, and 24 only happens if the networks need 12 games a week to choose from allowing for byes.

Color Code:
Blue: Exceeds SEC and Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Green: Exceeds Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Purple: New Markets for both the SEC and Big 10
Orange: New Markets for the Big 10 (Those schools outside of the SEC's proclaimed market area are not highlighted)

Note: Only Notre Dame exceeds all averages for the SEC and Big 10 and is not listed here because they are the only school to attain that status.

As has been pointed out before, the WSJ numbers for UNC, Duke, and NC State are deeply flawed because the WSJ is splitting the Research Triangle CMSA into Raleigh and Durham. There's about 2.4 million in the Triangle CMSA - WSJ is using 1.2 for Raleigh and about $700K for Durham. No instrument is going to apply to all situations
but those three are the only three P-4's in the same metro.

(01-05-2024 03:00 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(01-04-2024 12:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Okay, I listened to both of these podcasts and these talking heads seeking hits for advertising money are way, way, I mean different town, different ballpark, off base!

Here's the hard data:

The SEC has one school below 48th position in earnings: Vanderbilt*

The Big 10 had 2 schools below 48th position in earnings: Maryland* and Rutgers*.

Nobody is getting demoted!

Even if you take those three off and add the next 3 in Arizona* and West Virginia would be in the top 48, as would Maryland who is 51st and would still be in. Rutgers is 54th and Vanderbilt is 55th in earnings.

Now if you look at the schools who are in the Big 12 (including former PAC schools) and in the ACC which are in the top 48 positions here is what realistically should be the candidates for membership inclusion in two super conferences of 24 schools each named the SEC and Big 10:

Name/Overall Position/Total Revenue in Millions/WSJ Valuation Millions/Attendance:
*Denotes AAU Status

Florida State/10th/155.7M/370M/67,254

Louisville/15th/140M/414M/41,692

Stanford/21st/133.6M/305M/29,965*

Clemson/26th/122.3M/305M/80,694

Miami/29th/115.3M/221M/59,964*

Texas Christian/30th/114.4M/248M/46,562

Duke/33rd/109.8M/269M/24,505*

Kansas/34th/108.2M/527.5M/43,076*

North Carolina/35th/107.8M/301M/47,933*

Virginia/36th/107M/199M/40,681*

Baylor/37th/107M/137.6M/45,463

California/38th/105M/258.5M/41,593*

Arizona State/42nd/101.9M/368.4M/43,081*

Pittsburgh/45th/99.9M/162.1M/54,910*

Virginia Tech/46th/99M/330.4M/64,254

Colorado/48th/95.6M/259.2M/42,847*

Big 10 Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
149.8M/488.4M/66,062

SEC Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
155.2M/612.8M/76,543

COMMENTS:
1. Is anybody going to tell me that the SEC and Big 10 don't have an interest in adding a top 10 team in Florida State? Really! The First Podcast was hooey. The Second one only relevant if FSU does not settle and can't get out of the GOR.

2. In a 24 member SEC and a 24 member Big 10 Every school on this list will be looked at. For the Big 10 they will have to weigh Non-AAU schools carefully.

3. Look to see how many Big 10 and SEC averages are exceeded for the criteria of Gross Revenue / Wall Street Journal Valuations / Attendance and you will have your most likely targets.

4. The SEC and Big 10 all look at these numbers. The networks look at these numbers and viewership numbers which are not always available and then not assessed equally which is why I left it out. Fit and number of schools to a state are also criteria. The general rule of thumb for the number of schools taken from one State is 1 school per 5 million in population. States like Mississippi and Alabama, and South Carolina which have 2 key schools were mostly included before air travel due to distance.

Keep these things in mind and the B.S. which is knee deep on many boards will begin to sort itself out for you.

Florida has twice nominated FSU for membership in the SEC. Animus is fiction. South Carolina wanted to nominate Clemson in 2011. Anti Clemson is more fiction.
Does anyone believe that any state school which keeps another state school from the same state out is going to be treated favorably by their State's appropriations committee? Use some common sense! There are no blackballs in Realignment. It's all about Money and Fit and Markets.

Now please come up with some realistic scenarios including schools which can make a difference.

This list is why I think 18 is more profitable for the SEC and Big 10, 20 is better market wise and still profitable, and 24 only happens if the networks need 12 games a week to choose from allowing for byes.

Color Code:
Blue: Exceeds SEC and Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Green: Exceeds Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Purple: New Markets for both the SEC and Big 10
Orange: New Markets for the Big 10 (Those schools outside of the SEC's proclaimed market area are not highlighted)

Note: Only Notre Dame exceeds all averages for the SEC and Big 10 and is not listed here because they are the only school to attain that status.

As has been pointed out before, the WSJ numbers for UNC, Duke, and NC State are deeply flawed because the WSJ is splitting the Research Triangle CMSA into Raleigh and Durham. There's about 2.4 million in the Triangle CMSA - WSJ is using 1.2 for Raleigh and about $700K for Durham. No instrument is going to apply to all situations
but those three are the only three P-4's in the same metro.

Don't you believe that those making decisions, university presidents, are well aware of this? The WSJ valuations are a tool for looking at the economic impact a school has upon its region. This situation and that in Los Angeles would be the two impacted. It didn't hurt USC/UCLA, and it won't hurt UNC/NCState/Duke. I don't think the SEC would ignore the synergy of the three and from the academic perspective it is an overwhelming temptation for the presidents. UNC and one other is already acceptable. How much of a stretch is all 3?

JR has seen the light on the NC market. Selfishly speaking ECU needs all of the triangle 3 to find a P2 home.

When you're looking at say, Vanderbilt's earnings, aren't you including their bloated SEC paycheck? I feel like all of that should be deducted to actually measure how valuable they are.

(01-05-2024 03:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 03:00 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(01-04-2024 12:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Okay, I listened to both of these podcasts and these talking heads seeking hits for advertising money are way, way, I mean different town, different ballpark, off base!

Here's the hard data:

The SEC has one school below 48th position in earnings: Vanderbilt*

The Big 10 had 2 schools below 48th position in earnings: Maryland* and Rutgers*.

Nobody is getting demoted!

Even if you take those three off and add the next 3 in Arizona* and West Virginia would be in the top 48, as would Maryland who is 51st and would still be in. Rutgers is 54th and Vanderbilt is 55th in earnings.

Now if you look at the schools who are in the Big 12 (including former PAC schools) and in the ACC which are in the top 48 positions here is what realistically should be the candidates for membership inclusion in two super conferences of 24 schools each named the SEC and Big 10:

Name/Overall Position/Total Revenue in Millions/WSJ Valuation Millions/Attendance:
*Denotes AAU Status

Florida State/10th/155.7M/370M/67,254

Louisville/15th/140M/414M/41,692

Stanford/21st/133.6M/305M/29,965*

Clemson/26th/122.3M/305M/80,694

Miami/29th/115.3M/221M/59,964*

Texas Christian/30th/114.4M/248M/46,562

Duke/33rd/109.8M/269M/24,505*

Kansas/34th/108.2M/527.5M/43,076*

North Carolina/35th/107.8M/301M/47,933*

Virginia/36th/107M/199M/40,681*

Baylor/37th/107M/137.6M/45,463

California/38th/105M/258.5M/41,593*

Arizona State/42nd/101.9M/368.4M/43,081*

Pittsburgh/45th/99.9M/162.1M/54,910*

Virginia Tech/46th/99M/330.4M/64,254

Colorado/48th/95.6M/259.2M/42,847*

Big 10 Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
149.8M/488.4M/66,062

SEC Averages/Gross Revenue/WSJ Valuation/Attendance
155.2M/612.8M/76,543

COMMENTS:
1. Is anybody going to tell me that the SEC and Big 10 don't have an interest in adding a top 10 team in Florida State? Really! The First Podcast was hooey. The Second one only relevant if FSU does not settle and can't get out of the GOR.

2. In a 24 member SEC and a 24 member Big 10 Every school on this list will be looked at. For the Big 10 they will have to weigh Non-AAU schools carefully.

3. Look to see how many Big 10 and SEC averages are exceeded for the criteria of Gross Revenue / Wall Street Journal Valuations / Attendance and you will have your most likely targets.

4. The SEC and Big 10 all look at these numbers. The networks look at these numbers and viewership numbers which are not always available and then not assessed equally which is why I left it out. Fit and number of schools to a state are also criteria. The general rule of thumb for the number of schools taken from one State is 1 school per 5 million in population. States like Mississippi and Alabama, and South Carolina which have 2 key schools were mostly included before air travel due to distance.

Keep these things in mind and the B.S. which is knee deep on many boards will begin to sort itself out for you.

Florida has twice nominated FSU for membership in the SEC. Animus is fiction. South Carolina wanted to nominate Clemson in 2011. Anti Clemson is more fiction.
Does anyone believe that any state school which keeps another state school from the same state out is going to be treated favorably by their State's appropriations committee? Use some common sense! There are no blackballs in Realignment. It's all about Money and Fit and Markets.

Now please come up with some realistic scenarios including schools which can make a difference.

This list is why I think 18 is more profitable for the SEC and Big 10, 20 is better market wise and still profitable, and 24 only happens if the networks need 12 games a week to choose from allowing for byes.

Color Code:
Blue: Exceeds SEC and Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Green: Exceeds Big 10 averages when adjusted for media payout differential
Purple: New Markets for both the SEC and Big 10
Orange: New Markets for the Big 10 (Those schools outside of the SEC's proclaimed market area are not highlighted)

Note: Only Notre Dame exceeds all averages for the SEC and Big 10 and is not listed here because they are the only school to attain that status.

As has been pointed out before, the WSJ numbers for UNC, Duke, and NC State are deeply flawed because the WSJ is splitting the Research Triangle CMSA into Raleigh and Durham. There's about 2.4 million in the Triangle CMSA - WSJ is using 1.2 for Raleigh and about $700K for Durham. No instrument is going to apply to all situations
but those three are the only three P-4's in the same metro.

Don't you believe that those making decisions, university presidents, are well aware of this? The WSJ valuations are a tool for looking at the economic impact a school has upon its region. This situation and that in Los Angeles would be the two impacted. It didn't hurt USC/UCLA, and it won't hurt UNC/NCState/Duke. I don't think the SEC would ignore the synergy of the three and from the academic perspective it is an overwhelming temptation for the presidents. UNC and one other is already acceptable. How much of a stretch is all 3?

Of course the three entities know the real numbers. My point in replying to what you posted is that a lot of rubes run with any presentation of data without questioning the source or quality of the data. Some of the worst offenders over the years have been WSJ, US News, and Forbes.

On top of that you have the plethora of folks who can't distinguish between gross and net or don't understand the basis of accounting being used. Given enough members to a set you can pick out the top fifth and the bottom fifth. The devil is in the middle 60%.

When a real franchise trades hands, real professionals will value the franchise from many different angles and take into account real data not the low hanging kind that has already started to rot on the ground.

The simple question of who makes how much money off sports in the ACC is difficult to tease out because some school use tuition as a profit center and pull a wad of student fees from that source. Others scrimp on tuition. Some show money that pays scholarships for athletes as revenues, some do not. Some school present any dollar pledged as income, while others show only the dollars they have in the bank.

• https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

When you go to the above web site and look at the above stats, the Total Allocated column is the direct transfer from the U to the athletics program for the year. A direct transfer is a gift – like money from your Daddy. A service is not provided for the gift.

UConn poured in 55M for the year
Cal poured in 30 M for the year
UVa and Rutgers poured in 24 M for the year
FSU 22 M
Arizona State 19 M
VT 14 M
UNC 10 M
NC State 7 M
Clemson 6 M

Duke basketball not listed in that table actually gave Duke 12 M in that year.

You have to subtract them out to get an actual close NET.

Also not shown clearly is the transaction related to the private endowment that pays for a scholarship. Did that money show as a revenue or was it entirely suppressed. Is an endowment interest income an actual revenue for the purpose of comparing one program to another, some say yes, some say no. If you show tuition room and board as a revenue from your endowment or booster club you are going to show 27-30 million in and out on your book if you are say UNC or UVa.

Once you standardized the numbers and take into account who did not show the in and out for tuition you get the following:

152 M Clemson Net – Clemson makes a lot off football and IPTAY is the booster club of an AD’s dream. It’s also the only thing in town in the Upstate.
140 M Louisville Net (20M annual YUM Center Sweeheart Deal) The deal with the YUM Center would have landed people in jail in Va or NC.
138 M FSU Net – Stuck in here is non-annual money – one off gifts – but difficult to gauge how much.
137 M UVa Net (Tuition as Income) UVa is the tuition profit center king.
135 M Duke Net (Duke makes over $55 M a year just on basketball) It cost a minimum of $8K to get in line to buy basketball tickets at Duke because Cameron has been kept at 60% of real demand.
113 M UNC Net (140 Tuition as Income) It is internal UNC policy to hide revenue to the athletic program because showing it is gauche.
99 M VT Net
95 M NC State Net
95 M MD Net (Got a lot out moving didn’t they?)
94 M GT Net
85 M Rutgers Net
44 M UConn Net
You might ask yourself how UVa justifies what they do. UVa is free for any poor kid and nearly free for any lower middle income kid so only the rich kid or the endowments are actually paying this bill. As to Louisville, the University owns almost all the revenue made in the YUM center no matter the event yet is on the hook for next to nothing regarding maintenance, upkeep, etc. It would be like NC State getting all the profit from the basketball arena and Gale Force getting all the expenses. At UNC every athletic scholarship is fully endowed. At FSU they use a form of accounting called modified accrual where they show income as soon as it is pledged and then they roll it over every year until they spend it. It's a good way to go bankrupt. It makes their real Net difficult to figure because they include large one-off gifts in that income number.
I don’t know the mind set behind SMU, Cal, and Stanford’s internal tuition pricing and athletics. I just know they sit on a ton of money and can do damn well as they please.

NEWS: NCAA Is expected to levy unprecedented penalties for NIL-related violations committed by Florida State, sources tell @YahooSports, including 3-game suspension for an assistant coach & disassociation from its booster collective and a booster


Other penalties include:

- two years of probation.

- scholarship reductions of five over the next two academic years.

- a reduction by seven in official visits for 2023-24.


- a prohibition on recruiting communication for six weeks over the next two academic years, including this next week (Jan. 12-18).

- a prohibition on communication with athletes in the transfer portal from April 15-21.

- a reduction by 18 evaluation days this spring.

- a financial penalty of 1% of the athletic department’s budget.



https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-to...44221.html

(12-31-2023 12:16 PM)Ragu Wrote:  So your big regret is leaving the sec and ending up in the acc. Cool.

Considering FSU is leaving the same acc that GT is in due to a bad choice, I don't think you're accomplishing what you thought you were with this thread ...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

It was leaving the SEC and going Independent. Georgia Tech, Boosters and Admin thought they were better than the SEC and went Indy. Over the next 20 years they realized they were not ND of the south and were happy to join the ACC.

FSU currently thinks they are better than the ACC (Oh how Bobby Bowden is probably screaming at the current Admin and boosters from his grave)

Time will tell if paying 500-750M dollars is the wise move.