I am seeing reports that Hammock's contract was extended one year through the 2026 season due to a provision in his contract re a Bowl win. Was yesterday's victory a mixed blessing?

(12-24-2023 01:34 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  I am seeing reports that Hammock's contract was extended one year through the 2026 season due to a provision in his contract re a Bowl win. Was yesterday's victory a mixed blessing?

I think he earned it. Honestly if he likes coaching and wants to keep it up, keep winning. I truly believe that was the motivation to fix the defense. It’s going to be the motivation to fix the offense. So it works for me.

I think the offense was awful early, it’s still bad, but change was inspired. Keep it up and things might get fixed just like on defense.

(12-24-2023 01:42 PM)BigChilla Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 01:34 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  I am seeing reports that Hammock's contract was extended one year through the 2026 season due to a provision in his contract re a Bowl win. Was yesterday's victory a mixed blessing?

I think he earned it. Honestly if he likes coaching and wants to keep it up, keep winning. I truly believe that was the motivation to fix the defense. It’s going to be the motivation to fix the offense. So it works for me.

I think the offense was awful early, it’s still bad, but change was inspired. Keep it up and things might get fixed just like on defense.

I like Hammock as a person. But this seems like a rather mediocre way to run a program. Theoretically you can have a job for the rest of your life if you have a couple of so so .500 seasons and win a bowl against a G5 squad.

Nothing to take away from yesterday's amazing win. But we should reward for more than just that. I think that is the bare minimum of acceptability.

(12-24-2023 02:00 PM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 01:42 PM)BigChilla Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 01:34 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  I am seeing reports that Hammock's contract was extended one year through the 2026 season due to a provision in his contract re a Bowl win. Was yesterday's victory a mixed blessing?

I think he earned it. Honestly if he likes coaching and wants to keep it up, keep winning. I truly believe that was the motivation to fix the defense. It’s going to be the motivation to fix the offense. So it works for me.

I think the offense was awful early, it’s still bad, but change was inspired. Keep it up and things might get fixed just like on defense.

I like Hammock as a person. But this seems like a rather mediocre way to run a program. Theoretically you can have a job for the rest of your life if you have a couple of so so .500 seasons and win a bowl against a G5 squad.

Nothing to take away from yesterday's amazing win. But we should reward for more than just that. I think that is the bare minimum of acceptability.

I would agree under normal circumstances…but this program, before yesterday, hadn’t had a bowl win in 12 years.

Bowls mean something. And I have no problem with a contract helping bang that point home.

Contracts for all key employees are public here: https://www.niu.edu/president/about/transparency.shtml

Page 2 outlines that he is automatically extended each year he wins the MAC or wins a bowl game, so assuming his contract now runs through 6/30/2028. He also is extended a year if Frazier leaves during a given season.

(12-25-2023 10:59 AM)McG Wrote:  Contracts for all key employees are public here: https://www.niu.edu/president/about/transparency.shtml

Page 2 outlines that he is automatically extended each year he wins the MAC or wins a bowl game, so assuming his contract now runs through 6/30/2028. He also is extended a year if Frazier leaves during a given season.

MACC > Typical Bowl W

How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

And if STF leaves, automatic addition of a year. I need Hammock's agent.

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

What is the bar? 10-2? How many coaches has NIU fired after an above .500 season?

I do agree that a MACC Championship is worthy of an extension as it means a great regular season record plus a being a champion. I could even see an extension for just making the MACC as you would have at worst the second best record in MAC play plus most likely some tie breakers.

A 6-6 team win while playing a 6-6 team in a bowl is not extension worthy. The contract should read a winning regular season plus a bowl win meaning a most likely 8-5 season (7-5 regular season plus a bowl win) and this may be too low a bar. I say that as I believe a 9-3 season without going to the MACC is more difficult than going 6-6 and winning a bowl against a 6-6 team.


If there were to be automatic extensions, this is what I'd like to see:

1. Make the MACC
2. Regular season record of at least 8-4 with a MAC record of at least 5 wins
3. 7-5 season or better + bowl win resulting in an 8-5 season (this is probably the easiest path)

Remember this is for an automatic one year extension, not a normal renewal process of which an NIU coach being better than .500 would most likely garner an extension.

I have no issues with the bowl win bonus.

But, are automatic extensions really a good idea? What if there are some non winning record reasons to make a coaching change that are under investigation and it would be inappropriate to make an immediate decision about the coach? The coach could garner an automatic extension while investigations are ongoing and once a decision is made, you have already committed to the extension. Should bonuses be the only incentive? Not sure that I agree with automatic extensions, but that may just be the way the coaching business works.

(12-25-2023 10:43 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

What is the bar? 10 -2? How many coaches has NIU fired after an above .500 season?

Yeah...I don't get the consternation here. He's rewarded for MACCs and Bowl Victories as he should be.

Going 6-6 and winning a bowl is an outlier and if anyone thinks a coach can sustain doing that year after year, they are mistaken.

(12-25-2023 11:04 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 10:43 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

What is the bar? 10 -2? How many coaches has NIU fired after an above .500 season?

Yeah...I don't get the consternation here. He's rewarded for MACCs and Bowl Victories as he should be.

Going 6-6 and winning a bowl is an outlier and if anyone thinks a coach can sustain doing that year after year, they are mistaken.

Big Red, I made some changes to my original post since you replied.

(12-25-2023 10:43 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

What is the bar? 10-2? How many coaches has NIU fired after an above .500 season?

I do agree that a MACC Championship is worthy of an extension as it means a great regular season record plus a being a champion. I could even see an extension for just making the MACC as you would have at worst the second best record in MAC play plus most likely some tie breakers.

A 6-6 team win while playing a 6-6 team in a bowl is not extension worthy. The contract should read a winning regular season plus a bowl win meaning a most likely 8-5 season (7-5 regular season plus a bowl win) and this may be too low a bar. I say that as I believe a 9-3 season without going to the MACC is more difficult than going 6-6 and winning a bowl against a 6-6 team.


If there were to be automatic extensions, this is what I'd like to see:

1. Make the MACC
2. Regular season record of at least 8-4 with a MAC record of at least 5 wins
3. 7-5 season or better + bowl win resulting in an 8-5 season (this is probably the easiest path)

Remember this is for an automatic one year extension, not a normal renewal process of which an NIU coach being better than .500 would most likely garner an extension.

I have no issues with the bowl win bonus.

But, are automatic extensions really a good idea? What if there are some non winning record reasons to make a coaching change that are under investigation and it would be inappropriate to make an immediate decision about the coach? The coach could garner an automatic extension while investigations are ongoing and once a decision is made, you have already committed to the extension. Should bonuses be the only incentive? Not sure that I agree with automatic extensions, but that may just be the way the coaching business works.

Without reading the contract…cause I’m not doing all that…most of them have “for cause” sections where you can see why a coach can be fired and have the rest of his deal voided. So yeah he may earn an extension while being investigated- but then he could lose it all if the investigation determines he should be fired “with cause.”

(12-25-2023 10:43 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

What is the bar? 10-2? How many coaches has NIU fired after an above .500 season?

I do agree that a MACC Championship is worthy of an extension as it means a great regular season record plus a being a champion. I could even see an extension for just making the MACC as you would have at worst the second best record in MAC play plus most likely some tie breakers.

A 6-6 team win while playing a 6-6 team in a bowl is not extension worthy. The contract should read a winning regular season plus a bowl win meaning a most likely 8-5 season (7-5 regular season plus a bowl win) and this may be too low a bar. I say that as I believe a 9-3 season without going to the MACC is more difficult than going 6-6 and winning a bowl against a 6-6 team.


If there were to be automatic extensions, this is what I'd like to see:

1. Make the MACC
2. Regular season record of at least 8-4 with a MAC record of at least 5 wins
3. 7-5 season or better + bowl win resulting in an 8-5 season (this is probably the easiest path)

Remember this is for an automatic one year extension, not a normal renewal process of which an NIU coach being better than .500 would most likely garner an extension.

I have no issues with the bowl win bonus.

But, are automatic extensions really a good idea? What if there are some non winning record reasons to make a coaching change that are under investigation and it would be inappropriate to make an immediate decision about the coach? The coach could garner an automatic extension while investigations are ongoing and once a decision is made, you have already committed to the extension. Should bonuses be the only incentive? Not sure that I agree with automatic extensions, but that may just be the way the coaching business works.

I am pretty sure that Jason Candle earned another year for ten wins this season. I believe that is the only way he gets auto extensions? Winning Bowl Games would have added many more years for him, so I don't think that is one of the extenders in the contract? I believe he makes more for winning MACC and Bowl Games, but not extensions!

Did Carey have a clause where winning a bowl game got him an extension? Maybe his MACC wins got him an extension so it didn't matter. I think getting the bowl win after years of futility in that regard is important, but not on a go-forward basis - not as a 6-6 team playing in a bowl game against another 6-6 team.

(12-26-2023 08:30 AM)BigChilla Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 10:43 PM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  

(12-25-2023 03:36 PM)HuskieBowWow Wrote:  How low the bar has been lowered! All Hammock has to do is win 6 games plus a bowl game and he’s coach for life. What kind of AD rewards such mediocrity? In this case I shouldn’t be surprised.

What is the bar? 10-2? How many coaches has NIU fired after an above .500 season?

I do agree that a MACC Championship is worthy of an extension as it means a great regular season record plus a being a champion. I could even see an extension for just making the MACC as you would have at worst the second best record in MAC play plus most likely some tie breakers.

A 6-6 team win while playing a 6-6 team in a bowl is not extension worthy. The contract should read a winning regular season plus a bowl win meaning a most likely 8-5 season (7-5 regular season plus a bowl win) and this may be too low a bar. I say that as I believe a 9-3 season without going to the MACC is more difficult than going 6-6 and winning a bowl against a 6-6 team.


If there were to be automatic extensions, this is what I'd like to see:

1. Make the MACC
2. Regular season record of at least 8-4 with a MAC record of at least 5 wins
3. 7-5 season or better + bowl win resulting in an 8-5 season (this is probably the easiest path)

Remember this is for an automatic one year extension, not a normal renewal process of which an NIU coach being better than .500 would most likely garner an extension.

I have no issues with the bowl win bonus.

But, are automatic extensions really a good idea? What if there are some non winning record reasons to make a coaching change that are under investigation and it would be inappropriate to make an immediate decision about the coach? The coach could garner an automatic extension while investigations are ongoing and once a decision is made, you have already committed to the extension. Should bonuses be the only incentive? Not sure that I agree with automatic extensions, but that may just be the way the coaching business works.

Without reading the contract…cause I’m not doing all that…most of them have “for cause” sections where you can see why a coach can be fired and have the rest of his deal voided. So yeah he may earn an extension while being investigated- but then he could lose it all if the investigation determines he should be fired “with cause.”

That's a good/great standard.

Just get rid of Sean T. Frazier, and NIU athletics gets healthier from day 1.

I just find it preposterous that anyone thinks a coach is going to string together a bunch of 6-6 seasons with a bowl win year after year . I mean...is it technically possible? Sure but the chances of that are so low they are next to improbable. (it's not like we rolled over an inferior team on Saturday so it's not at all a given that playing another 6-6 team is an automatic win but it's also not impossible that we could have been in that same bowl as a 7-6 team and still beat Arkansas State)

And, I kind of get emphasizing the bowl wins as an incentive when it had been over a decade since the team won one and had lost multiple in a row...especially when bowl losses were a major complaint by the fanbase.

I mean...many here complain ad nauseam about all of these bowl losses and then complain when bowl victories are an incentive.

Ultimately though, I bet this is not an issue going forward and, more than likely, if you see a bowl victory in the same season as no MACC, the record for the team isn't going to be 6-6 (7-6 with the bowl win).

And...stating that the win threshold for an extension should be 8 instead of 7 seems a bit revisionist and after the fact. So, had they beat SIU then he's all of a sudden extension worthy? Because now the emphasis is on a game against an FCS school (since he already qualified for an extension based on 6 other wins and winning the bowl).

My guess is that bowl win provision was added because Hot Rod had done such a terrible job in the postseason that they wanted to incentivize the next coach to win in the postseason and not embarrass us like the last one.

Here is Hammocks accomplishments since 2019 compared to the other top MAC teams:

NIU WINS - 1 MACC, 1 DIV, 1 Bowl, 2 P5
TOL WINS - 1 MACC, 2 DIV, 1 Bowl, 0 P5
MIA WINS - 2 MACC, 2 DIV, 1 Bowl, 2 P5
OHI WINS - 0 MACC, 1 DIV, 3 Bowl, 1 P5
BSU WINS - 1 MACC, 1 DIV, 1 Bowl, 0 P5

Outside of Miami it's hard to say any other top MAC team has more accolades over the last 5 seasons. Of course conference wins are important but their biggest benefit is actually winning the division or conference.

(12-26-2023 01:56 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  My guess is that bowl win provision was added because Hot Rod had done such a terrible job in the postseason that they wanted to incentivize the next coach to win in the postseason and not embarrass us like the last one.

No disrespect, rewards for conference titles, bowl games, winning seasons, academic success, etc. have been a part of coaching contracts for well over a decade now. That bowl provision was "not added" but existed in Hammock's contract from the start and it was at least used as a criteria even for Carey; perhaps it was only a financial reward and winning equaled an extension (something he didn't do) for bowl games. Remember he chose to take another job, if he didn't, NIU wasn't going to fire him. Remember, he and Monty kept getting unannounced extensions. What is generally never made public, are there actual "dis-incentives" or penalties in a contract. That number of victories standard that factored into Iowa dismissing offensive coordinator Brian Ferentz is the first time something like that was known publicly going into a season.