(12-22-2023 12:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  This is embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is you not seeing how the ACC has screwed the big brands over for years. If you really listened to that, you have to be a real beta to take all that lying down and ask for more ...

Plus UNC will be next wave out the door. They are just too gutless to be the "bad guy'

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

It's called being smart. If FSU is able to negotiate a reasonable way out then UNC can explore it's options. Most people like you seem to forget that UNC would still need to appease the UNC System even if it were free to go. So no need to rock the boat until you at least know what it takes to leave. My guess is UNC abstains from any procedural votes involving this lawsuit

(12-22-2023 12:23 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  ESPN still hasn't exercised it after 2027?
Never saw that.
Could be a window to get out then?

That is shocking.

(12-22-2023 12:55 PM)nole Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:23 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  ESPN still hasn't exercised it after 2027?
Never saw that.
Could be a window to get out then?

That is shocking.

Thoughtful of them to dangle an opening like that in front of Tallahassee lawyers.

ACC countersues in N.C. There’s going to be lots of legal fees for both sides.

(12-21-2023 04:55 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Let’s say FSU did the first step: Legally challenge the GoR while staying in the ACC for now.

How would Phillips and the ACC leadership react? Will they take away FSU’s voting right, for example?

FSU has been openly discussing the possibility of leaving the league. Phillips must have prepared a contingency plan.

We got an answer.

(12-22-2023 12:34 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:27 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:23 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  ESPN still hasn't exercised it after 2027?
Never saw that.
Could be a window to get out then?

Definitely a blunder by the acc. You can't enforce media rights that haven't even been extended ...

I bet FSU is out in 2025

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

That would be 4yrs rights + exit fee?

I guarantee you FSU's lawyers will try to make that case. If the GoR is only worth 3 more years of T1 payments, plus 12 years worth of ACCN payments, tha's a LOT less money.
(3 X $26M) + (12 X $10M) = $78M + $120M = $198M
adding that to the exit fee, which is now est. = $130M
gives us a new, lower estimate of the exit cost: $328M
Still a lot, but every couple hundred million dollars makes a difference!

(12-22-2023 12:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  This is embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is you not seeing how the ACC has screwed the big brands over for years. If you really listened to that, you have to be a real beta to take all that lying down and ask for more ...

Plus UNC will be next wave out the door. They are just too gutless to be the "bad guy'

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, that meeting was one step above money grubbing lol

“We can’t run an athletic dept with a $40m/year media contract. It kept us out of the invitational.”

FSU signed a contract and when others made more money they got jealous/mad and are now suing. FSU is not a martyr, they made a dumb business decision (apparently) and don’t want any accountability. Man up and accept that, or are you a beta?

(12-22-2023 12:54 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  Let's put this in context: FSU chose the ACC over the SEC because they were drawn to the academic clout, basketball prowess, and perceived easier path to the title. BTW, even Penn State had some pretty formidable records early days in the Big Ten before settling in.

FSU has always been, and always will be a mercenary. We can't rewrite history, folks. They couldn't even get into the SoCon when the original core ACC split. This isn't a knock, it's just revealing the fact FSU is very behind in the game.

Be patient with esayem. He's dealing with a lot today.

Oh, was I sued? lol You seem to be targeting me all over the place out of nowhere today. What’s your deal?

Sorry I tell it like it is. Do you not know your history?

(12-22-2023 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  This is embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is you not seeing how the ACC has screwed the big brands over for years. If you really listened to that, you have to be a real beta to take all that lying down and ask for more ...

Plus UNC will be next wave out the door. They are just too gutless to be the "bad guy'

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, that meeting was one step above money grubbing lol

“We can’t run an athletic dept with a $40m/year media contract. It kept us out of the invitational.”

FSU signed a contract and when others made more money they got jealous/mad and are now suing. FSU is not a martyr, they made a dumb business decision (apparently) and don’t want any accountability. Man up and accept that, or are you a beta?

Will be fun to laugh at you when UNC is next. You guys ripped FSU in August as doing nothing. I knew all along stuff was happening behind the scenes. You won't get nearly what you think out of them either. Good riddance on leaving this pathetic conference soon.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

You can't rely on FSU's supposed statements of facts about the TV contract and the GOR. I notice that they often conflate the two. They claim for instance the ACC is tied to 2012 revenue rates when clearly this is false based on the form 990 returns.

Most of the time FSU is speaking they are leaving something important out or outright lying.

I don't doubt the extension of the GOR places no specific financial conditions on ESPN although how it could in that document is beyond me. FSU does not mention the ACCN - why is that? Does that pay too much money? I also thought they requested that if someone finds in their favor they be credited with a August 2023 notice of exit. That in itself seems like a notice of exit.

It will be interesting to see how FSU gets the case out of North Carolina and into the Fifth Circuit and out of the Fourth.

Personally I can't wait for them to be gone.

They belong more in the Big 12 anyway as many of those schools are their old playmates from the Metro and independent days.

Memories are short but under the 12 team playoff format the following ACC schools would have been in the playoff prior to FSU joining the ACC:

92 - NC State
91 - Clemson
90 - Georgia Tech and Clemson
89 - Clemson
88 - Clemson
87 - Clemson
86 - CLemson
85 - MD
84 - MD
83 - Clemson
82 - Clemson
81 - UNC and Clemson
80 - UNC
79 - UNC
78 - Clemson
77 - UNC
76 - MD
75 - MD
74 - NC State and MD
73 - NC State
72 - UNC

(12-22-2023 02:14 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  This is embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is you not seeing how the ACC has screwed the big brands over for years. If you really listened to that, you have to be a real beta to take all that lying down and ask for more ...

Plus UNC will be next wave out the door. They are just too gutless to be the "bad guy'

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, that meeting was one step above money grubbing lol

“We can’t run an athletic dept with a $40m/year media contract. It kept us out of the invitational.”

FSU signed a contract and when others made more money they got jealous/mad and are now suing. FSU is not a martyr, they made a dumb business decision (apparently) and don’t want any accountability. Man up and accept that, or are you a beta?

Will be fun to laugh at you when UNC is next. You guys ripped FSU in August as doing nothing. I knew all along stuff was happening behind the scenes. You won't get nearly what you think out of them either. Good riddance on leaving this pathetic conference soon.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Oooo look at you knowing stuff. Why you so mad?

(12-22-2023 03:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:14 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  This is embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is you not seeing how the ACC has screwed the big brands over for years. If you really listened to that, you have to be a real beta to take all that lying down and ask for more ...

Plus UNC will be next wave out the door. They are just too gutless to be the "bad guy'

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, that meeting was one step above money grubbing lol

“We can’t run an athletic dept with a $40m/year media contract. It kept us out of the invitational.”

FSU signed a contract and when others made more money they got jealous/mad and are now suing. FSU is not a martyr, they made a dumb business decision (apparently) and don’t want any accountability. Man up and accept that, or are you a beta?

Will be fun to laugh at you when UNC is next. You guys ripped FSU in August as doing nothing. I knew all along stuff was happening behind the scenes. You won't get nearly what you think out of them either. Good riddance on leaving this pathetic conference soon.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Oooo look at you knowing stuff. Why you so mad?

Not mad. Just laughing at you UNC guys who are so elitist with the acc that you can't see how they have hurt you. But you'll be out soon too. Then youll all backtrack

Won't be ruling over others anymore though. UNC will be just another middle of the road school for the power teams to beat

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(12-22-2023 07:23 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Even today they forget that most years FSU played only 3-4 BIG games and that the remainder were against average and below average teams.

Even SEC teams only play 3-4 "big" games a year (if that). Come off this drivel.

(12-22-2023 07:51 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:20 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  Another solid, informative article from Brett McMurphy:

https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/flor...eaving-acc

Have to love it when McMurphy writes stuff like "the ACC’s supposedly ironclad Grant of Rights", when the ACC GoR is modeled after the Big XII GoR! If there's a way out of the ACC, it also works for the Big XII!

Personally, I don't think FSU has found an "escape hatch", as he put it. That would spell doom for the ACC - assuming the Big Ten actually wants enough teams. I just think FSU has reached the point where they're willing to take out a $400 million loan.

McMurphy also claims that all exit fees are negotiated down to 60% of face value. That's patently FALSE. Texas and OU certainly paid more than 60%, and WVU paid more than 100%, IIRC.

The OP also quotes Alford, when he told his board in February that “hypothetically” it was possible for Florida State to break even within four years of leaving the ACC. That appears to assume that FSU pays nothing to get out of the GoR (because $120M / $30M = 4). This is a very unlikely outcome.

The most likely outcome, IMO, is for FSU to pay about $30M/year over the lifetime of the GoR. If they (or, more likely, the ACC) want to pay in one lump sum, it's about $480M - not adjusted for the time value of money. The present worth value (assuming 6% interest) is only $251.5M for the GoR (the $120M is already present value), so an acceptable total up front payment would be $251.5M + $120M = $371.5M. That's not a settlement - that's just the present value of a series of future payments (if you invest that money now at 6% interest, it's worth the same as the series of payments would be).

But it's not patently false. Texas and Oklahoma were supposed to pay 2 years of conference distributions as an exit fee plus ? for a one-year break of the GOR. So, $80 million in exit fees plus ?. Probably should have been a minimum of $100 million there, which they got out for $50 million.

(12-22-2023 02:51 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Memories are short but under the 12 team playoff format the following ACC schools would have been in the playoff prior to FSU joining the ACC:

92 - NC State
91 - Clemson
90 - Georgia Tech and Clemson
89 - Clemson
88 - Clemson
87 - Clemson
86 - CLemson
85 - MD
84 - MD
83 - Clemson
82 - Clemson
81 - UNC and Clemson
80 - UNC
79 - UNC
78 - Clemson
77 - UNC
76 - MD
75 - MD
74 - NC State and MD
73 - NC State
72 - UNC

Number of weeks ACC teams were ranked in AP Top 5 since FSU joined in 1992.
Duke 0.
Wake 0.
NC State 0.
Virginia 0.
Ga Tech 0.
*Syracuse 0.
*Pitt 0.
*Boston College 4.
*Miami 5.
*Louisville 6.
North Carolina 7.
*VT 14.
Clemson 107.
FSU 190.

*Since joining ACC

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(12-22-2023 04:25 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 07:51 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:20 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  Another solid, informative article from Brett McMurphy:

https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/flor...eaving-acc

Have to love it when McMurphy writes stuff like "the ACC’s supposedly ironclad Grant of Rights", when the ACC GoR is modeled after the Big XII GoR! If there's a way out of the ACC, it also works for the Big XII!

Personally, I don't think FSU has found an "escape hatch", as he put it. That would spell doom for the ACC - assuming the Big Ten actually wants enough teams. I just think FSU has reached the point where they're willing to take out a $400 million loan.

McMurphy also claims that all exit fees are negotiated down to 60% of face value. That's patently FALSE. Texas and OU certainly paid more than 60%, and WVU paid more than 100%, IIRC.

The OP also quotes Alford, when he told his board in February that “hypothetically” it was possible for Florida State to break even within four years of leaving the ACC. That appears to assume that FSU pays nothing to get out of the GoR (because $120M / $30M = 4). This is a very unlikely outcome.

The most likely outcome, IMO, is for FSU to pay about $30M/year over the lifetime of the GoR. If they (or, more likely, the ACC) want to pay in one lump sum, it's about $480M - not adjusted for the time value of money. The present worth value (assuming 6% interest) is only $251.5M for the GoR (the $120M is already present value), so an acceptable total up front payment would be $251.5M + $120M = $371.5M. That's not a settlement - that's just the present value of a series of future payments (if you invest that money now at 6% interest, it's worth the same as the series of payments would be).

But it's not patently false. Texas and Oklahoma were supposed to pay 2 years of conference distributions as an exit fee plus ? for a one-year break of the GOR. So, $80 million in exit fees plus ?. Probably should have been a minimum of $100 million there, which they got out for $50 million.

OUT was settled amicably. When speaking about their departures, OUT repeatedly confirmed that they would fully comply with their commitments…including the GORs. They announced their departures and let the B12 develop solutions. When ESPN couldn’t afford the B1G media contract and the 10-team PAC asked for $50M, the B12 jumped at the golden opportunity to partner with ESPN. ESPN then structured the B12 media deal extension in a manner that would encourage the B12 to allow OUT to leave early (because they could better monetize OUT in the SEC). OUT leaving was horrible for the B12, but ESPN gave the B12 the compensation that OUT saved.

Maybe ESPN or another media provider will give the ACC extra money. I’m not optimistic that FSU’s approach is comparable to OUT.

Good chance every FSU basketball player will be fouling out during every Acc conference game this year.

(12-22-2023 06:13 PM)mike012779 Wrote:  Good chance every FSU basketball player will be fouling out during every Acc conference game this year.

FSU is terrible in basketball this year, it would be an act of mercy to sit on the bench with a towel over your head.

(12-22-2023 03:59 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 03:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:14 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 02:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 12:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  What's embarrassing is you not seeing how the ACC has screwed the big brands over for years. If you really listened to that, you have to be a real beta to take all that lying down and ask for more ...

Plus UNC will be next wave out the door. They are just too gutless to be the "bad guy'

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, that meeting was one step above money grubbing lol

“We can’t run an athletic dept with a $40m/year media contract. It kept us out of the invitational.”

FSU signed a contract and when others made more money they got jealous/mad and are now suing. FSU is not a martyr, they made a dumb business decision (apparently) and don’t want any accountability. Man up and accept that, or are you a beta?

Will be fun to laugh at you when UNC is next. You guys ripped FSU in August as doing nothing. I knew all along stuff was happening behind the scenes. You won't get nearly what you think out of them either. Good riddance on leaving this pathetic conference soon.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Oooo look at you knowing stuff. Why you so mad?

Not mad. Just laughing at you UNC guys who are so elitist with the acc that you can't see how they have hurt you. But you'll be out soon too. Then youll all backtrack

Won't be ruling over others anymore though. UNC will be just another middle of the road school for the power teams to beat

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The conference hasn’t hurt Carolina at all. And for the record, I will be sad to see FSU go—especially in such a petty manner. The whole “we got duped” argument is a flat out lie. It’s pathetic. Lawsuit to lawsuit I guess.

FSU basketball will be missed by me for one. Players like Bobby Sura and recently Kabengele. I really like Len Hamilton. I’m sorry it’s come to this, but FSU has to do their own thing. I just wish they would have done it honorably instead of blaming everyone but themselves.