(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 06:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Some youtubers think that if it can be proved that ESPN conspired with the CFB playoff committee that it could be the catalyst for FSU to exit the ACC. I (my thoughts only) hope instead that it gives the entire ACC a way out from under ESPN for acting detrimental to the conference's interest and the ACC can go out to the free market.

Perhaps someone in the know can let us know if these scenarios are possible.

It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Are you suggesting that those reporters and announcers should have been touting the ACC's Florida State over the SEC's Alabama because they have a stronger obligation to promote the ACC than they do to promote the SEC? Should they do that (tout FSU) even if their professional judgement is that Alabama was the better qualified team? Because it isn't realistic to expect that they would stay silent (that is to say, neutral) on what was the biggest sports story that day. They had to address it, one way or the other.

(12-14-2023 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 06:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Some youtubers think that if it can be proved that ESPN conspired with the CFB playoff committee that it could be the catalyst for FSU to exit the ACC. I (my thoughts only) hope instead that it gives the entire ACC a way out from under ESPN for acting detrimental to the conference's interest and the ACC can go out to the free market.

Perhaps someone in the know can let us know if these scenarios are possible.

It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Are you suggesting that those reporters and announcers should have been touting the ACC's Florida State over the SEC's Alabama because they have a stronger obligation to promote the ACC than they do to promote the SEC? Should they do that (tout FSU) even if their professional judgement is that Alabama was the better qualified team? Because it isn't realistic to expect that they would stay silent (that is to say, neutral) on what was the biggest sports story that day. They had to address it, one way or the other.

You completely missed the point. ESPN has an inherent conflict. ESPN pays for the CFP, so their program hosts & reporters should be held to some standards of impartiality. They unintentionally (or intentionally) can bias selections when advocating at critical times. If you ever watch their Game Day broadcast, it’s obvious that hosts don’t predict games; and even color commentators for a game won’t predict the games that they are broadcasting. I guess I’m old enough to remember the standards set by folks like Walter Cronkite or David Brinkley.

Football analysts (e.g. Paul Finebaum or Booger McFarland) are generally given short windows to express “controversial” opinions.

ESPN failed badly during the weekend CFP selection. They should not have allowed key personnel to advocate for Alabama. Maybe these hosts and reporters honestly felt that Alabama was better, or maybe they’re just worried about their jobs if the CFP turns into a rout. Regardless, ESPN doesn’t have the diversity to even understand their biases.

(12-14-2023 01:47 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 06:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Some youtubers think that if it can be proved that ESPN conspired with the CFB playoff committee that it could be the catalyst for FSU to exit the ACC. I (my thoughts only) hope instead that it gives the entire ACC a way out from under ESPN for acting detrimental to the conference's interest and the ACC can go out to the free market.

Perhaps someone in the know can let us know if these scenarios are possible.

It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Are you suggesting that those reporters and announcers should have been touting the ACC's Florida State over the SEC's Alabama because they have a stronger obligation to promote the ACC than they do to promote the SEC? Should they do that (tout FSU) even if their professional judgement is that Alabama was the better qualified team? Because it isn't realistic to expect that they would stay silent (that is to say, neutral) on what was the biggest sports story that day. They had to address it, one way or the other.

You completely missed the point. ESPN has an inherent conflict. ESPN pays for the CFP, so their program hosts & reporters should be held to some standards of impartiality. They unintentionally (or intentionally) can bias selections when advocating at critical times. If you ever watch their Game Day broadcast, it’s obvious that hosts don’t predict games; and even color commentators for a game won’t predict the games that they are broadcasting. I guess I’m old enough to remember the standards set by folks like Walter Cronkite or David Brinkley.

Football analysts (e.g. Paul Finebaum or Booger McFarland) are generally given short windows to express “controversial” opinions.

ESPN failed badly during the weekend CFP selection. They should not have allowed key personnel to advocate for Alabama. Maybe these hosts and reporters honestly felt that Alabama was better, or maybe they’re just worried about their jobs if the CFP turns into a rout. Regardless, ESPN doesn’t have the diversity to even understand their biases.

What point did I miss? I believe I expressly disagreed with your premise that commentators have an obligation to stay silent on the question of what voters may or may not decide in secret. This isn't like predicting the outcome of a sporting event that large amounts of money are wagered on. Expressing opinions is exactly what these people are paid to do.

ESPN is in the business to make money. They are not in the truth telling business. They are promoters just like P. T. Barnum. They are pimps.

This is what the American Constitution supports and was meant to support - enterprise - making money.

Somewhere along the way Sunday School or Elementary School poured too much gee whiz and Horatio Alger into the minds of young Americans.

I understand that people want our society to be different than it is - to be more honest, more altruistic, more transparent, but America is about making money. DeTocceville noted this when he came here to study us in the 1830's. We have not changed.

(12-14-2023 02:47 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  ESPN is in the business to make money. They are not in the truth telling business. They are promoters just like P. T. Barnum. They are pimps.

This is what the American Constitution supports and was meant to support - enterprise - making money.

Somewhere along the way Sunday School or Elementary School poured too much gee whiz and Horatio Alger into the minds of young Americans.

I understand that people want our society to be different than it is - to be more honest, more altruistic, more transparent, but America is about making money. DeTocceville noted this when he came here to study us in the 1830's. We have not changed.

So you're saying the US Consitution > the Holy Bible, and money > morals. Got it.

That said, I don't this any of it is relevant to what Wahoowa posted.

(12-14-2023 12:12 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 06:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Some youtubers think that if it can be proved that ESPN conspired with the CFB playoff committee that it could be the catalyst for FSU to exit the ACC. I (my thoughts only) hope instead that it gives the entire ACC a way out from under ESPN for acting detrimental to the conference's interest and the ACC can go out to the free market.

Perhaps someone in the know can let us know if these scenarios are possible.

It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Agree with your last 2 counts, but on the issue of lawsuit, I wouldn't be suing for money - I'd be suing to get some media rights back (so the ACC can resell them). Not sure if a judge would rule that way, but that's what I would want as the outcome.

Who would re-buy them for more than what ESPN is paying? You know CBS, NBC and Fox are taken up with B1G and ND broadcasts. If you screw ESPN they're not going to re-hire you for more on ABC/ESPN. So you think this new money is coming from Apple, Amazon, CW?

I like our current set up better. The ACC network has been a dream come true. Now I get to see all the ACC games, not just the ones in my RSN area. I get to see VT women's basketball, baseball, softball, and Wrestling. All of which is on ACCN+.

Let's not forget the ACC took less to begin with so that all of their sports would be broadcast at least on the internet where ACC fans could watch them.

(12-14-2023 02:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 01:47 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Are you suggesting that those reporters and announcers should have been touting the ACC's Florida State over the SEC's Alabama because they have a stronger obligation to promote the ACC than they do to promote the SEC? Should they do that (tout FSU) even if their professional judgement is that Alabama was the better qualified team? Because it isn't realistic to expect that they would stay silent (that is to say, neutral) on what was the biggest sports story that day. They had to address it, one way or the other.

You completely missed the point. ESPN has an inherent conflict. ESPN pays for the CFP, so their program hosts & reporters should be held to some standards of impartiality. They unintentionally (or intentionally) can bias selections when advocating at critical times. If you ever watch their Game Day broadcast, it’s obvious that hosts don’t predict games; and even color commentators for a game won’t predict the games that they are broadcasting. I guess I’m old enough to remember the standards set by folks like Walter Cronkite or David Brinkley.

Football analysts (e.g. Paul Finebaum or Booger McFarland) are generally given short windows to express “controversial” opinions.

ESPN failed badly during the weekend CFP selection. They should not have allowed key personnel to advocate for Alabama. Maybe these hosts and reporters honestly felt that Alabama was better, or maybe they’re just worried about their jobs if the CFP turns into a rout. Regardless, ESPN doesn’t have the diversity to even understand their biases.

What point did I miss? I believe I expressly disagreed with your premise that commentators have an obligation to stay silent on the question of what voters may or may not decide in secret. This isn't like predicting the outcome of a sporting event that large amounts of money are wagered on. Expressing opinions is exactly what these people are paid to do.

I don't think Wahoowa is saying ESPN shouldn't say anything at all, but they do have a contract with the ACC which requires that they carry out that contract in "good faith". Tearing down the ACC to prop up the SEC is NOT in good faith. Back to the rental car analogy: it would be like renting my car, then taking parts off of it to fix your car. NOT acceptable!

(12-14-2023 03:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 02:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 01:47 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Are you suggesting that those reporters and announcers should have been touting the ACC's Florida State over the SEC's Alabama because they have a stronger obligation to promote the ACC than they do to promote the SEC? Should they do that (tout FSU) even if their professional judgement is that Alabama was the better qualified team? Because it isn't realistic to expect that they would stay silent (that is to say, neutral) on what was the biggest sports story that day. They had to address it, one way or the other.

You completely missed the point. ESPN has an inherent conflict. ESPN pays for the CFP, so their program hosts & reporters should be held to some standards of impartiality. They unintentionally (or intentionally) can bias selections when advocating at critical times. If you ever watch their Game Day broadcast, it’s obvious that hosts don’t predict games; and even color commentators for a game won’t predict the games that they are broadcasting. I guess I’m old enough to remember the standards set by folks like Walter Cronkite or David Brinkley.

Football analysts (e.g. Paul Finebaum or Booger McFarland) are generally given short windows to express “controversial” opinions.

ESPN failed badly during the weekend CFP selection. They should not have allowed key personnel to advocate for Alabama. Maybe these hosts and reporters honestly felt that Alabama was better, or maybe they’re just worried about their jobs if the CFP turns into a rout. Regardless, ESPN doesn’t have the diversity to even understand their biases.

What point did I miss? I believe I expressly disagreed with your premise that commentators have an obligation to stay silent on the question of what voters may or may not decide in secret. This isn't like predicting the outcome of a sporting event that large amounts of money are wagered on. Expressing opinions is exactly what these people are paid to do.

I don't think Wahoowa is saying ESPN shouldn't say anything at all, but they do have a contract with the ACC which requires that they carry out that contract in "good faith". Tearing down the ACC to prop up the SEC is NOT in good faith. Back to the rental car analogy: it would be like renting my car, then taking parts off of it to fix your car. NOT acceptable!

And commentators expressing a professional opinion that one football team - Alabama - is a better team than another football team -FSU - is decidedly NOT tearing down one conference to prop up another. The contracts ESPN has with the ACC do not say that they should take the ACC's side over the SEC or anybody else. Nor should they.

Those analysts were doing nothing unethical, immoral, or in bad faith. At least as many non-ESPN analysts agreed with them as disagreed. The committee's decision was as close to a toss-up as we are likely to see, despite the fact that oddsmakers have made FSU a two touchdown underdog against the team Alabama beat. I'm fairly sure that the SEC contracts imply a similar obligation to act in good faith as their ACC contracts. If the commentators believed Alabama was the better team, would it be "good faith" to argue otherwise in order to prop up the ACC at the SEC's expense?

Well anyway...the Florida AG is investigating the matter so we’ll see if they turn up any evidence of foul play.

(12-14-2023 02:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 01:47 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 12:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Suing ESPN isn’t going to help. Media is under intense financial pressures. A lawsuit hurts both parties…it destroys value and trust.

But Phillips, coaches, ADs and ACC presidents do need to pressure ESPN for better treatment. It was over-the-top bias to have so many ESPN reporters and announcers (Heather Dinich, Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstriet, Reece Davis, Joey Galloway, etc.) expressing their support and expectation of Alabama prior to the selection. These are the personalities that get the most airtime and attention. They’re using their influence to advocate.

It’s odd that ESPN has studios in Charlotte as a hub for college sports, yet the ACCN is managed out of Connecticut. It’s like ESPN wants to pigeonhole the ACC as a basketball entity and is afraid of allowing ACC-friendly announcers into the football sphere.

Are you suggesting that those reporters and announcers should have been touting the ACC's Florida State over the SEC's Alabama because they have a stronger obligation to promote the ACC than they do to promote the SEC? Should they do that (tout FSU) even if their professional judgement is that Alabama was the better qualified team? Because it isn't realistic to expect that they would stay silent (that is to say, neutral) on what was the biggest sports story that day. They had to address it, one way or the other.

You completely missed the point. ESPN has an inherent conflict. ESPN pays for the CFP, so their program hosts & reporters should be held to some standards of impartiality. They unintentionally (or intentionally) can bias selections when advocating at critical times. If you ever watch their Game Day broadcast, it’s obvious that hosts don’t predict games; and even color commentators for a game won’t predict the games that they are broadcasting. I guess I’m old enough to remember the standards set by folks like Walter Cronkite or David Brinkley.

Football analysts (e.g. Paul Finebaum or Booger McFarland) are generally given short windows to express “controversial” opinions.

ESPN failed badly during the weekend CFP selection. They should not have allowed key personnel to advocate for Alabama. Maybe these hosts and reporters honestly felt that Alabama was better, or maybe they’re just worried about their jobs if the CFP turns into a rout. Regardless, ESPN doesn’t have the diversity to even understand their biases.

What point did I miss? I believe I expressly disagreed with your premise that commentators have an obligation to stay silent on the question of what voters may or may not decide in secret. This isn't like predicting the outcome of a sporting event that large amounts of money are wagered on. Expressing opinions is exactly what these people are paid to do.

Suggesting that ESPN talking heads are all mere commentators is naive. ESPN paid billions for exclusivity to the CFP. At the end of Boo Corrigan’s interview with Reece Davis after the selection announcement, his closing statement was something like “Reece, thank you for all you do for college football”…that’s a statement that you make to Marlon Brando’s godfather, not to a commentator, much less the host of a program. The CFP selection spokesperson’s first public statements after announcing the final four team were on ESPN…because ESPN paid for the exclusivity of the CFP. ESPN needs to make money of its investment.

(12-14-2023 07:10 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 06:53 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 10:48 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 06:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Some youtubers think that if it can be proved that ESPN conspired with the CFB playoff committee that it could be the catalyst for FSU to exit the ACC. I (my thoughts only) hope instead that it gives the entire ACC a way out from under ESPN for acting detrimental to the conference's interest and the ACC can go out to the free market.

Perhaps someone in the know can let us know if these scenarios are possible.

It's about "good faith"
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2023/...-case.html

Good read. In my view, the ACC has agreed to rent out their car (media rights) for a period of time. The understanding is that the borrower (ESPN) wouid take care of it. I don’t think ESPN has lived up to expectations. The ACC entered the contract on equal footing as the other BCS/P5 conferences, but under their care the ACC is firmly behind the SEC in promotion, in other words the ACC has been deregulated or damaged.

You could also argue that the ACC has not lived up to its end of the deal by not producing a product on the field that draws what the SEC and B1G do. ESPN can only do so much with promotions and marketing. ACC teams other than FSU and Clemson just don't draw the eyeballs.

Slight quibble, but UNC, Duke, & Louisville draw eyeballs in basketball, or so I thought...

Georgia senator getting in on it

(12-14-2023 03:01 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 02:47 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  ESPN is in the business to make money. They are not in the truth telling business. They are promoters just like P. T. Barnum. They are pimps.

This is what the American Constitution supports and was meant to support - enterprise - making money.

Somewhere along the way Sunday School or Elementary School poured too much gee whiz and Horatio Alger into the minds of young Americans.

I understand that people want our society to be different than it is - to be more honest, more altruistic, more transparent, but America is about making money. DeTocceville noted this when he came here to study us in the 1830's. We have not changed.

So you're saying the US Consitution > the Holy Bible, and money > morals. Got it.

That said, I don't this any of it is relevant to what Wahoowa posted.

Actually, I don't think that is what he is saying. FYI, the US Constitution borrowed concepts from the Holy Bible. So the Holy Bible >the US Constitution.

What is he referring to is the Polyanna attitude that has been exhibited and shown by many millenials today. SouthernConfBoy and myself are Gen X-pull yourselves up by the bootstraps type, and yes, sometimes bad things do happen to good people. It's what makes you stronger in the long run, IMO.

(12-14-2023 07:53 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia senator getting in on it
Link
https://twitter.com/realColtonMoore/stat...0233516289

Oh no!!! Where's a facepalm meme when I need one???

(12-14-2023 07:53 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Georgia senator getting in on it
Link
https://twitter.com/realColtonMoore/stat...0233516289

Going to bat for GT, bold move.

https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...tt-senator

The CFB Playoff committee responds to a letter sent by Florida Senator Rick Scott. It’s nothing new that they we have not heard already, they are sticking to their story.