(08-21-2023 12:08 PM)Rice93 Wrote: (08-21-2023 10:13 AM)Hambone10 Wrote: (08-18-2023 10:40 PM)Rice93 Wrote: For me, it is not so much about whether Juneteenth deserves to be a national holiday or not.
For me, it is Ramaswamy’s decision to use this sort of language. Exactly who is he appealing to here? Not exactly shining city on the hill stuff.
I think it’s kind of gross that he is pandering like this in front of an all-white audience in Iowa. His more public comments on the topic of Juneteenth were not nearly so inflammatory.
Oh good lord.... so now NOT pandering to blacks is somehow pandering to whites? Talk about racist.
Racist? Huh?
I have seen two references to Juneteenth from VR. There may be more for all I know.
The first was a video that he posted on Juneteenth presumably on a social media platform. It said something to the effect of "Happy Juneteenth. Let's remember to use the day to celebrate but not to flog ourselves for past sins.". This was directed to the general population.
The 2nd was the Iowa speech which (if you believe what I read) was to an all-white audience and that's when he called Juneteenth "useless".
The fact that he used MUCH harsher language to the one audience is a potential problem. Like I said before, it was an unnecessary own-goal. Again, I can understand how some people can view this as a racist dog-whistle.
Why do this?
I've said before that I like a lot of what VR has to say. I'm not all-in on him at this point due to the question as to whether he's just "all anti-woke all the time" or can he think beyond that when it comes to running the country. I also hesitate based on his love affair with DJT.
My comment was intentionally bombastic, but I did not intend to imply that you were personally engaging in racism. I apologize if it appeared otherwise. I do think you were engaging in racial language, not racist... but many will hear the former as being the latter (when it suits them)
When I spoke of inclusiveness, I hadn't heard his comment about 'not flogging ourselves'... as an Indian -American his ancestors of curse had nothing to do with slavery in the US... and his family is nor 'European white' so he really has no place to feel responsible... yet he still speaks about 'us'... so he is doing precisely what I'm talking about in terms of inclusivity. Juneteenth is mostly a celebration for one race, unless we somehow MAKE it a celebration for us all. Cinco de Mayo can be the same, but beer and tequila companies have made it about inclusivity and culture, not race.... So he's trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Not in any way disparaging the black experience; just trying to make a federal holiday an inclusive, not exclusive one. This (abolishing slavery) was a win for ALL people.
A Federal Holiday that divides us is ABSOLUTELY a useless holiday. The fact that he's trying to make sure that the conversation doesn't do that (especially in that he doesn't control the current narrative, nor is it worth the inevitable charges of 'racism' should he try and get rid of useless holidays) doesn't make it any less useless.
Memorial day celebrates those who died for this nation. That's inclusive...
Veteran's day is similarly inclusive. Honoring those who put themselves on the line for this nation
Independence day is for all Americans.
Thanksgiving is supposed to be that, as is Columbus, though it has been feathered (no pun intended) with 'indigenous people's day' due to the reality of the situation.
Same with Washington's birthday, which is now President's day... Trying to make it more inclusive
New Years is inclusive
Christmas was religious, but is now in many ways non-denominational... though it is still perhaps the most exclusive holiday (next to Juneteenth) if you don't do it right.
MLK's Birthday has been turned more inclusive, but was originally much of what THIS is celebrating.
Federal holidays should be as inclusive as possible... so when you say that 'talking down' (my word, along with others to follow in quotes) Juneteenth as being 'made up' to an 'all white' audience, you really ARE engaging in exclusivity... especially when you recognize that the same person has gone uot of his way to make it be as inclusive as possible.... It's just not easy... and that is what makes it 'not good'.
If we want to create more holidays, I'd more favor January for the Emancipation proclamation... but we already have one there and June is a good time... so I'd more celebrate the 14th amendment... along with the local tradition of Juneteenth, which also was signed by congress in June.... and ratified in July (different year)... and women's suffrage was also signed in early June... so maybe we make this new june holiday or independence day mean more than just 'independence from the UK', but also independence from slavery, independence from male dominant rule or what have you?? Lots of ways to go there to make these holidays more inclusive.
People all over the country celebrate St Patrick's day... most people aren't Irish... and what is being celebrated has zero connection to us here... Same with Cinco de Mayo... Juneteenth is closer to home, especially for Texans... but its still not the national event that the 14th amendment or the EP is....
Labor day is completely made up. The date best I can tell doesn't have any significance whatsoever to anything.
