(08-09-2023 11:01 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  If my understanding is right, if Wazzu and Oregon State join a conference they don't get the massive exit fees that the exodus from the Pac generated.

So if you're these two schools you can either use that money to take who you want from the MWC and AAC or you can go join the watered-down AAC.

If my understanding of the finances there are right it's an easy choice.

Supposedly there is no exit fee since there is no media deal. I’ve read where the remaining 4 may try to litigate a fee but not sure if that’s true.

(08-09-2023 11:01 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  If my understanding is right, if Wazzu and Oregon State join a conference they don't get the massive exit fees that the exodus from the Pac generated.

So if you're these two schools you can either use that money to take who you want from the MWC and AAC or you can go join the watered-down AAC.

If my understanding of the finances there are right it's an easy choice.

There are no Pac 12 exit fees because the one they currently have, like most others, is based their media contract. The media contract runs out this year and a new one wasn’t approved, so everyone leaving is off the hook.

What the Pac does have going forward should it continue to exist is a ton of basketball credits, playoff disbursements, etc. Should the conference dissolve, all that just goes “poof.”

That Beaver guy’s notion that WSU & OSU could somehow carry the “war chest” to another conference is ridiculous.

(08-09-2023 11:21 AM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 11:01 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  If my understanding is right, if Wazzu and Oregon State join a conference they don't get the massive exit fees that the exodus from the Pac generated.

So if you're these two schools you can either use that money to take who you want from the MWC and AAC or you can go join the watered-down AAC.

If my understanding of the finances there are right it's an easy choice.

There are no Pac 12 exit fees because the one they currently have, like most others, is based their media contract. The media contract runs out this year and a new one wasn’t approved, so everyone leaving is off the hook.

What the Pac does have going forward should it continue to exist is a ton of basketball credits, playoff disbursements, etc. Should the conference dissolve, all that just goes “poof.”

That Beaver guy’s notion that WSU & OSU could somehow carry the “war chest” to another conference is ridiculous.

PAC also owes Comcast $50 mill in over payments.

Pac-12 Network Must Pay Comcast $50 Million Dollar After Fiasco

https://cordcuttersnews.com/pac-12-netwo...er-fiasco/

Doesn't make sense to me. Stanford and Cal will never do it. Maybe the other two but MWC makes way more logical sense. Though logic is out the window on this. Washington State has a ton of debt but no G5 media deal will help them. They (and Cal) have some major debt that could really screw them.


Edit: Oregon St die a lot of construction lately and might have major debt too.

(08-09-2023 12:02 PM)slycat Wrote:  Doesn't make sense to me. Stanford and Cal will never do it. Maybe the other two but MWC makes way more logical sense. Though logic is out the window on this. Washington State has a ton of debt but no G5 media deal will help them. They (and Cal) have some major debt that could really screw them.


Edit: Oregon St die a lot of construction lately and might have major debt too.

Apparently Oregon State will have $25 million annually coming due for their stadium enhancements. This is going to be rough.

Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC? Both AD's talked about losing regional rivalries and the impact on fans and players last week. The MWC would give them all of that and TV money would be similar in each league.

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC? Both AD's talked about losing regional rivalries and the impact on fans and players last week. The MWC would give them all of that and TV money would be similar in each league.

Why did La Tech choose the WAC and stay in the WAC over joining the SBC? Egos are a powerful thing. Do they want to accept being an “equal” to programs like Boise/Wyoming/the rest of the MWC they have viewed as beneath them forever? I agree it’s the correct decision and one that makes sense from a regional and “fit” perspective on paper, but that’s a crazy bitter pill that they might not be willing to swallow.

(08-09-2023 06:40 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC? Both AD's talked about losing regional rivalries and the impact on fans and players last week. The MWC would give them all of that and TV money would be similar in each league.

Why did La Tech choose the WAC and stay in the WAC over joining the SBC? Egos are a powerful thing. Do they want to accept being an “equal” to programs like Boise/Wyoming/the rest of the MWC they have viewed as beneath them forever? I agree it’s the correct decision and one that makes sense from a regional and “fit” perspective on paper, but that’s a crazy bitter pill that they might not be willing to swallow.

I get that, but it’s not like USF, ECU, SMU and Tulane are much, if any better programs than Boise, Wyoming, UNLV, SDSU. And their fans would probably be more intrigued by playing those teams. It just doesn’t make any sense. So it probably happens.

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC? Both AD's talked about losing regional rivalries and the impact on fans and players last week. The MWC would give them all of that and TV money would be similar in each league.

I don't see any pros to having two random teams on the West Coast for a East Coast G5 conference. They need to do the right thing and join the MWC. Their bases have suffered enough.

(08-09-2023 08:06 PM)TealNation Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC? Both AD's talked about losing regional rivalries and the impact on fans and players last week. The MWC would give them all of that and TV money would be similar in each league.

I don't see any pros to having two random teams on the West Coast for a East Coast G5 conference. They need to do the right thing and join the MWC. Their bases have suffered enough.

Plus, SMU appears to be on deck for the ACC. Probably the worst thing that can happen to the ACC if they want to reel in Oregon State and Wazzu.

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC?

- AAC teams almost get paid double than MWC programs.

- AAC has a much better linear deal with ESPN than MWC.

- AAC deal has built in clause that when adding teams $ will be renegotiated, in this case made higher.

- PAC 4 has no deal and the best they could get, caused everyone to leave. AKA Apple TV.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for the highest paying conference they could get an invite too.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for a conference not focused in the west and has a national footprint.

I'm not saying they will do it but I think it's a very intriguing idea that will definitely be discussed.

(08-10-2023 03:33 AM)grapes Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC?

- AAC teams almost get paid double than MWC programs.

- AAC has a much better linear deal with ESPN than MWC.

- AAC deal has built in clause that when adding teams $ will be renegotiated, in this case made higher.

- PAC 4 has no deal and the best they could get, caused everyone to leave. AKA Apple TV.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for the highest paying conference they could get an invite too.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for a conference not focused in the west and has a national footprint.

I'm not saying they will do it but I think it's a very intriguing idea that will definitely be discussed.

I'd say these are points that have to be considered. Plus, while the tippy-top brands have moved on, there's still potentially more "buzz" for the AAC than the MWC, and those two schools are going to do everything in their power to maintain the highest possible appearance of relevance. In no way do I think it's an ideal situation for the American or OSU/WSU, but the way things have played out in this round of realignment makes that marriage seem like at least a 50/50 chance at this point.

(08-10-2023 03:33 AM)grapes Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC?

- AAC teams almost get paid double than MWC programs.

- AAC has a much better linear deal with ESPN than MWC.

- AAC deal has built in clause that when adding teams $ will be renegotiated, in this case made higher.

- PAC 4 has no deal and the best they could get, caused everyone to leave. AKA Apple TV.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for the highest paying conference they could get an invite too.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for a conference not focused in the west and has a national footprint.

I'm not saying they will do it but I think it's a very intriguing idea that will definitely be discussed.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer on you, but I think there is one factor that is not being thought about.

The AAC deal pays legacy members $7 million/yr now, but they are only being kept whole through the life of the current media contract. The CUSA6 members are starting at half price and then working up to full shares, which I would assume that some of the exit money from UCF,
Cincy, and Houston is helping supplement. It is a very real possibility that the AAC takes a haircut on the next media deal.

The MWC doesn't have that problem. They have not lost any members and the additions of Oregon State and Washington State would probably bump their next media deal higher than the current $4 million. At the end of the day, the MWC or the AAC with the additions of the PAC2 will probably net close to the same amount of money for a media deal.

Stanford and Cal will never even consider the AAC. They didn't even consider the BIGXII.

Kudos to the AAC commissioner though. He has always been solid and delivers results while fighting tooth and nail for his league. I just don't see the AAC as a conference trending up, it appears to be treading water due to the fact that SMU, Memphis, and Tulane will have options in the future when the ACC inevitably implodes.

(08-10-2023 07:38 AM)GreenDaddy Wrote:  

(08-10-2023 03:33 AM)grapes Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC?

- AAC teams almost get paid double than MWC programs.

- AAC has a much better linear deal with ESPN than MWC.

- AAC deal has built in clause that when adding teams $ will be renegotiated, in this case made higher.

- PAC 4 has no deal and the best they could get, caused everyone to leave. AKA Apple TV.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for the highest paying conference they could get an invite too.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for a conference not focused in the west and has a national footprint.

I'm not saying they will do it but I think it's a very intriguing idea that will definitely be discussed.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer on you, but I think there is one factor that is not being thought about.

The AAC deal pays legacy members $7 million/yr now, but they are only being kept whole through the life of the current media contract. The CUSA6 members are starting at half price and then working up to full shares, which I would assume that some of the exit money from UCF,
Cincy, and Houston is helping supplement. It is a very real possibility that the AAC takes a haircut on the next media deal.

The MWC doesn't have that problem. They have not lost any members and the additions of Oregon State and Washington State would probably bump their next media deal higher than the current $4 million. At the end of the day, the MWC or the AAC with the additions of the PAC2 will probably net close to the same amount of money for a media deal.

Stanford and Cal will never even consider the AAC. They didn't even consider the BIGXII.

Kudos to the AAC commissioner though. He has always been solid and delivers results while fighting tooth and nail for his league. I just don't see the AAC as a conference trending up, it appears to be treading water due to the fact that SMU, Memphis, and Tulane will have options in the future when the ACC inevitably implodes.

I’m thinking that OSU and WSU at least slightly raises the MW payout. Maybe from $4 to $6 million. OSU and WSU along with UC, UCF, and UH’s exit fees could at least stabilize the AAC’s payout for the short term foreseeable future.

Joining the MW is best for their fans.

Joining the AAC is best for their national exposure but absolutely screws their fans and will gut attendance.

What circumstances win remains to be seen.

The B1G, SEC, and Big 12 don't have to consider travel costs because the media rights are so high. But they're absolutely going to matter once you're getting upper G5-level money. You can't say Sun Belt fans are delusional and think Wazzu and Oregon State are going to join an AAC where multiple members are on deck for the Big 12 or ACC.

[/quote]

Why did La Tech choose the WAC and stay in the WAC over joining the SBC? Egos are a powerful thing. Do they want to accept being an “equal” to programs like Boise/Wyoming/the rest of the MWC they have viewed as beneath them forever? I agree it’s the correct decision and one that makes sense from a regional and “fit” perspective on paper, but that’s a crazy bitter pill that they might not be willing to swallow.
[/quote]

In order to start football, the Sun Belt was going to have to add schools. New Mexico State, Middle Tennessee and North Texas were joining. ULM and Idaho were being added as football only members, joining UL and Arkansas State. Tech didn't have much of a relationship with those schools, other than ULM, Arkansas State and the Cajuns.

Tech wanted to be in C-USA. They thought their best way to get there was to join up with the WAC. When they agreed to join, TCU was a member. SMU, Tulsa and Rice were in the league as well. They believed being associated with those schools would help to get them into CUSA. It didn't work. All four of the schools left, leaving Louisiana Tech on an island with all West Coast schools. Ruston was closer to Pittsburgh than any of the WAC schools. Eventually they got into CUSA, but by then they had taken huge financial hits because of travel costs.

But that's why they chose the WAC.

(08-10-2023 06:04 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(08-10-2023 03:33 AM)grapes Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC?

- AAC teams almost get paid double than MWC programs.

- AAC has a much better linear deal with ESPN than MWC.

- AAC deal has built in clause that when adding teams $ will be renegotiated, in this case made higher.

- PAC 4 has no deal and the best they could get, caused everyone to leave. AKA Apple TV.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for the highest paying conference they could get an invite too.

- PAC 4 watched all their ex pac members leave for a conference not focused in the west and has a national footprint.

I'm not saying they will do it but I think it's a very intriguing idea that will definitely be discussed.

I'd say these are points that have to be considered. Plus, while the tippy-top brands have moved on, there's still potentially more "buzz" for the AAC than the MWC, and those two schools are going to do everything in their power to maintain the highest possible appearance of relevance. In no way do I think it's an ideal situation for the American or OSU/WSU, but the way things have played out in this round of realignment makes that marriage seem like at least a 50/50 chance at this point.

it all depends on what ESPN sees as far as their needs for 9PM+ kickoff.

They will have some late PM time slots through the Big 12 and SEC contracts.

Also remember OSU and Wazzu were the albatrosses in a deal where the whole PAC deal was worth ~$20MM with all of the B12 and Big departures. What were OSU and Wazzu worth in these circumstances, $10MM a piece? Maybe.

Obviously the best case scenario for the Sun Belt will be for the Pac 4 to invite some combination of AAC/MWC teams on a staggered basis. Something like 2024 Tulane+SMU+Rice+1 2025 sdsu+boise.

Anything that strengthens either the AAC or MWC obviously isn't good for us.

(08-09-2023 06:40 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(08-09-2023 04:48 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Why would WSU and OSU fly over the MWC to play in the AAC? Both AD's talked about losing regional rivalries and the impact on fans and players last week. The MWC would give them all of that and TV money would be similar in each league.

Why did La Tech choose the WAC and stay in the WAC over joining the SBC? Egos are a powerful thing. Do they want to accept being an “equal” to programs like Boise/Wyoming/the rest of the MWC they have viewed as beneath them forever? I agree it’s the correct decision and one that makes sense from a regional and “fit” perspective on paper, but that’s a crazy bitter pill that they might not be willing to swallow.

We all know La Tech is special kind of crazy though.

(08-10-2023 03:20 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  

That's total BULL. The AAC guys are convinced the PAC 4 are joining the amazing AAC! It's true I tell ya, it's gonna happen.