I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Honestly, the ACC shouldn't have to expand to re-establish itself as the premier basketball conference in the nation. It's history is unmatched.

6 different schools have won NCAA titles since 1980.

North Carolina (5 times)
Duke (5 times)
Syracuse
Louisville (3 times)
Virginia
NC State

The Big XII - 2 schools

Kansas (3 times)
Baylor

The SEC - 3 schools

Kentucky (3 times)
Florida (2 times)
Arkansas


The Big Ten - 4 schools

Indiana (2 times)
Michigan
Michigan State
Maryland

The PAC - 2 schools

Arizona
UCLA

The Big East - 3 schools

Georgetown
Villanova (3 times)
UConn (5 times)

(05-31-2023 01:00 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

(05-31-2023 01:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:00 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

Not talking about taking away from the Football aspect in any way shape or form. Not even sharing football payouts but unless some miracle happens there are not many if any additions available to add to get a big bump from ESPN. My point is if ESPN can give a sizable increased payout with adding top available BB schools away from Fox and the Big East as well as gaining the MSG prestige the viewership alone should be wort millions more to the conference over and above any ACCN payout in football revenue

(05-31-2023 02:11 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:00 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

Not talking about taking away from the Football aspect in any way shape or form. Not even sharing football payouts but unless some miracle happens there are not many if any additions available to add to get a big bump from ESPN. My point is if ESPN can give a sizable increased payout with adding top available BB schools away from Fox and the Big East as well as gaining the MSG prestige the viewership alone should be wort millions more to the conference over and above any ACCN payout in football revenue

Again, the ACC is already getting paid more than a basketball-only TV contract would be worth... so adding basketball-onlies won't increase it.

I wouid not add a bunch of BE, just adding UConn wouid be enough for now. I know their football is bad, but they just a decent season and an ACC membership would help them get better at football while not draining their basketball.

If the Pac situation falls through with the ACC, then UConn is a logical add.

Sure, we could add: UConn, Temple, Memphis, Cincy and WVU.

East- BC, UConn, Cuse, Temple, Pitt, WVU Cincy, Louisville, Memphis
Atlantic- VT, UVA, UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

I would rather convince NYU to join and have them restart football, playing early home games in East Rutherford hosting larger draws (Syracuse, Notre Dame, maybe an FSU or Clemson) and then post October games at intimate Yankee Stadium. Get hoops back in MSG with double headers with St. John’s on the bill.

They are a GIANT school and are actually in NYC. Is there a serviceable soccer stadium for early home games vs Stony Brook or LIU?

(05-31-2023 02:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 02:11 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:00 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

Not talking about taking away from the Football aspect in any way shape or form. Not even sharing football payouts but unless some miracle happens there are not many if any additions available to add to get a big bump from ESPN. My point is if ESPN can give a sizable increased payout with adding top available BB schools away from Fox and the Big East as well as gaining the MSG prestige the viewership alone should be wort millions more to the conference over and above any ACCN payout in football revenue

Again, the ACC is already getting paid more than a basketball-only TV contract would be worth... so adding basketball-onlies won't increase it.

The point is Mark it could raise your revenue. All that needs to be done is divide the hoops portion of the contract from the football portion. All football participants get a full portion of the revenue. All hoops' participants get a full portion of the revenue. Adding for hoops only would increase the inventory and viewership for basketball. Therefore, your hoops revenue should increase. Adding those schools to the ACCN is where you pick up a bit more to boot.

If you try to treat all but football adds with equal full shares for all sports of course you lose money. Distinguish between football and basketball and you can add for the later at a profit.

(05-31-2023 03:17 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I wouid not add a bunch of BE, just adding UConn wouid be enough for now. I know their football is bad, but they just a decent season and an ACC membership would help them get better at football while not draining their basketball.

If the Pac situation falls through with the ACC, then UConn is a logical add.

There is nothing logical about adding UConn to the ACC. Ain't gonna happen.

(05-31-2023 02:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 02:11 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:00 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

Not talking about taking away from the Football aspect in any way shape or form. Not even sharing football payouts but unless some miracle happens there are not many if any additions available to add to get a big bump from ESPN. My point is if ESPN can give a sizable increased payout with adding top available BB schools away from Fox and the Big East as well as gaining the MSG prestige the viewership alone should be wort millions more to the conference over and above any ACCN payout in football revenue

Again, the ACC is already getting paid more than a basketball-only TV contract would be worth... so adding basketball-onlies won't increase it.

So You don’t think adding 4-6 of the BE powerhouses would absolutely increase ACC bottom line? This is over and above the ACC Basketball draw We currently have. These aren’t like adding USF, SMU ect, that are Basketball Elites with multiple national championships between them. Again stealing Fox exclusives into ESPN coverage. I can see if just another Tom, Dick and Harry additions bringing nothing to the table but this is different

(05-31-2023 08:09 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 02:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 02:11 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:00 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I know this likely won’t happen but what if since We are locked in until 2030’s and the expansion candidates for Football are quickly becoming slim pickings .
What if since UConn is in discussions with the Big 12 and they see a bump in payout by bringing both Them and Gonzaga in to make Them the premier BB conference for a long time to come that suddenly UConn is now on the radar that the ACC approaches ESPN about backing a potential raid of not just UConn but other Fox owned Big East schools like Villanova,Seaton Hall, Georgetown,St. John’s, Marquette ,DePaul, UConn,Providence to join the ACC if ESPN would provide a substantial bump in pay not only for the Conference but the ACCN and the chance to get MSG as the tournament host. Those schools would get a larger payout then the current BE is getting, the ACC again becomes the premier BB conference for decades to come. Even with 4-6 of those schools it would be a Win for the ACC and ESPN
Should add they will not share in Football payouts in any way. Only Their Olympic sports

Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

Not talking about taking away from the Football aspect in any way shape or form. Not even sharing football payouts but unless some miracle happens there are not many if any additions available to add to get a big bump from ESPN. My point is if ESPN can give a sizable increased payout with adding top available BB schools away from Fox and the Big East as well as gaining the MSG prestige the viewership alone should be wort millions more to the conference over and above any ACCN payout in football revenue

Again, the ACC is already getting paid more than a basketball-only TV contract would be worth... so adding basketball-onlies won't increase it.

So You don’t think adding 4-6 of the BE powerhouses would absolutely increase ACC bottom line? This is over and above the ACC Basketball draw We currently have. These aren’t like adding USF, SMU ect, that are Basketball Elites with multiple national championships between them. Again stealing Fox exclusives into ESPN coverage. I can see if just another Tom, Dick and Harry additions bringing nothing to the table but this is different

You'd have to do something like JRSEC suggested - basketball schools ONLY get revenue from hoops, while football+basketball schools get both streams. Even then, I'm not sure it helps all that much.

I wouldn't want to delude ACC basketball any more that it already has.
Louisville and Cuse are top notch Basketball additions all they have to do is get back to they're traditional norms and no one will be complaining about ACC basketball.

I am tired of seeing the Big 10 get 8 to 12 bids and not reach the Elite Eight pretty much every year. They had a guru maximize their scheduling to get get the most bids for the conference even though they're only mediocre. We need to get someone to maximize our scheduling so that we get the maximum number of bids we can get.

(06-01-2023 04:05 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I wouldn't want to delude ACC basketball any more that it already has.
Louisville and Cuse are top notch Basketball additions all they have to do is get back to they're traditional norms and no one will be complaining about ACC basketball.

I am tired of seeing the Big 10 get 8 to 12 bids and not reach the Elite Eight pretty much every year. They had a guru maximize their scheduling to get get the most bids for the conference even though they're only mediocre. We need to get someone to maximize our scheduling so that we get the maximum number of bids we can get.

If everybody gets a larger chunk of their post season earnings, there will already be a incentive for everybody to “maximize their scheduling” on a individual level.

(06-01-2023 06:18 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 04:05 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I wouldn't want to delude ACC basketball any more that it already has.
Louisville and Cuse are top notch Basketball additions all they have to do is get back to they're traditional norms and no one will be complaining about ACC basketball.

I am tired of seeing the Big 10 get 8 to 12 bids and not reach the Elite Eight pretty much every year. They had a guru maximize their scheduling to get get the most bids for the conference even though they're only mediocre. We need to get someone to maximize our scheduling so that we get the maximum number of bids we can get.

If everybody gets a larger chunk of their post season earnings, there will already be a incentive for everybody to “maximize their scheduling” on a individual level.

From what I've seen, "maximize schedule" really means "minimize OOC losses".

(06-01-2023 06:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 06:18 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 04:05 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I wouldn't want to delude ACC basketball any more that it already has.
Louisville and Cuse are top notch Basketball additions all they have to do is get back to they're traditional norms and no one will be complaining about ACC basketball.

I am tired of seeing the Big 10 get 8 to 12 bids and not reach the Elite Eight pretty much every year. They had a guru maximize their scheduling to get get the most bids for the conference even though they're only mediocre. We need to get someone to maximize our scheduling so that we get the maximum number of bids we can get.

If everybody gets a larger chunk of their post season earnings, there will already be a incentive for everybody to “maximize their scheduling” on a individual level.

From what I've seen, "maximize schedule" really means "minimize OOC losses".

B1G will take the first two steps. Take UCLA, USC, Miami and Florida State. Then other schools will follow based on the fear of being left behind. They may target different schools. But the first four are the must. B1G will try hard to recruit Florida State and Miami.

(05-31-2023 09:14 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 08:09 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 02:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 02:11 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2023 01:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Here's the problem with that thinking: as long as football is 80% of the TV value, that means it's worth 4X as much as basketball. Now, if you're content with earning $20M/year from TV while the football powers make $80M/year then, sure, be the best hoops league you can be! But if you want to stay close in revenue, you MUST compete in football...

Not talking about taking away from the Football aspect in any way shape or form. Not even sharing football payouts but unless some miracle happens there are not many if any additions available to add to get a big bump from ESPN. My point is if ESPN can give a sizable increased payout with adding top available BB schools away from Fox and the Big East as well as gaining the MSG prestige the viewership alone should be wort millions more to the conference over and above any ACCN payout in football revenue

Again, the ACC is already getting paid more than a basketball-only TV contract would be worth... so adding basketball-onlies won't increase it.

So You don’t think adding 4-6 of the BE powerhouses would absolutely increase ACC bottom line? This is over and above the ACC Basketball draw We currently have. These aren’t like adding USF, SMU ect, that are Basketball Elites with multiple national championships between them. Again stealing Fox exclusives into ESPN coverage. I can see if just another Tom, Dick and Harry additions bringing nothing to the table but this is different

You'd have to do something like JRSEC suggested - basketball schools ONLY get revenue from hoops, while football+basketball schools get both streams. Even then, I'm not sure it helps all that much.

Exactly what I was saying all along no Football revenue to the Basketball schools, I think it could definitely be a fairly good bump up in pay as ESPN gaining BE BB schools away from FOX is a win for Them

I think the Big East proved that, in a football dominated era, a hybrid conference doesn't work.