(08-22-2022 04:52 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 04:15 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 04:02 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 03:03 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 01:54 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  Sure. You know more than ERCOT. They just run the power grid, are the ones who sent the request and received the reply from the DOE, and they say that the DOE approved it prior to the event.

Why don’t you explain how it proved your point.

All you have to do is to look at the chart and it proves my point. You simply didnt know what you posted, and probably havent found what at exactly what "time" the event in that pdf was describing.

You posted it. Explain what that chart is and what time the "event" occurred.

So you can’t defend your lie. Thanks for confirming that.

Dear dipsh*t, your chart pdf confirmed what I said.

This is why you are so easily hoodwinked. You swallow without researching.

Can you describe the exact date and time of the "event" in your pdf? So far you have simply been flailing. Its a very easy question any mental midget who posts the pdf in the first place should be able to do.

You claim the chart confirms it, but you can't explain why you think the chart confirms it.

The text below the chart directly contradicts your lie, and was written by ERCOT. I'll trust them over a loon on the internet who can't even explain his position.

Do you have a date and time for the "event" yet?

I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

(08-22-2022 07:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

Thank you, you are exactly correct.

ERCOT requested the ability to start spinning the fossil generators up early on Sunday, so that the systems could be ready to come to power by the time the hard freeze was to hit, which would prevent them from being delayed on startup further due to the very low temps that were forecasted.

But the Biden* administration held off sending approval until early Monday morning, when it was too late to stop the failure. The failure is the "event" in Ercots pdf. While the Biden* administration may have beat the failure by an hour or less, the authorization was about a half day too late to make a difference.

So while Pdf Elvis keeps saying that the approval to startup the generators came prior to the "event", it was delayed and didnt come by the time it needed to.

(08-22-2022 07:23 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 07:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

Thank you, you are exactly correct.

ERCOT requested the ability to start spinning the fossil generators up early on Sunday, so that the systems could be ready to come to power by the time the hard freeze was to hit, which would prevent them from being delayed on startup further due to the very low temps that were forecasted.

But the Biden* administration held off sending approval until early Monday morning, when it was too late to stop the failure. The failure is the "event" in Ercots pdf. While the Biden* administration may have beat the failure by an hour or less, the authorization was about a half day too late to make a difference.

So while Pdf Elvis keeps saying that the approval to startup the generators came prior to the "event", it was delayed and didnt come by the time it needed to.

As usual you are wrong.

ERCOT sent the request on the 14th.
The request was approved on the 14th.
ERCOT sent notification to generation partners on the 14th that it was approved.
https://www.ercot.com/services/comm/mkt_...hives/5187

Why would you insist on lying when this is all verifiable?

(08-22-2022 07:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

They aren’t starting up from scratch. Generally they are working with environmental restrictions that limit output of a specific plant. For example if coal plant x is limited in output to 85% of the rated capacity because of air quality in that county or the impact of effluent on marine life.. This order allows them to exceed that emissions limit and produce at 100% for the duration of the declared emergency.

(08-22-2022 07:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

One other thing on this topic. There are fossil fuel plants that are designed to come online very quickly. These are normally called “Peakers” and are paired with wind / solar product to take advantage of carbon emissions free power when possible and fire up peakers to smooth the supply when needed.

The GE gas turbine plants come online in as little as 5 minutes.

Texas has 63ish Peaker plants, not sure if any of them are also plants that are limited by emissions restrictions.

TBH, Governor Abbott took the most heat for the failure of ERCOT. Which still begs the question why is Texas letting an outside agency run our power grid? Just Saying.

This is one of those things that saving money should not be that large of a priority.

IIRC the 14th was 24 hours long, and the request was sent early on the 14th and the approval very late on the 14th.

(08-22-2022 09:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  IIRC the 14th was 24 hours long, and the request was sent early on the 14th and the approval very late on the 14th.

It was actually received on the 15th, but dated the 14th. There was some brewhaha about that.

(08-22-2022 09:05 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 07:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

One other thing on this topic. There are fossil fuel plants that are designed to come online very quickly. These are normally called “Peakers” and are paired with wind / solar product to take advantage of carbon emissions free power when possible and fire up peakers to smooth the supply when needed.

The GE gas turbine plants come online in as little as 5 minutes.

Texas has 63ish Peaker plants, not sure if any of them are also plants that are limited by emissions restrictions.

They can come online quickly if its not already blasted cold. Thats why the delay in the authorization is everything.

(08-22-2022 09:42 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 09:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  IIRC the 14th was 24 hours long, and the request was sent early on the 14th and the approval very late on the 14th.

It was actually received on the 15th, but dated the 14th. There was some brewhaha about that.

Why do you continue to lie when you have been caught? Is it some type of mental disorder?

ERCOT notified power producers that they had approval to exceed emissions at 5:58 PM on 2/14. Since they don’t have a time machine this means the DOE had to approve their request that was sent in on 2/14 by 5:57PM central time the same day it was received.



Give up your lies.

(08-22-2022 09:44 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 09:05 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-22-2022 07:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have not really researched in detail, but my contemporaneous understanding was that the DOE approval came before the power outage, but not early enough to allow sufficient lead time to take the actions requested. Those generators don't turn on and come up to speed instantly, particularly when they have been shut down for a while. If anybody can confirm or deny that, I would appreciate it.

One other thing on this topic. There are fossil fuel plants that are designed to come online very quickly. These are normally called “Peakers” and are paired with wind / solar product to take advantage of carbon emissions free power when possible and fire up peakers to smooth the supply when needed.

The GE gas turbine plants come online in as little as 5 minutes.

Texas has 63ish Peaker plants, not sure if any of them are also plants that are limited by emissions restrictions.

They can come online quickly if its not already blasted cold. Thats why the delay in the authorization is everything.

Yes, gas turbine Peaker plants could never work in the cold. That’s why there aren’t any up north. Oh wait, there are three gas turbine peakers in North Dakota.

https://www.energynd.com/resources/peaking-plants/

Want to know what they did different? They winterized the plants and the natural gas supply.

The bottom line is that it took a once (or less) in a lifetime event to find a weakness in the ERCOT system. Whereas places like California regularly have rolling blackouts/brownouts, ERCOT's reliability, day in and day out, is quite good.

(08-23-2022 12:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The bottom line is that it took a once (or less) in a lifetime event to find a weakness in the ERCOT system. Whereas places like California regularly have rolling blackouts/brownouts, ERCOT's reliability, day in and day out, is quite good.

More like once a decade. Texas had rolling blackouts in 1989 and 2011 due to winter storms. In 2011 3.2M people were without power (4.4M in 2021). The postmortem of the 2011 event calls out winterization recommendations that were never implemented.

TX lawmakers passed laws this time to require winterization of both the generators and the natural gas system (it has more time to complete) and ERCOT has changed their operations protocol to pay generators to come online earlier even if it costs more. So it’s taken state regulations to improve reliability of the deregulated energy grid.

(08-23-2022 06:25 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 12:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The bottom line is that it took a once (or less) in a lifetime event to find a weakness in the ERCOT system. Whereas places like California regularly have rolling blackouts/brownouts, ERCOT's reliability, day in and day out, is quite good.

More like once a decade. Texas had rolling blackouts in 1989 and 2011 due to winter storms. In 2011 3.2M people were without power (4.4M in 2021). The postmortem of the 2011 event calls out winterization recommendations that were never implemented.

TX lawmakers passed laws this time to require winterization of both the generators and the natural gas system (it has more time to complete) and ERCOT has changed their operations protocol to pay generators to come online earlier even if it costs more. So it’s taken state regulations to improve reliability of the deregulated energy grid.

And if they still have to wait on a dc bureaucrat to give the ok to start them up, they are still in the same boat. You got to remember that there are DC dinner parties these guys go to, and you cant interrupt that for anything, even if people are in danger and dying.

Texas DOES need to budget for winterization of the wind turbines, because even your pdf report admitted they were the first to go offline and suffered major outages.

Funny how you libturds wanted to blame Michael Brown for Katrina, where the response failure was purely on Louisiana democrats, and not blame DC bureaucrats for the Texas disaster, where a single person in dc was holding up signing off and caused a major catastrophe.

By the way, according to your own pdf, Texas was about 5 minutes away from a complete shutdown of their grid. This is what happens when you cant get power to the grid fast enough because some idiot in DC wants to have one more pina colada before dealing with signing off on some paperwork.

(08-23-2022 08:14 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 06:25 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 12:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The bottom line is that it took a once (or less) in a lifetime event to find a weakness in the ERCOT system. Whereas places like California regularly have rolling blackouts/brownouts, ERCOT's reliability, day in and day out, is quite good.

More like once a decade. Texas had rolling blackouts in 1989 and 2011 due to winter storms. In 2011 3.2M people were without power (4.4M in 2021). The postmortem of the 2011 event calls out winterization recommendations that were never implemented.

TX lawmakers passed laws this time to require winterization of both the generators and the natural gas system (it has more time to complete) and ERCOT has changed their operations protocol to pay generators to come online earlier even if it costs more. So it’s taken state regulations to improve reliability of the deregulated energy grid.

And if they still have to wait on a dc bureaucrat to give the ok to start them up, they are still in the same boat. You got to remember that there are DC dinner parties these guys go to, and you cant interrupt that for anything, even if people are in danger and dying.

Texas DOES need to budget for winterization of the wind turbines, because even your pdf report admitted they were the first to go offline and suffered major outages.

Funny how you libturds wanted to blame Michael Brown for Katrina, where the response failure was purely on Louisiana democrats, and not blame DC bureaucrats for the Texas disaster, where a single person in dc was holding up signing off and caused a major catastrophe.

By the way, according to your own pdf, Texas was about 5 minutes away from a complete shutdown of their grid. This is what happens when you cant get power to the grid fast enough because some idiot in DC wants to have one more pina colada before dealing with signing off on some paperwork.

Stop lying. 5:58PM on the 14th. Straight from ERCOT. What sort of mental condition compels you to keep lying when you are already proven wrong?

Texas was about 5 minutes away from a black start because they didn’t regulate their operators to winterize properly and the natural gas supply wasn’t winterized properly for the conditions.

(08-23-2022 09:26 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:14 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 06:25 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 12:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The bottom line is that it took a once (or less) in a lifetime event to find a weakness in the ERCOT system. Whereas places like California regularly have rolling blackouts/brownouts, ERCOT's reliability, day in and day out, is quite good.

More like once a decade. Texas had rolling blackouts in 1989 and 2011 due to winter storms. In 2011 3.2M people were without power (4.4M in 2021). The postmortem of the 2011 event calls out winterization recommendations that were never implemented.

TX lawmakers passed laws this time to require winterization of both the generators and the natural gas system (it has more time to complete) and ERCOT has changed their operations protocol to pay generators to come online earlier even if it costs more. So it’s taken state regulations to improve reliability of the deregulated energy grid.

And if they still have to wait on a dc bureaucrat to give the ok to start them up, they are still in the same boat. You got to remember that there are DC dinner parties these guys go to, and you cant interrupt that for anything, even if people are in danger and dying.

Texas DOES need to budget for winterization of the wind turbines, because even your pdf report admitted they were the first to go offline and suffered major outages.

Funny how you libturds wanted to blame Michael Brown for Katrina, where the response failure was purely on Louisiana democrats, and not blame DC bureaucrats for the Texas disaster, where a single person in dc was holding up signing off and caused a major catastrophe.

By the way, according to your own pdf, Texas was about 5 minutes away from a complete shutdown of their grid. This is what happens when you cant get power to the grid fast enough because some idiot in DC wants to have one more pina colada before dealing with signing off on some paperwork.

Stop lying. 5:58PM on the 14th. Straight from ERCOT. What sort of mental condition compels you to keep lying when you are already proven wrong?

Texas was about 5 minutes away from a black start because they didn’t regulate their operators to winterize properly and the natural gas supply wasn’t winterized properly for the conditions.

lulz, stop lying? Im using your own pdf and charts to prove you wrong.

I dont care what some report from ERCOT says, I saw this unfold in real time. The authorization got into the hands of the people who needed it on the 15th, but the authorization was dated the 14th.

And you pretty much havent disagreed with the fact that they requested authorization early in the morning on the 14th and didnt get it until 6pm even by your own admission.

Like I said, bureaucratic red tape kills people.

(08-23-2022 10:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 09:26 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:14 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 06:25 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 12:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The bottom line is that it took a once (or less) in a lifetime event to find a weakness in the ERCOT system. Whereas places like California regularly have rolling blackouts/brownouts, ERCOT's reliability, day in and day out, is quite good.

More like once a decade. Texas had rolling blackouts in 1989 and 2011 due to winter storms. In 2011 3.2M people were without power (4.4M in 2021). The postmortem of the 2011 event calls out winterization recommendations that were never implemented.

TX lawmakers passed laws this time to require winterization of both the generators and the natural gas system (it has more time to complete) and ERCOT has changed their operations protocol to pay generators to come online earlier even if it costs more. So it’s taken state regulations to improve reliability of the deregulated energy grid.

And if they still have to wait on a dc bureaucrat to give the ok to start them up, they are still in the same boat. You got to remember that there are DC dinner parties these guys go to, and you cant interrupt that for anything, even if people are in danger and dying.

Texas DOES need to budget for winterization of the wind turbines, because even your pdf report admitted they were the first to go offline and suffered major outages.

Funny how you libturds wanted to blame Michael Brown for Katrina, where the response failure was purely on Louisiana democrats, and not blame DC bureaucrats for the Texas disaster, where a single person in dc was holding up signing off and caused a major catastrophe.

By the way, according to your own pdf, Texas was about 5 minutes away from a complete shutdown of their grid. This is what happens when you cant get power to the grid fast enough because some idiot in DC wants to have one more pina colada before dealing with signing off on some paperwork.

Stop lying. 5:58PM on the 14th. Straight from ERCOT. What sort of mental condition compels you to keep lying when you are already proven wrong?

Texas was about 5 minutes away from a black start because they didn’t regulate their operators to winterize properly and the natural gas supply wasn’t winterized properly for the conditions.

lulz, stop lying? Im using your own pdf and charts to prove you wrong.

I dont care what some report from ERCOT says, I saw this unfold in real time. The authorization got into the hands of the people who needed it on the 15th, but the authorization was dated the 14th.

And you pretty much havent disagreed with the fact that they requested authorization early in the morning on the 14th and didnt get it until 6pm even by your own admission.

Like I said, bureaucratic red tape kills people.

The approval was sent to the people who needed it at 5:58PM. You can see the time stamp on the message from ERCOT.

Stop lying.

(08-23-2022 12:13 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 10:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 09:26 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:14 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 06:25 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  More like once a decade. Texas had rolling blackouts in 1989 and 2011 due to winter storms. In 2011 3.2M people were without power (4.4M in 2021). The postmortem of the 2011 event calls out winterization recommendations that were never implemented.

TX lawmakers passed laws this time to require winterization of both the generators and the natural gas system (it has more time to complete) and ERCOT has changed their operations protocol to pay generators to come online earlier even if it costs more. So it’s taken state regulations to improve reliability of the deregulated energy grid.

And if they still have to wait on a dc bureaucrat to give the ok to start them up, they are still in the same boat. You got to remember that there are DC dinner parties these guys go to, and you cant interrupt that for anything, even if people are in danger and dying.

Texas DOES need to budget for winterization of the wind turbines, because even your pdf report admitted they were the first to go offline and suffered major outages.

Funny how you libturds wanted to blame Michael Brown for Katrina, where the response failure was purely on Louisiana democrats, and not blame DC bureaucrats for the Texas disaster, where a single person in dc was holding up signing off and caused a major catastrophe.

By the way, according to your own pdf, Texas was about 5 minutes away from a complete shutdown of their grid. This is what happens when you cant get power to the grid fast enough because some idiot in DC wants to have one more pina colada before dealing with signing off on some paperwork.

Stop lying. 5:58PM on the 14th. Straight from ERCOT. What sort of mental condition compels you to keep lying when you are already proven wrong?

Texas was about 5 minutes away from a black start because they didn’t regulate their operators to winterize properly and the natural gas supply wasn’t winterized properly for the conditions.

lulz, stop lying? Im using your own pdf and charts to prove you wrong.

I dont care what some report from ERCOT says, I saw this unfold in real time. The authorization got into the hands of the people who needed it on the 15th, but the authorization was dated the 14th.

And you pretty much havent disagreed with the fact that they requested authorization early in the morning on the 14th and didnt get it until 6pm even by your own admission.

Like I said, bureaucratic red tape kills people.

The approval was sent to the people who needed it at 5:58PM. You can see the time stamp on the message from ERCOT.

Stop lying.

And even if it were true, it was too late.

(08-23-2022 12:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 12:13 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 10:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 09:26 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 08:14 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  And if they still have to wait on a dc bureaucrat to give the ok to start them up, they are still in the same boat. You got to remember that there are DC dinner parties these guys go to, and you cant interrupt that for anything, even if people are in danger and dying.

Texas DOES need to budget for winterization of the wind turbines, because even your pdf report admitted they were the first to go offline and suffered major outages.

Funny how you libturds wanted to blame Michael Brown for Katrina, where the response failure was purely on Louisiana democrats, and not blame DC bureaucrats for the Texas disaster, where a single person in dc was holding up signing off and caused a major catastrophe.

By the way, according to your own pdf, Texas was about 5 minutes away from a complete shutdown of their grid. This is what happens when you cant get power to the grid fast enough because some idiot in DC wants to have one more pina colada before dealing with signing off on some paperwork.

Stop lying. 5:58PM on the 14th. Straight from ERCOT. What sort of mental condition compels you to keep lying when you are already proven wrong?

Texas was about 5 minutes away from a black start because they didn’t regulate their operators to winterize properly and the natural gas supply wasn’t winterized properly for the conditions.

lulz, stop lying? Im using your own pdf and charts to prove you wrong.

I dont care what some report from ERCOT says, I saw this unfold in real time. The authorization got into the hands of the people who needed it on the 15th, but the authorization was dated the 14th.

And you pretty much havent disagreed with the fact that they requested authorization early in the morning on the 14th and didnt get it until 6pm even by your own admission.

Like I said, bureaucratic red tape kills people.

The approval was sent to the people who needed it at 5:58PM. You can see the time stamp on the message from ERCOT.

Stop lying.

And even if it were true, it was too late.

Now you're moving the goal posts. You’ve been harping about the 15th for 30 posts. Now you want to claim same day approval was too late.

ERCOT didn’t start load shedding until 8 hours after the approval was sent to generators. ERCOT was able to access an additional 1400Mw thanks to these measures.

You know how long they had to winterize? Since 2011.

You are grasping at straws and lying in an attempt to blame Biden for an outage caused by the state of Texas’s failure to regulate winterization of the generation and natural gas systems after the 2011 outage.