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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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About No New Audit's
08-11-2022 11:35 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
IRS Controversially Claims Hiring 87,000 New Agents Won't Mean Higher Audit Rate for the Middle Class


Quote:Since the Inflation Reduction Act passed the Senate and is now headed to the House for a Friday vote, Republicans have loudly critiqued the IRS-supersizing provisions while Democrats have tried to assure voters that hiring an additional 87,000 tax-collecting agents, as the legislation calls for, will not lead to higher audit rates for middle- and upper-middle-class taxpayers:



The House version of the legislation had originally contained a line saying "nothing in this subsection is intended to increase taxes on any taxpayer with a taxable income below $400,000"—which was hardly a solid guarantee in the first place, and offered no assurance that audits for this income band would not rise. All this was seemingly an attempt to reflect President Joe Biden's frequent campaign pledge, reiterated in his State of the Union address, that taxes wouldn't effectively be raised for the middle class, defined generously.



But if Sen. Chris Murphy (D–Conn.) and other Democrats meant what they said, they shouldn't have killed a similar assurance when it was offered in the Senate version as an amendment, "nodding to the notion that taxpayers making under $400,000 wouldn't be the subject of increased audits," says Andrew Lautz of the National Taxpayers Union. Meanwhile, "the oversight and reporting provisions [which were also removed] ensured Congress could keep a regular and watchful eye over the agency's plans," he adds.

"What comfort do taxpayers have in the absence of those provisions? Statements from members of Congress and the administration. That will be cold comfort to some," says Lautz.

Meanwhile, IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig hedges by saying that "audit rates will not rise relative to recent years." This depends on what he means by "recent years." It also depends on what he means by "audit rate." As in, if the total number of audits drastically increases, then the audit rate of certain income bands might stay the same or even decrease—some convenient trickery that may allow him to be correct on a technicality.

"Millionaires in 2018 were about 80% less likely to be audited than they were in 2011," reported ProPublica in 2019. Audit rates circa 2010–2011 were such that about one in six rich households—defined as those earning over $5 million—was audited, versus about one in 50 circa 2019. So Rettig may be counting 2010 as a recent year, or he may be counting 2019 as a recent year, but which years he's referring to matters when assessing how audit rates might change.

In 2018, "the top 1% of taxpayers by income were audited at a rate of 1.56%. EITC [earned income tax credit] recipients, who typically have annual income under $20,000, were audited at 1.41%," found ProPublica. These converging audit rates, where poor and rich are somewhat equally targeted by the IRS, is due in part to the fact that audits hitting EITC recipients are quite easy to do, frequently called "correspondence audits." The IRS finds lots of noncompliance this way, and is generally able to conduct these audits by mail, assigning low-level agents to these cases. There's no real reason to believe some of these newly hired 87,000 agents—who will necessarily be inexperienced—won't be assigned to conduct correspondence audits or those which crack down on the nonrich. But again, if the overall number of audits drastically increases, then Democrats may be hoping they'll be able to tout the audit rate as having stayed the same for poor people.

There's a separate case to be made that the "working rich"—high-earning doctors and lawyers, with dual-income households generating in the ballpark of $400,000 per year—similarly do not deserve to have a legion of IRS agents breathing down their necks. Given that the U.S. has physician and pilot shortages, perhaps it is a fool's errand for the government to disincentivize smart, hardworking people, who are unlikely to ever require government welfare, from pursuing high-paying professions.

All that aside, the specific claim being contested by today's partisans is whether adding a massive stadium's worth of agents to the IRS is likely to increase audits and audit rates for households making under $400,000 a year. It's hard to imagine it won't, especially given that it is frequently much easier for auditors to go after poorer people than those armed with teams of lawyers. It's harder still to imagine why a provision that attempted to clarify this intention was removed if lawmakers are serious about their promise.
08-11-2022 11:40 AM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
Thank you, Joe Manchin. I'm sure the people of West Virginia were excluded as part of the deal. Suckers.
08-11-2022 11:40 AM
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VA49er Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
Smart people knew it was a lie the minute the the claim was made.
08-11-2022 12:05 PM
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TripleA Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 12:05 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Smart people knew it was a lie the minute the the claim was made.

I don't think you have to be that smart.
08-11-2022 09:04 PM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
I haven't believed a word the idiot administration has said and they never prove me wrong.

Lying sacks of sh!t every one of them.
08-11-2022 09:10 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
I'm just getting this post in before the water carriers start saying stuff like "well, if you have nothing to hide, you shouldnt' be afraid of being audited again" and even "no, they never said 'no new audits' at all", among other things to spin it to make this bullcrap look good.
08-11-2022 09:19 PM
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tennis2k4 Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
They literally never said no new audits at all though so keep talking out of your ass.
08-11-2022 10:40 PM
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BlueDragon Online
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RE: About No New Audit's
Lets review. 80,000 more IRS agents and no new border agents. Hmmmm. I suspect we will need to scrutinize more tax returns to pay for these IRS agents. So yes more lower income Americans will be audited all the way down to $75K incomes. Truly a squeeze play by Uncle Sam.

On the other hand, we have approximately 20,000 border agents being over run by more than 1 million illegals this year alone. So guess how many new border agents we are getting? How about none.

Only fools would defend this.
08-11-2022 10:46 PM
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tennis2k4 Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
https://time.com/6204928/irs-87000-agent...eck-biden/ reading this article could help y'all from seeming like fools and making dumb*** claims about having that many new agents.
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2022 10:50 PM by tennis2k4.)
08-11-2022 10:49 PM
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tennis2k4 Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 10:46 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Lets review. 80,000 more IRS agents and no new border agents. Hmmmm. I suspect we will need to scrutinize more tax returns to pay for these IRS agents. So yes more lower income Americans will be audited all the way down to $75K incomes. Truly a squeeze play by Uncle Sam.

On the other hand, we have approximately 20,000 border agents being over run by more than 1 million illegals this year alone. So guess how many new border agents we are getting? How about none.

Only fools would defend this.

Where did you get that 1 million figure from, the hate group FAIR?
08-11-2022 10:53 PM
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BlueDragon Online
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 10:49 PM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  https://time.com/6204928/irs-87000-agent...eck-biden/ reading this article could help y'all from seeming like fools and making dumb*** claims about having that many new agents.

You are a slow roll. You are the kind of folks Dems love to keep in the dark.

The inflation bill would direct $80 billion to the IRS, with $45.6 billion aimed chiefly at enforcement.

CBS
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2022 10:56 PM by BlueDragon.)
08-11-2022 10:55 PM
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BlueDragon Online
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 10:53 PM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  
(08-11-2022 10:46 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Lets review. 80,000 more IRS agents and no new border agents. Hmmmm. I suspect we will need to scrutinize more tax returns to pay for these IRS agents. So yes more lower income Americans will be audited all the way down to $75K incomes. Truly a squeeze play by Uncle Sam.

On the other hand, we have approximately 20,000 border agents being over run by more than 1 million illegals this year alone. So guess how many new border agents we are getting? How about none.

Only fools would defend this.

Where did you get that 1 million figure from, the hate group FAIR?

That figure is from the Homeland Security almost 400,000 came through Eagle Pass Texas and Del Rio area. These are probably conservative figures.

Does a favor and do something this admin wont do, go visit the Texas Border if you are not too scared.
08-11-2022 11:00 PM
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tennis2k4 Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
"A Treasury Department report from May 2021 estimated that such an investment would enable the agency to hire roughly 87,000 employees by 2031. But most of those hires would not be Internal Revenue agents, and wouldn’t be new positions."
"At the same time, more than half of the agency’s current employees are eligible for retirement and are expected to leave the agency within the next five years. “There’s a big wave of attrition that’s coming and a lot of these resources are just about filling those positions,” says Sarin, an economist who has studied tax avoidance extensively and who was tapped by the Biden administration to beef up the IRS’s auditing power."

Just admit you were wrong about about the number of new agents and be done with it.
08-11-2022 11:00 PM
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BlueDragon Online
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 11:00 PM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  "A Treasury Department report from May 2021 estimated that such an investment would enable the agency to hire roughly 87,000 employees by 2031. But most of those hires would not be Internal Revenue agents, and wouldn’t be new positions."
"At the same time, more than half of the agency’s current employees are eligible for retirement and are expected to leave the agency within the next five years. “There’s a big wave of attrition that’s coming and a lot of these resources are just about filling those positions,” says Sarin, an economist who has studied tax avoidance extensively and who was tapped by the Biden administration to beef up the IRS’s auditing power."

Just admit you were wrong about about the number of new agents and be done with it.

How much do agents cost and how many can I buy for $80 Billion?
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2022 11:02 PM by BlueDragon.)
08-11-2022 11:01 PM
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tennis2k4 Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 11:01 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-11-2022 11:00 PM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  "A Treasury Department report from May 2021 estimated that such an investment would enable the agency to hire roughly 87,000 employees by 2031. But most of those hires would not be Internal Revenue agents, and wouldn’t be new positions."
"At the same time, more than half of the agency’s current employees are eligible for retirement and are expected to leave the agency within the next five years. “There’s a big wave of attrition that’s coming and a lot of these resources are just about filling those positions,” says Sarin, an economist who has studied tax avoidance extensively and who was tapped by the Biden administration to beef up the IRS’s auditing power."

Just admit you were wrong about about the number of new agents and be done with it.

How much do agents cost and how many can I buy for $80 Billion?
There won't be 87k new agents period, get it through your stupid skull. Some of the money will be going to upgrading equipment, there was a pretty harrowing article about how outdated they are https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...&itid=gfta
08-11-2022 11:11 PM
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VA49er Offline
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RE: About No New Audit's
(08-11-2022 09:04 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(08-11-2022 12:05 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Smart people knew it was a lie the minute the the claim was made.

I don't think you have to be that smart.

There are way more stupid people than smart people. That's something the D's figured out long time ago. It's who they target and who they count on to stay in power.
08-12-2022 08:13 AM
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