The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(08-09-2022 01:34 PM)Brownandgoldlaker Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:07 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:01 PM)Brownandgoldlaker Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:53 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:31 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  The United States is a representative democracy, a form of democratic government. You're debating semantics. BroncoMinor is clearly using the colloquial term "democracy" to reference our democratic system, not pure democracy.

And when trying to correct someone, maybe don't link to a website with a clear political bias.

LOL, the other Trump thread was started with a link to the website Salon, yet you said nothing. Or are you saying Salon does not have a clear political bias?

Colin is not bias. He is a straight down the middle moderator.

Oh cry me a river. We've talked about this before. I'm allowed to have personal opinions. I'm not a judge presiding over a courtroom. All I do here is keep people in line and make sure we're all following the forum rules and not doing anything illegal.

I'm just ribbing you Colin. That was probably a cheap shot, sorry.

No worries, this isn't my first time on the internet! If we can't banter about politics (especially in the offseason), where's the fun in that?

Dear DtwnBronco,
Our forefathers had no confidence in the common people of this country. That is one of the reasons the electoral college was set up. So that the popular vote could be circumvented if the electors did not like the candidate that won the popular vote.
In my opinion, that is why the electoral college should be done away with, and just have the person that wins the majority of the popular vote declared winner. And that would be a democracy.

(08-09-2022 12:15 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  The United States of America is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic, established by our founding fathers and fortified by our constitution specifically not be a true democracy. This article does a good job of explaining of why a true majority rule is not a truly representative form of government.

Full article here:
A Remedial Lesson on a Republic Versus Democracy in This Era of Revisionist History

Stop it with this BS already. And stop sharing your garbage links to back yourself up.

Redstate, lol. Who buys that nonsense?

Fascism in America

"I don't know what Christo-nationalism is." -- holybull5hlt
"Freedom of religion is ending in America." -- holybull5hlt
"Democrats are bad too" -- Brownandgoldmoron
"So what? Elderly African Americans wear Obama shirts. That's how you know they're a cult too." -- Brownandgoldmoron

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-...bi-search/

Quote:Simmering threat of violence comes to fore with search of Trump property
Calls from right for militant action in response to FBI raid span mainstream and extremist circles

For months, right-wing agitators with millions of followers have peddled the idea that a moment was coming soon when violence would become necessary — a patriotic duty — to save the republic.

With the FBI search Monday of Donald Trump’s compound in Florida, that moment is now, according to enraged commentators’ all-caps, exclamation-pointed screeds urging supporters of the former president to take up arms. Within hours of the search at Mar-a-Lago, a chorus of Republican lawmakers, conservative talk-show hosts, anti-government provocateurs and pro-Trump conspiracy theorists began issuing explicit or thinly veiled calls for violence.

“Today is war. That is all you will get on today’s show,” right-wing podcaster Steven Crowder announced Tuesday to his nearly 2 million followers on Twitter, referring to the program that goes to his YouTube audience of 5.6 million.

Extremist organizers have tried to hold on to the momentum they built in recent years by finding big-tent causes disparate factions could rally around, such as opposition to pandemic restrictions, “Stop the Steal” election denial, or an imagined socialist “indoctrination” of schoolchildren. With each iteration, analysts say, the networks have grown more sophisticated and more violent, as evidenced by the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021.

The FBI’s search at Mar-a-Lago for classified documents is now presented as a tipping point, an existential threat to the United States that true patriots must thwart.

FBI searches Trump safe at Mar-a-Lago for possible classified documents

Extremism researcher Caroline Orr Bueno compiled a collage of dozens of screenshots of tweets calling for violence in response to the search, or “raid” in the parlance of Trump supporters. “I already bought my ammo,” one person boasted in the sampling. “Civil war! Pick up arms, people!” ordered another.

An immediate concern is the safety of the federal judge in Florida who approved the search warrant. Once his name made its way to right-wing forums, threats and conspiracy theories soon followed. Online pro-Trump groups spread his contact information and, as of Tuesday afternoon, the judge’s official page was no longer accessible on the court’s website.

Orr Bueno said it was ominous to see “a disturbing number of elected Republicans and influential right-wing figures joining in on the ‘civil war’ rhetoric.”

“This whole situation is red meat for their base. They use events like this to feed into this fantasy they’ve co-created with their supporters, and defusing the situation would require stepping out of that alternate reality,” said Orr Bueno, a postdoctoral research associate at the University of Maryland who studies disinformation. “They’re not going to do that, particularly with 2024 right around the corner.”

Since the search Monday, Telegram channels popular with right-wing militants have been awash with vows to “lock and load” for civil war against what they deem a tyrannical federal government subverting the Constitution and “persecuting” a patriotic leader. NBC News identified one user who referenced civil war on TheDonald, a Reddit-like forum for Trump supporters, as Tyler Welsh Slaeker, who is awaiting sentencing for his role in storming the Capitol.

(08-09-2022 02:31 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear DtwnBronco,
Our forefathers had no confidence in the common people of this country. That is one of the reasons the electoral college was set up. So that the popular vote could be circumvented if the electors did not like the candidate that won the popular vote.
In my opinion, that is why the electoral college should be done away with, and just have the person that wins the majority of the popular vote declared winner. And that would be a democracy.

- True, the US forefathers saw government as a vehicle for people like them, the wealthy and entitled.

- The "popular vote" was designed to include about 25% of the population. The rest; black, brown, native, women, contract laborers, etc... were not expected to participate. This thinking resonates today in the stop the steal movement which rejects these populations serving as the deciding margins in close races. It's why cities like Milwaukee, Atlanta, Pheonix were the targets of that movement, because the people who live in them are not supposed to determine elections. Nobody claims that 12,000 rural white guys in Georgia who thought Biden a better option than Trump flipped that state.

- The original Greek democracy was built around a lottery system where any citizen interested in governing could submit their name and a certain # were chosen by lot. It was designed because elections were understood to benefit the wealthy and politically connected. Some parts of the world are returning to versions of this system.

- in the US all of this is confused by the influence of native american ideas about freedom, equality, collective decision making, checks and balances, etc... These things we think of as part of the US identity were gradually borrowed in part by Europeans in the 1500s-1800s and became the enlightenment, US revolution, French revolution, etc... As a result we have a system built off the political thinking of the indigneous population which was killed off, mixed with a European immigrant desire to escape the authoritarian rule of kings and queens, designed and led by the most wealthy and educated of the emerging nation. It's highly conflicted at its core but sounds pretty liberating.

Tells you all you need to know that the Republicans and MAGAts are outraged by Mar-a-Lago raid but not the January 6 insurrection.

Interesting that FBI director who ordered the raid was nominated by Trump.

MAGA has already cooked up their new big lie. Everyone is going to say the FBI planted evidence. Trump is already saying it. You know somebody is guilty when their only defense is “planted evidence”.

(08-09-2022 07:26 PM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:15 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  The United States of America is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic, established by our founding fathers and fortified by our constitution specifically not be a true democracy. This article does a good job of explaining of why a true majority rule is not a truly representative form of government.

Full article here:
A Remedial Lesson on a Republic Versus Democracy in This Era of Revisionist History

Stop it with this BS already. And stop sharing your garbage links to back yourself up.

Redstate, lol. Who buys that nonsense?

Charmless, thank you for “outing yourself” for being the extremist you are. You criticize others here who have a different view point than you do and for posting links to a publication that supports an opinion, just because it doesn’t support your opinion.

Yet you just posted a link to an article in which publication? The Washington Post, one of the most left leaning major publications. Isn't this the same thing you ripped DtownBronco for? But don’t take my word for it, here is an article from Aaron Blake, a Washington Post Writer, who backs up his opinion (and mine) with Pew Research:

Ranking the media from liberal to conservative, based on their audiences.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...audiences/

And how far left is the Washington Post who is owned/controlled by Jeff Bezos the richest man in the world?

Bezos ‘Greases’ Way Into Dem Establishment With $100 Million Obama Donation

Obama-Biden alum Jay Carney arranged the massive gift

https://freebeacon.com/democrats/bezos-g...-donation/

Bezos's donation comes at a difficult political moment for Amazon. Lawmakers from both parties fault the company for its poor treatment of workers and abuse of its market power. The company has also come under fire for banning conservative voices. This year, Amazon banned a book that criticizes transgender ideology and blocked an ad for a book that criticizes the Black Lives Matter movement.

Bezos has tasked Carney, who served as then-vice president Joe Biden's communications director, to ingratiate Amazon with Democratic lawmakers. Under Carney's leadership, Amazon's lobbying team has grown from about two dozen to 250 members. Reuters reported Friday that Carney has successfully lobbied to kill privacy protections for consumers in 25 states.

Obama's presidential center is the first presidential library or museum to be run by a partisan nonprofit, rather than by the National Archives and Records Administration. Bezos's ex-wife Mackenzie Scott and Bill and Melinda Gates have already made substantial donations to the center, which presidential scholars worry will become a partisan slush fund.

And people want to know why/how a Trump ever was elected President (See Bezos "Greases" above). Politically speaking, Trump was very smart taping into the pulse of a forgotten and over looked American voter, who were/are very frustrated with both Republicans and Democrats. It’s that rural resident, farmer/rancher, blue collar worker, veteran and small business owner who live week to week. These voters did/do not feel like they have a voice, until Trump came along with intentions to challenge the establishment (republicans and democrats). They wanted a disruptor and they were/are willing to overlook Trumps many, many faults.

P.S., if you are going to quote me, please take the time to copy/paste what I have written, vs. making up your own version and putting them in “quotes” implying what I wrote, which is not the case. I know you are extreme and you have strong opinions, but you don’t have to “deceive people” in an attempt to make your point. I think you're better than this, but maybe I'm wrong.

(08-10-2022 09:06 AM)Brownandgoldlaker Wrote:  And people want to know why/how a Trump ever was elected President (See Bezo "Greases" above). Politically speaking, Trump was very smart taping into the pulse of a forgotten and over looked American voter, who were/are very frustrated with both Republicans and Democrats. It’s that rural resident, farmer/rancher, blue collar worker and small business owner who live week to week. These voters did/do not feel like they have a voice, until Trump came along with intentions to challenge the establishment (republicans and democrats). They wanted a disruptor and they were/are willing to overlook Trumps many, many faults.

I'll be the first to admit that Trump saw an opening in the electorate and exploited it (DJT leaned Democrat and hobnobbed with Hollywood celebs through much of his adult life). It's actually impressive that a billionaire real estate mogul from New Yawk with his Eastern European arm candy was able to convince Middle America that he "related" to them. Achieving that rock star status is no easy feat. Though these seeds were planted years ago during the Gingrich Congress, accelerating with the 2000s Tea Party, and given full bloom by Trumpism.

I believe the Conservative base - especially in modern times - is far more focused on social/cultural conservatism as opposed to fiscal conservatism, which also may explain why Democrats' seemingly pro-worker platforms like unionism, high wages, health care, etc., find it hard to make a true dent in the heartland and rust belt.

And this is likely brought on by the the demographic shifts in America (getting "browner") over the past quarter century, as well as social shifts like gay marriage and a more honest approach to addressing American history in public schools, and certainly culminating with a black President, that disrupt the Old School way of thinking. 'Make America Great Again' is more than just a hint at that and brings out the Archie Bunker angst in folks, of which those flames have been fanned by Rupert Murdoch's empire for the past couple decades.

Conservatives can pay lip service to Trump asking European NATO for more $ and criticize spending bills, which are understandable in a sense. But quite honestly, those things don't rank high on the importance scale. Republican presidents have notoriously had high deficit spending, but it's generally overlooked. It's more about white grievance and a festering distrust of public institutions that they perceive threaten their 'way of life.'

TL/DR: Trump admittedly hit a home run in capturing the hearts n' minds of blue collar Middle America where guys like Romney and McCain couldn't, but their angst is less about econ and fiscal issues and more about good ol' boy cultural wars and existential (perceived or real) social threats.

(08-10-2022 10:36 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:06 AM)Brownandgoldlaker Wrote:  And people want to know why/how a Trump ever was elected President (See Bezo "Greases" above). Politically speaking, Trump was very smart taping into the pulse of a forgotten and over looked American voter, who were/are very frustrated with both Republicans and Democrats. It’s that rural resident, farmer/rancher, blue collar worker and small business owner who live week to week. These voters did/do not feel like they have a voice, until Trump came along with intentions to challenge the establishment (republicans and democrats). They wanted a disruptor and they were/are willing to overlook Trumps many, many faults.

I'll be the first to admit that Trump saw an opening in the electorate and exploited it (DJT leaned Democrat and hobnobbed with Hollywood celebs through much of his adult life). It's actually impressive that a billionaire real estate mogul from New Yawk with his Eastern European arm candy was able to convince Middle America that he "related" to them. Achieving that rock star status is no easy feat. Though these seeds were planted years ago during the Gingrich Congress, accelerating with the 2000s Tea Party, and given full bloom by Trumpism.

I believe the Conservative base - especially in modern times - is far more focused on social/cultural conservatism as opposed to fiscal conservatism, which also may explain why Democrats' seemingly pro-worker platforms like unionism, high wages, health care, etc., find it hard to make a true dent in the heartland and rust belt.

And this is likely brought on by the the demographic shifts in America (getting "browner") over the past quarter century, as well as social shifts like gay marriage and a more honest approach to addressing American history in public schools, and certainly culminating with a black President, that disrupt the Old School way of thinking. 'Make America Great Again' is more than just a hint at that and brings out the Archie Bunker angst in folks, of which those flames have been fanned by Rupert Murdoch's empire for the past couple decades.

Conservatives can pay lip service to Trump asking European NATO for more $ and criticize spending bills, which are understandable in a sense. But quite honestly, those things don't rank high on the importance scale. Republican presidents have notoriously had high deficit spending, but it's generally overlooked. It's more about white grievance and a festering distrust of public institutions that they perceive threaten their 'way of life.'

TL/DR: Trump admittedly hit a home run in capturing the hearts n' minds of blue collar Middle America where guys like Romney and McCain couldn't, but their angst is less about econ and fiscal issues and more about good ol' boy cultural wars and existential (perceived or real) social threats.

This is an excellent summary. Well said.

(08-10-2022 10:42 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:36 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:06 AM)Brownandgoldlaker Wrote:  And people want to know why/how a Trump ever was elected President (See Bezo "Greases" above). Politically speaking, Trump was very smart taping into the pulse of a forgotten and over looked American voter, who were/are very frustrated with both Republicans and Democrats. It’s that rural resident, farmer/rancher, blue collar worker and small business owner who live week to week. These voters did/do not feel like they have a voice, until Trump came along with intentions to challenge the establishment (republicans and democrats). They wanted a disruptor and they were/are willing to overlook Trumps many, many faults.

I'll be the first to admit that Trump saw an opening in the electorate and exploited it (DJT leaned Democrat and hobnobbed with Hollywood celebs through much of his adult life). It's actually impressive that a billionaire real estate mogul from New Yawk with his Eastern European arm candy was able to convince Middle America that he "related" to them. Achieving that rock star status is no easy feat. Though these seeds were planted years ago during the Gingrich Congress, accelerating with the 2000s Tea Party, and given full bloom by Trumpism.

I believe the Conservative base - especially in modern times - is far more focused on social/cultural conservatism as opposed to fiscal conservatism, which also may explain why Democrats' seemingly pro-worker platforms like unionism, high wages, health care, etc., find it hard to make a true dent in the heartland and rust belt.

And this is likely brought on by the the demographic shifts in America (getting "browner") over the past quarter century, as well as social shifts like gay marriage and a more honest approach to addressing American history in public schools, and certainly culminating with a black President, that disrupt the Old School way of thinking. 'Make America Great Again' is more than just a hint at that and brings out the Archie Bunker angst in folks, of which those flames have been fanned by Rupert Murdoch's empire for the past couple decades.

Conservatives can pay lip service to Trump asking European NATO for more $ and criticize spending bills, which are understandable in a sense. But quite honestly, those things don't rank high on the importance scale. Republican presidents have notoriously had high deficit spending, but it's generally overlooked. It's more about white grievance and a festering distrust of public institutions that they perceive threaten their 'way of life.'

TL/DR: Trump admittedly hit a home run in capturing the hearts n' minds of blue collar Middle America where guys like Romney and McCain couldn't, but their angst is less about econ and fiscal issues and more about good ol' boy cultural wars and existential (perceived or real) social threats.

This is an excellent summary. Well said.

Agreed.

(08-10-2022 10:36 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  TL/DR: Trump admittedly hit a home run in capturing the hearts n' minds of blue collar Middle America where guys like Romney and McCain couldn't, but their angst is less about econ and fiscal issues and more about good ol' boy cultural wars and existential (perceived or real) social threats.

In other words, while few will admit it publicly, it's largely racial - right in Trump's wheelhouse.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factchec...SL1N2MT312

(08-09-2022 10:06 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 09:34 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  Btw, did you see the Trumpers who gathered outside of Mar-A-Lago while all of this was going down? Their vehicles adorned with Trump signs and flags. They wore Trump gear and professed their love for him from the streets and the rooftops. People with absolutely nothing better to do.

Totally not a cult, right?

You guys on here discuss Trump pretty much everyday. It's fascinating. Trying going a week without thinking of him. It might improve your lives.

You're right. It is fascinating. Not everyone gets to live through the rise of far right nationalism. Makes for interesting discussion.

And I intend to not let this country fall into a theocratic dictatorship.

Wow, you must be a pretty important guy!

I knew this was coming after all the rhetoric the last few days.
https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/15577...61H7ci1drA

I'm waiting to see what the boxes reveal. Let it unfold and then make remarks either way.

(08-11-2022 10:21 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 10:06 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 09:34 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  Btw, did you see the Trumpers who gathered outside of Mar-A-Lago while all of this was going down? Their vehicles adorned with Trump signs and flags. They wore Trump gear and professed their love for him from the streets and the rooftops. People with absolutely nothing better to do.

Totally not a cult, right?

You guys on here discuss Trump pretty much everyday. It's fascinating. Trying going a week without thinking of him. It might improve your lives.

You're right. It is fascinating. Not everyone gets to live through the rise of far right nationalism. Makes for interesting discussion.

And I intend to not let this country fall into a theocratic dictatorship.

Wow, you must be a pretty important guy!

No, just a regular citizen doing the right thing.

Shouldn't we ALL be against a theocratic dictatorship? Or do you disagree?

You are just like some others around here. Always posting without actually saying anything.

(08-11-2022 10:46 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(08-11-2022 10:21 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 10:06 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 09:34 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  Btw, did you see the Trumpers who gathered outside of Mar-A-Lago while all of this was going down? Their vehicles adorned with Trump signs and flags. They wore Trump gear and professed their love for him from the streets and the rooftops. People with absolutely nothing better to do.

Totally not a cult, right?

You guys on here discuss Trump pretty much everyday. It's fascinating. Trying going a week without thinking of him. It might improve your lives.

You're right. It is fascinating. Not everyone gets to live through the rise of far right nationalism. Makes for interesting discussion.

And I intend to not let this country fall into a theocratic dictatorship.

Wow, you must be a pretty important guy!

No, just a regular citizen doing the right thing.

Shouldn't we ALL be against a theocratic dictatorship? Or do you disagree?

You are just like some others around here. Always posting without actually saying anything.

The MAGats have adopted the Trump playbook going back to when he was getting sued for real estate deals- Deny, Deflect, Delay.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/shots-fired.../40869695#

Quote:A pursuit and ongoing police situation in Clinton County has shut down two highways and prompted an area lockdown Thursday. It all started after an armed suspect attempted to breach an FBI building in Cincinnati.

I wonder what would inspire that?

(08-09-2022 07:26 PM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:15 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  The United States of America is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic, established by our founding fathers and fortified by our constitution specifically not be a true democracy. This article does a good job of explaining of why a true majority rule is not a truly representative form of government.

Full article here:
A Remedial Lesson on a Republic Versus Democracy in This Era of Revisionist History

Stop it with this BS already. And stop sharing your garbage links to back yourself up.

Redstate, lol. Who buys that nonsense?

Morons who watch OAN or Newsmax.

Trump already had to return boxes of documents that were "Classified" or "Top Secret" before National Archives found others missing that prompted this FBI raid.

The man just has no respect for our system of government, the rule of law - or anything besides what he sees as best for himself.