(07-20-2022 02:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The way I see it is that the cartels are just supplying the demand. They're good entrepreneurs, 'ats all.

Seriously, if there are stupid people using drugs with all its ill ramifications and they don't care, why should I. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry about them having fentyl in them. It's like playing Russian roulette...it's so simple.

I have no sympathy for drug users and if my kids/grandkids used them I'd still feel the same way. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.

I agree. You can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm.

(07-20-2022 04:37 PM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 02:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The way I see it is that the cartels are just supplying the demand. They're good entrepreneurs, 'ats all.

Seriously, if there are stupid people using drugs with all its ill ramifications and they don't care, why should I. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry about them having fentyl in them. It's like playing Russian roulette...it's so simple.

I have no sympathy for drug users and if my kids/grandkids used them I'd still feel the same way. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.

I agree. You can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm.

The issue is that it’s costing US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.

My little secret is upon my recent retirement, I purchased a 15% ownership interest and took on some management of a sober living company. The simple fact is I was seeing the financials of a lot of different rehab/recovery businesses and the stupid amount of money they were making and decided to get in on it.

The company I’m associated with only does counseling and sober living, it’s what’s known as level 3.1 care. We are in the process of moving up to 3.4 which allows for fully monitored housing. One counselor can meet with up to 12 clients at a time in group. That time is billed through state Medicaid at $200 per client per hour. So we have one counselor, who makes $12 an hour bringing in $2,400 an hour in revenue. They then also have to submit individual counseling notes for each client. So it’s essentially $2,400 in revenue for about $120 in labor cost. You have two group sessions a day, plus individual sessions, plus group activities, etc. We have 4 counselors and generate $150,000 a month in billables. Our total overhead before distributions is under $30,000 a month. So we are averaging $120,000 a month in net income and we are the smallest possible spec, on the smallest flea, on the largest dog you have ever seen.

I had a client while still in banking that was clearing $2MM a month off of $6MM in gross revenue and they were doubling in size every 8 months. Another client who dealt with the highest level of care, basically the detox phase, had even higher margins. The government (taxpayers) are funding every single cent of the cost.

(07-20-2022 09:32 PM)banker Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 04:37 PM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 02:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The way I see it is that the cartels are just supplying the demand. They're good entrepreneurs, 'ats all.

Seriously, if there are stupid people using drugs with all its ill ramifications and they don't care, why should I. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry about them having fentyl in them. It's like playing Russian roulette...it's so simple.

I have no sympathy for drug users and if my kids/grandkids used them I'd still feel the same way. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.

I agree. You can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm.

The issue is that it’s costing US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.

My little secret is upon my recent retirement, I purchased a 15% ownership interest and took on some management of a sober living company. The simple fact is I was seeing the financials of a lot of different rehab/recovery businesses and the stupid amount of money they were making and decided to get in on it.

The company I’m associated with only does counseling and sober living, it’s what’s known as level 3.1 care. We are in the process of moving up to 3.4 which allows for fully monitored housing. One counselor can meet with up to 12 clients at a time in group. That time is billed through state Medicaid at $200 per client per hour. So we have one counselor, who makes $12 an hour bringing in $2,400 an hour in revenue. They then also have to submit individual counseling notes for each client. So it’s essentially $2,400 in revenue for about $120 in labor cost. You have two group sessions a day, plus individual sessions, plus group activities, etc. We have 4 counselors and generate $150,000 a month in billables. Our total overhead before distributions is under $30,000 a month. So we are averaging $120,000 a month in net income and we are the smallest possible spec, on the smallest flea, on the largest dog you have ever seen.

I had a client while still in banking that was clearing $2MM a month off of $6MM in gross revenue and they were doubling in size every 8 months. Another client who dealt with the highest level of care, basically the detox phase, had even higher margins. The government (taxpayers) are funding every single cent of the cost.

I have a damn huge problem with this because its just a damn government money grab...

What did the company do pick up some homeless person and call them counselor? At $12 dollars a damn hour its a damn joke to call someone "counselor" and and a ripoff to the government that's paying $2,400 an hour.

Honestly its discussing to be playing with people who are there to get sober with a $12 an hour "counselor". Honestly this should be as much of a crime as a doctor billing Medicaid for test not being ran. Hell maybe more than the person selling addicts the drugs.

And to be honest I never saw you as that type of a person.

Because of the amount of addicts I've known and died or spent time in prison from the disease and fought hard to get clean but lost the battle. To see a money grab and differently not giving a shiiit about those addicts or them getting or staying clean....

this chaps my ass in more ways than I could ever put into words. The f'ing 18 year stocking shelves at WalMart is making $15 an hour and you have the nerve to call them "counselor". With shiiit like this no one should be complaining about some person getting $135 a month in food stamps or EIC or any other "government money". I personally would rather my tax dollars be spent on someone that can use that money. Than on a money grabbing rich assshole clearing $2MM a month that most likely doesnt give a **** about results no more than the company you invested in and bragging about ripping off us tax payers and the addicts there to get clean.

As for your war on Mexico to stop drugs from coming into this country what are you suggesting America do about the most deadly and costly drugs and the cartels ( anheuser busch and friends) along with the pushers (your corner store) that make up the largest number of addicts our government is paying for?

(07-21-2022 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:32 PM)banker Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 04:37 PM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 02:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The way I see it is that the cartels are just supplying the demand. They're good entrepreneurs, 'ats all.

Seriously, if there are stupid people using drugs with all its ill ramifications and they don't care, why should I. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry about them having fentyl in them. It's like playing Russian roulette...it's so simple.

I have no sympathy for drug users and if my kids/grandkids used them I'd still feel the same way. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.

I agree. You can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm.

The issue is that it’s costing US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.

My little secret is upon my recent retirement, I purchased a 15% ownership interest and took on some management of a sober living company. The simple fact is I was seeing the financials of a lot of different rehab/recovery businesses and the stupid amount of money they were making and decided to get in on it.

The company I’m associated with only does counseling and sober living, it’s what’s known as level 3.1 care. We are in the process of moving up to 3.4 which allows for fully monitored housing. One counselor can meet with up to 12 clients at a time in group. That time is billed through state Medicaid at $200 per client per hour. So we have one counselor, who makes $12 an hour bringing in $2,400 an hour in revenue. They then also have to submit individual counseling notes for each client. So it’s essentially $2,400 in revenue for about $120 in labor cost. You have two group sessions a day, plus individual sessions, plus group activities, etc. We have 4 counselors and generate $150,000 a month in billables. Our total overhead before distributions is under $30,000 a month. So we are averaging $120,000 a month in net income and we are the smallest possible spec, on the smallest flea, on the largest dog you have ever seen.

I had a client while still in banking that was clearing $2MM a month off of $6MM in gross revenue and they were doubling in size every 8 months. Another client who dealt with the highest level of care, basically the detox phase, had even higher margins. The government (taxpayers) are funding every single cent of the cost.

I have a damn huge problem with this because its just a damn government money grab...

What did the company do pick up some homeless person and call them counselor? At $12 dollars a damn hour its a damn joke to call someone "counselor" and and a ripoff to the government that's paying $2,400 an hour.

Honestly its discussing to be playing with people who are there to get sober with a $12 an hour "counselor". Honestly this should be as much of a crime as a doctor billing Medicaid for test not being ran. Hell maybe more than the person selling addicts the drugs.

And to be honest I never saw you as that type of a person.

Because of the amount of addicts I've known and died or spent time in prison from the disease and fought hard to get clean but lost the battle. To see a money grab and differently not giving a shiiit about those addicts or them getting or staying clean....

this chaps my ass in more ways than I could ever put into words. The f'ing 18 year stocking shelves at WalMart is making $15 an hour and you have the nerve to call them "counselor". With shiiit like this no one should be complaining about some person getting $135 a month in food stamps or EIC or any other "government money". I personally would rather my tax dollars be spent on someone that can use that money. Than on a money grabbing rich assshole clearing $2MM a month that most likely doesnt give a **** about results no more than the company you invested in and bragging about ripping off us tax payers and the addicts there to get clean.

As for your war on Mexico to stop drugs from coming into this country what are you suggesting America do about the most deadly and costly drugs and the cartels ( anheuser busch and friends) along with the pushers (your corner store) that make up the largest number of addicts our government is paying for?

I think this highlights that a good intention can produce unintended consequences if accountability is not part of the program. I suspect that this is not the only abuse of taxpayer funds on a government supported program.

In regards to alcoholic beverages, I refer back to my previous statement that you can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm. Banning alcoholic beverages or smoking or any other activity with the risk of addiction will not stop determined people from doing it. The addicts have to decide themselves to stop it.

(07-21-2022 08:23 AM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  

(07-21-2022 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:32 PM)banker Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 04:37 PM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 02:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The way I see it is that the cartels are just supplying the demand. They're good entrepreneurs, 'ats all.

Seriously, if there are stupid people using drugs with all its ill ramifications and they don't care, why should I. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry about them having fentyl in them. It's like playing Russian roulette...it's so simple.

I have no sympathy for drug users and if my kids/grandkids used them I'd still feel the same way. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.

I agree. You can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm.

The issue is that it’s costing US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.

My little secret is upon my recent retirement, I purchased a 15% ownership interest and took on some management of a sober living company. The simple fact is I was seeing the financials of a lot of different rehab/recovery businesses and the stupid amount of money they were making and decided to get in on it.

The company I’m associated with only does counseling and sober living, it’s what’s known as level 3.1 care. We are in the process of moving up to 3.4 which allows for fully monitored housing. One counselor can meet with up to 12 clients at a time in group. That time is billed through state Medicaid at $200 per client per hour. So we have one counselor, who makes $12 an hour bringing in $2,400 an hour in revenue. They then also have to submit individual counseling notes for each client. So it’s essentially $2,400 in revenue for about $120 in labor cost. You have two group sessions a day, plus individual sessions, plus group activities, etc. We have 4 counselors and generate $150,000 a month in billables. Our total overhead before distributions is under $30,000 a month. So we are averaging $120,000 a month in net income and we are the smallest possible spec, on the smallest flea, on the largest dog you have ever seen.

I had a client while still in banking that was clearing $2MM a month off of $6MM in gross revenue and they were doubling in size every 8 months. Another client who dealt with the highest level of care, basically the detox phase, had even higher margins. The government (taxpayers) are funding every single cent of the cost.

I have a damn huge problem with this because its just a damn government money grab...

What did the company do pick up some homeless person and call them counselor? At $12 dollars a damn hour its a damn joke to call someone "counselor" and and a ripoff to the government that's paying $2,400 an hour.

Honestly its discussing to be playing with people who are there to get sober with a $12 an hour "counselor". Honestly this should be as much of a crime as a doctor billing Medicaid for test not being ran. Hell maybe more than the person selling addicts the drugs.

And to be honest I never saw you as that type of a person.

Because of the amount of addicts I've known and died or spent time in prison from the disease and fought hard to get clean but lost the battle. To see a money grab and differently not giving a shiiit about those addicts or them getting or staying clean....

this chaps my ass in more ways than I could ever put into words. The f'ing 18 year stocking shelves at WalMart is making $15 an hour and you have the nerve to call them "counselor". With shiiit like this no one should be complaining about some person getting $135 a month in food stamps or EIC or any other "government money". I personally would rather my tax dollars be spent on someone that can use that money. Than on a money grabbing rich assshole clearing $2MM a month that most likely doesnt give a **** about results no more than the company you invested in and bragging about ripping off us tax payers and the addicts there to get clean.

As for your war on Mexico to stop drugs from coming into this country what are you suggesting America do about the most deadly and costly drugs and the cartels ( anheuser busch and friends) along with the pushers (your corner store) that make up the largest number of addicts our government is paying for?

I think this highlights that a good intention can produce unintended consequences if accountability is not part of the program. I suspect that this is not the only abuse of taxpayer funds on a government supported program.

In regards to alcoholic beverages, I refer back to my previous statement that you can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm. Banning alcoholic beverages or smoking or any other activity with the risk of addiction will not stop determined people from doing it. The addicts have to decide themselves to stop it.

I agree with that 100% and my problem is our government is making felons out of some addicts and treating alcohol like its not a drug. Its every bit of a drug and more deadly and causes more damage than every drug addict that is in prison today is there for.

I know my statement could easily read as I'm for prohibition. I'm not and no matter how many laws the government puts on the books it will not stop addiction. No matter how many billions of dollars they spend on locking addicts up. It will not stop addictions. No matter how many times they try to make it their mission to stop "a" drug. All they are doing is opening the door for a cheaper, more deadly drug to take its place. History in this war on drugs has shown that to be 100% fact. Till a person gets to that point of wanting to stop you are not going to "law" them into it.

But I see it all the time where someone is taking a pill or even coke and they are called dope heads, scum, dregs of earth. While those same people doing the calling are putting a more deadly and costly drug into their body, daily. Those people don't believe Alcohol is a drug because their government doesn't classify it as one or in that class. There is no drug that causes more death or cost as much money to this country than alcohol. Not all combined

Sure, the addict has to want to quit for rehabilitation to be affective. But we can fight that war all day and night and will never win it.

It’s sadness, hopelessness, boredom, desperation and futility that drive people to take drugs. Why is the richest country in the world such a sad, hopeless, bored, desperate and futile place to live for millions of people?

Sure, you can blame the individuals (the symptoms of the disease) but we are destined to die of the greater disease if it isn’t identified and healed. We are not a healthy society. And sick societies don’t last long.

What we are seeing today isn’t the beginning of the breakdown. It’s the end. And the end is closer than most of us want to admit. And we’ve done it to ourselves.

(07-21-2022 04:54 PM)Todor Wrote:  Sure, the addict has to want to quit for rehabilitation to be affective. But we can fight that war all day and night and will never win it.

It’s sadness, hopelessness, boredom, desperation and futility that drive people to take drugs. Why is the richest country in the world such a sad, hopeless, bored, desperate and futile place to live for millions of people?

Sure, you can blame the individuals (the symptoms of the disease) but we are destined to die of the greater disease if it isn’t identified and healed. We are not a healthy society. And sick societies don’t last long.

What we are seeing today isn’t the beginning of the breakdown. It’s the end. And the end is closer than most of us want to admit. And we’ve done it to ourselves.

Oh its not just American society, the entire world is at the end of days.

All that's left is more chaos until the son of perdition takes power and bring it to a head.

America has played a key role in keeping the world from dissolving into chaos. As we collapse, the worst actors in the word will step in and drive the situation into something that makes WW2 look like an episode of little house on the prairie.

(07-21-2022 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:32 PM)banker Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 04:37 PM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 02:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The way I see it is that the cartels are just supplying the demand. They're good entrepreneurs, 'ats all.

Seriously, if there are stupid people using drugs with all its ill ramifications and they don't care, why should I. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry about them having fentyl in them. It's like playing Russian roulette...it's so simple.

I have no sympathy for drug users and if my kids/grandkids used them I'd still feel the same way. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.

I agree. You can’t stop a determined human from doing themselves harm.

The issue is that it’s costing US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.

My little secret is upon my recent retirement, I purchased a 15% ownership interest and took on some management of a sober living company. The simple fact is I was seeing the financials of a lot of different rehab/recovery businesses and the stupid amount of money they were making and decided to get in on it.

The company I’m associated with only does counseling and sober living, it’s what’s known as level 3.1 care. We are in the process of moving up to 3.4 which allows for fully monitored housing. One counselor can meet with up to 12 clients at a time in group. That time is billed through state Medicaid at $200 per client per hour. So we have one counselor, who makes $12 an hour bringing in $2,400 an hour in revenue. They then also have to submit individual counseling notes for each client. So it’s essentially $2,400 in revenue for about $120 in labor cost. You have two group sessions a day, plus individual sessions, plus group activities, etc. We have 4 counselors and generate $150,000 a month in billables. Our total overhead before distributions is under $30,000 a month. So we are averaging $120,000 a month in net income and we are the smallest possible spec, on the smallest flea, on the largest dog you have ever seen.

I had a client while still in banking that was clearing $2MM a month off of $6MM in gross revenue and they were doubling in size every 8 months. Another client who dealt with the highest level of care, basically the detox phase, had even higher margins. The government (taxpayers) are funding every single cent of the cost.

I have a damn huge problem with this because its just a damn government money grab...

What did the company do pick up some homeless person and call them counselor? At $12 dollars a damn hour its a damn joke to call someone "counselor" and and a ripoff to the government that's paying $2,400 an hour.

Honestly its discussing to be playing with people who are there to get sober with a $12 an hour "counselor". Honestly this should be as much of a crime as a doctor billing Medicaid for test not being ran. Hell maybe more than the person selling addicts the drugs.

And to be honest I never saw you as that type of a person.

Because of the amount of addicts I've known and died or spent time in prison from the disease and fought hard to get clean but lost the battle. To see a money grab and differently not giving a shiiit about those addicts or them getting or staying clean....

this chaps my ass in more ways than I could ever put into words. The f'ing 18 year stocking shelves at WalMart is making $15 an hour and you have the nerve to call them "counselor". With shiiit like this no one should be complaining about some person getting $135 a month in food stamps or EIC or any other "government money". I personally would rather my tax dollars be spent on someone that can use that money. Than on a money grabbing rich assshole clearing $2MM a month that most likely doesnt give a **** about results no more than the company you invested in and bragging about ripping off us tax payers and the addicts there to get clean.

As for your war on Mexico to stop drugs from coming into this country what are you suggesting America do about the most deadly and costly drugs and the cartels ( anheuser busch and friends) along with the pushers (your corner store) that make up the largest number of addicts our government is paying for?

You can feel however you want. About 90% of counselors in the business are recovering addicts. If you can stay two years sober, we pay for you to get licensed, which admittedly, is very easy to do. Our clients are past detox and past the institutional phase where they live somewhere they can’t leave. We are more in the encouragement, monitoring and reporting phase of treatment. The next stop after us is back into the world on your own. Our counselors aren’t trying to figure out what got you to where you were, more about giving a framework on why you don’t want to go back.

Americans aren’t doing their part either. Corruption in the military, border patrol, and customs let’s billions of dollars worth of drugs in a year. The few prosecuted cases are only the most blatant.

We occupied Afghanistan while the biggest surge of heroin was coming here. It wasn’t afghans capable of brining it here. But we had thousands of flights in and out. Hmmm.