(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:37 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Democrats are the new war hawks.

They’ve found a way to launder their (our) money into their own pockets.

The entire Congress is a brood of vipers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


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(05-15-2022 08:20 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:37 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Democrats are the new war hawks.

They’ve found a way to launder their (our) money into their own pockets.

The entire Congress is a brood of vipers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Iraq was entered because they thought Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against US or allies. So it was viewed as a defensive war (pre-emptive, unlike Afghanistan).

(05-15-2022 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:20 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Iraq was entered because they thought Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against US or allies. So it was viewed as a defensive war (pre-emptive, unlike Afghanistan).

Gotcha. When you first mentioned it with Afghan my mind automatically paired it with the Taliban and our reason for temporarily displacing them into the Afghan and Pakistani mountains until Biden could come save them, and donate billions in US military equipment to them for their troubles.


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(05-15-2022 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:20 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Iraq was entered because they thought Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against US or allies. So it was viewed as a defensive war (pre-emptive, unlike Afghanistan).

Bullshiitt....

keep telling yourself that but that was the excuse used. Not the reason. GWB was a hack that used the "excuse" to get his friends rich and the war hawks in the republican leadership knew what the real reason was. Its why working America never will fully trust the republicans.

(05-15-2022 09:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:20 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Iraq was entered because they thought Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against US or allies. So it was viewed as a defensive war (pre-emptive, unlike Afghanistan).

Bullshiitt....

keep telling yourself that but that was the excuse used. Not the reason. GWB was a hack that used the "excuse" to get his friends rich and the war hawks in the republican leadership knew what the real reason was. Its why working America never will fully trust the republicans.

Nah. You are just repeating the BS lie or some tin foil hat theory. Everyone believed he had weapons of mass destruction. And as the recent report blaming Gulf War Syndrome on our bombing Sarin stashes, he actually did have them.

We were already at war with him. He was firing at our planes in the no fly zone all the time.

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:37 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Democrats are the new war hawks.

They’ve found a way to launder their (our) money into their own pockets.

The entire Congress is a brood of vipers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

Korea and Vietnam were not moral wars. The U.S. fought those wars for self defense if you want to call Iraq and Afghanistan wars of "self defense". The Koreans and Vietnamese were arguably backed by a super power while Afghanistan and Iraq (Gulf War 2) were not. While terrorist groups are scary for sure, there was zero chance of any of these terrorist groups taking the U.S. over. Hell, legitimate border security along the southern border helps with the terrorist thread along with other clandestine ops to get those terrorist organizations. Evidently we succeeded in thwarting future terrorist attacks. Did those wars play a role in that? IDK, because terrorist orgs are supposed to transcend nation states.

The only war after Vietnam that we got into that seemed to align with our interests was Gulf War 1. That was GHWB. GWB was a dumb*** who got us into unnecessary wars in the ME and Afghanistan. Clinton was an idiot who bombed Iraq once and got us into Serbia for what appeared to be a moral reason but in reality was a way to take some heat off of him for the Lewinsky scandal.

(05-16-2022 09:41 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:37 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Democrats are the new war hawks.

They’ve found a way to launder their (our) money into their own pockets.

The entire Congress is a brood of vipers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

Korea and Vietnam were not moral wars. The U.S. fought those wars for self defense if you want to call Iraq and Afghanistan wars of "self defense". The Koreans and Vietnamese were arguably backed by a super power while Afghanistan and Iraq (Gulf War 2) were not. While terrorist groups are scary for sure, there was zero chance of any of these terrorist groups taking the U.S. over. Hell, legitimate border security along the southern border helps with the terrorist thread along with other clandestine ops to get those terrorist organizations. Evidently we succeeded in thwarting future terrorist attacks. Did those wars play a role in that? IDK, because terrorist orgs are supposed to transcend nation states.

The only war after Vietnam that we got into that seemed to align with our interests was Gulf War 1. That was GHWB. GWB was a dumb*** who got us into unnecessary wars in the ME and Afghanistan. Clinton was an idiot who bombed Iraq once and got us into Serbia for what appeared to be a moral reason but in reality was a way to take some heat off of him for the Lewinsky scandal.

Vietnam and Korea were not threats to the US. The terrorists in Afghanistan attacked us and Sadaam was a threat to attack us and he did attack Israel.

(05-15-2022 09:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:20 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Iraq was entered because they thought Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against US or allies. So it was viewed as a defensive war (pre-emptive, unlike Afghanistan).

Bullshiitt....

keep telling yourself that but that was the excuse used. Not the reason. GWB was a hack that used the "excuse" to get his friends rich and the war hawks in the republican leadership knew what the real reason was. Its why working America never will fully trust the republicans.

This is just ridiculous.

Maybe you should go back to pre-Iraq invasion and see what the democrats were saying.

There are hundreds of quotes from Democrats about WMD and how Bush needed to invade. In fact, most of the intelligence came from the Clinton admin.

(05-15-2022 10:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 09:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:20 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

I agree with everything except the Iraqi war being self defense in the way Afghanistan was. Those were two very different wars. The Iraq war was a combination of GWB wanting to finish what his father couldn’t, and a massive intelligence failure (Curveball).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Iraq was entered because they thought Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against US or allies. So it was viewed as a defensive war (pre-emptive, unlike Afghanistan).

Bullshiitt....

keep telling yourself that but that was the excuse used. Not the reason. GWB was a hack that used the "excuse" to get his friends rich and the war hawks in the republican leadership knew what the real reason was. Its why working America never will fully trust the republicans.

Nah. You are just repeating the BS lie or some tin foil hat theory. Everyone believed he had weapons of mass destruction. And as the recent report blaming Gulf War Syndrome on our bombing Sarin stashes, he actually did have them.

We were already at war with him. He was firing at our planes in the no fly zone all the time.

Bush wanted to finish his daddy's war and in doing so make a lot of friends very rich....

as for weapons of mass destruction, that goal post changed from secretly building a nuke. To chemical weapons when the US was proven wrong on the nukes. If Bush was put under the same microscope as President Trump. He would need a pardon or spending out his days in a federal prison. Where he probably belongs, if not for his own stupidity, then for being doped by the war/money hawks he surrounded himself with.

Bush wasted the life of a lot of young soldiers that didnt need to be lost. Personally I put that way ahead of what the current President is doing. So far its only DOLLARS the current idiot is costing us.

(05-16-2022 10:01 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-16-2022 09:41 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-15-2022 07:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  Democrats have always been into moral wars.
Wilson started us in WWI.

Truman got us in Korea. Eisenhower got us out.

JFK got us in Vietnam and LBJ escalated. Nixon got us out.

Clinton involved us in the Yugoslav wars and Kosovo war, which is part of why Putin is so paranoid. We did things to a Slavic Russian ally that we tell Putin he can't do now.

Obama/Biden/Hillary took out Qaddafi and turned a stable state that gave us no trouble into a failed state filled with terrorists. And with Russia and Turkey as the power brokers.

Wilson had no real justification for getting the U.S. in WW1 - I agree with that. It was about European empire building pure and simple.

I think the Korean and Vietnam wars were what everyone thought was the correct moves at the time. Stalin was trying to gobble up actual nations and on top of that was trying to spread Communism far and wide. Mao was trying to do the same. Given what was known then, it made sense to believe in the Domino Theory given the communists were doing everything in their power to fight against the U.S. on all fronts internationally.

The wars started after the Soviet collapse were purely partisan fvckery. No logic, reason nor strategic interests to do so.

I certainly thought Vietnam was correct at the time (no matter how criminally stupid LBJ prosecuted it). But it was still a "moral" war. In Afghanistan and Iraq it was considered self-defense. Gulf War I was basically economic. We didn't want Sadaam controlling Kuwait's oil.

Korea and Vietnam were not moral wars. The U.S. fought those wars for self defense if you want to call Iraq and Afghanistan wars of "self defense". The Koreans and Vietnamese were arguably backed by a super power while Afghanistan and Iraq (Gulf War 2) were not. While terrorist groups are scary for sure, there was zero chance of any of these terrorist groups taking the U.S. over. Hell, legitimate border security along the southern border helps with the terrorist thread along with other clandestine ops to get those terrorist organizations. Evidently we succeeded in thwarting future terrorist attacks. Did those wars play a role in that? IDK, because terrorist orgs are supposed to transcend nation states.

The only war after Vietnam that we got into that seemed to align with our interests was Gulf War 1. That was GHWB. GWB was a dumb*** who got us into unnecessary wars in the ME and Afghanistan. Clinton was an idiot who bombed Iraq once and got us into Serbia for what appeared to be a moral reason but in reality was a way to take some heat off of him for the Lewinsky scandal.

Vietnam and Korea were not threats to the US. The terrorists in Afghanistan attacked us and Sadaam was a threat to attack us and he did attack Israel.

They were threats to American interests and ultimately America itself. As more countries would become communist, the more dangerous the world would become for those who don't want to become communist states.