The hunt continues. Ukrainian blogger who has lived outside Ukraine arrested in Spain for treason on behalf of SBU. He is a journalist and had formerly run a political party.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-ar...h-treason/

(05-04-2022 10:57 PM)Todor Wrote:  NATO keeps growing toward Russia and then being mad at Russia for being on Natos borders. Russia hasn’t moved.

All the countries that NATO has added since 1989 (listed below) were invaded/occupied/dominated by the USSR at some point during the 1917-1991 era. They seem to be fearful that a similar fate awaits them again without NATO’s protection. The invasion of Ukraine probably was not very reassuring on that count.

East Germany
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Czech Rep.
Slovakia
Hungary
Bulgaria
Romania
parts of Yugoslavia
Albania

and now Finland is on deck — another country Stalin invaded.

Sweden is on deck, too, but they’re not in the same category.

(05-05-2022 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 10:57 PM)Todor Wrote:  NATO keeps growing toward Russia and then being mad at Russia for being on Natos borders. Russia hasn’t moved.

All the countries that NATO has added since 1989 (listed below) were invaded/occupied/dominated by the USSR at some point during the 1917-1991 era. They seem to be fearful that a similar fate awaits them again without NATO’s protection. The invasion of Ukraine probably was not very reassuring on that count.

East Germany
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Czech Rep.
Slovakia
Hungary
Bulgaria
Romania
parts of Yugoslavia
Albania

and now Finland is on deck — another country Stalin invaded.

Sweden is on deck, too, but they’re not in the same category.

Just an FYI, nearly all of those countries declared war on the Soviet Union during World War II. If the Soviet Union had not been attacked by fascist countries, they wouldn’t have to go there to rid those countries if Nazis in the first place.

You seem to have confused the sequence of events. If the fate that awaits them is declaring war on other countries and then being mad they got beat in the process, I have little sympathy. That was not the case in all countries you listed, but most.

Yes, the USSR scuffled over some small territories. Nothing big. In 1941 Finland declared war on them however. Romania, Bulgaria etc, all fought on the side of the Axis against the Soviets.

Countries that want to join far off alliances and allow themselves to be used as bases to attack Russia might have the same fate as those that joined with the Nazis.

(05-05-2022 08:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  Just an FYI, nearly all of those countries declared war on the Soviet Union during World War II. If the Soviet Union had not been attacked by fascist countries, they wouldn’t have to go there to rid those countries of Nazis in the first place.

You don’t seriously claim that Russia was attacked by any of those countries other than Germany, do you?

Quote:You seem to have confused the sequence of events. If the fate that awaits them is declaring war on other countries and then being mad they got beat in the process, I have little sympathy. That was not the case in all countries you listed, but most.

It’s not about having sympathy. It’s about understanding that if you’re a small country in Eastern Europe essentially faced with 2 national-security options — alignment with NATO or alignment with Russia — well, we see which option is more appealing to them.

(05-05-2022 06:47 PM)Todor Wrote:  The hunt continues. Ukrainian blogger who has lived outside Ukraine arrested in Spain for treason on behalf of SBU. He is a journalist and had formerly run a political party.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-ar...h-treason/

No good guys only propaganda and lies

(05-05-2022 08:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(05-05-2022 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 10:57 PM)Todor Wrote:  NATO keeps growing toward Russia and then being mad at Russia for being on Natos borders. Russia hasn’t moved.

All the countries that NATO has added since 1989 (listed below) were invaded/occupied/dominated by the USSR at some point during the 1917-1991 era. They seem to be fearful that a similar fate awaits them again without NATO’s protection. The invasion of Ukraine probably was not very reassuring on that count.

East Germany
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Czech Rep.
Slovakia
Hungary
Bulgaria
Romania
parts of Yugoslavia
Albania

and now Finland is on deck — another country Stalin invaded.

Sweden is on deck, too, but they’re not in the same category.

Just an FYI, nearly all of those countries declared war on the Soviet Union during World War II. If the Soviet Union had not been attacked by fascist countries, they wouldn’t have to go there to rid those countries if Nazis in the first place.

You seem to have confused the sequence of events. If the fate that awaits them is declaring war on other countries and then being mad they got beat in the process, I have little sympathy. That was not the case in all countries you listed, but most.

Poland was attacked by the Russians, who then murdered some 20,000 officers after Poland surrendered and tried to blame it on the Germans.
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were independent, having escaped Russia when the Bolsheviks took power. The USSR overran those countries, early in the war.
Bulgaria was overrun by the USSR in 1944 when they wouldn't side with the allies.
Romania did join the Germans in 1941 after the USSR had stolen their territory in 1940.
Hungary declared war on the USSR after 3 of their cities were bombed (although the Russians did not claim responsibility).
Czechoslovakia was absorbed by the Germans and didn't really exist during the war.
Yugoslavia was on the allies side and fought German occupation.
Albania was occupied by Italy.


So yes, some of those countries fought the USSR in WWII, but only Germany did so before attacked first by the USSR.

(05-05-2022 08:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(05-05-2022 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 10:57 PM)Todor Wrote:  NATO keeps growing toward Russia and then being mad at Russia for being on Natos borders. Russia hasn’t moved.

All the countries that NATO has added since 1989 (listed below) were invaded/occupied/dominated by the USSR at some point during the 1917-1991 era. They seem to be fearful that a similar fate awaits them again without NATO’s protection. The invasion of Ukraine probably was not very reassuring on that count.

East Germany
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Czech Rep.
Slovakia
Hungary
Bulgaria
Romania
parts of Yugoslavia
Albania

and now Finland is on deck — another country Stalin invaded.

Sweden is on deck, too, but they’re not in the same category.

Just an FYI, nearly all of those countries declared war on the Soviet Union during World War II. If the Soviet Union had not been attacked by fascist countries, they wouldn’t have to go there to rid those countries if Nazis in the first place.

You seem to have confused the sequence of events. If the fate that awaits them is declaring war on other countries and then being mad they got beat in the process, I have little sympathy. That was not the case in all countries you listed, but most.

Yes, the USSR scuffled over some small territories. Nothing big. In 1941 Finland declared war on them however. Romania, Bulgaria etc, all fought on the side of the Axis against the Soviets.

Countries that want to join far off alliances and allow themselves to be used as bases to attack Russia might have the same fate as those that joined with the Nazis.

Just an FYI---Russia's involvement in WWII was entirely by choice. They joined forces in an offensive war choice to conquer all of Europe---which backfired when they got back stabbed by the guy they believed shared their values and dreams. In WWII Poland never declared war on Russia. Russia never did either---they just invaded to adhere to the treaty they signed with Hitler. Russia demanded lands from Finland and invaded when Finland refused. Finland did not declare war on Russia and remained in negotiations on tyring to come up with a compromise on the lands right up until the moment Russians invaded. I dont think the Russians ever declared war either---If I remember correctly, they just invaded.

Sorry---but I have a tough time working up much sympathy for any nation who's leadership was willing to jump into bed with Hilter. They pretty much got what they deserved. That said----knowing Hitler was the greater evil----the US sent the far from innocent Russians lend-lease weapons to allow them to defend themselves against the aggressor nation---which coincidentally----is EXACTLY what we are doing currently for Ukraine.

(05-05-2022 08:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:  No good guys only propaganda and lies

I am with you there, Shere Khan. But we are still left with two irreducible facts: one country launched an invasion, and the other country suffered an invasion. That’s not the same thing.

Now, that doesn’t mean I want to give Ukraine Eleventy-billion dollars. Doesn’t mean I want Ukraine in NATO. Doesn’t mean I trust American media to report the story truthfully. But it does mean I want the invasion to fail. And thankfully, that has (so far) proved to be the case.

(05-05-2022 08:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  Yes, the USSR scuffled over some small territories. Nothing big. In 1941 Finland declared war on them however. Romania, Bulgaria etc, all fought on the side of the Axis against the Soviets.

Yes, Finland did declare war on the USSR in 1941. But they did so to try and reclaim territory taken from them by the Soviets in the Winter War of 1939. Some things never change, the Soviets launched the Winter War after an infamous false flag incident where they shelled a Russian village and blamed it on Finland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

(05-05-2022 09:03 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(05-05-2022 08:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  Yes, the USSR scuffled over some small territories. Nothing big. In 1941 Finland declared war on them however. Romania, Bulgaria etc, all fought on the side of the Axis against the Soviets.

Yes, Finland did declare war on the USSR in 1941. But they did so to try and reclaim territory taken from them by the Soviets in the Winter War of 1939. Some things never change, the Soviets launched the Winter War after an infamous false flag incident where they shelled a Russian village and blamed it on Finland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

I’m afraid it goes back much further than that too. However, Finland, by and large, is a good neutral neighbor. Joining nato and becoming a base to be used to attack Russia would be against their own interests at this time, IMO.

(05-05-2022 08:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(05-05-2022 07:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 10:57 PM)Todor Wrote:  NATO keeps growing toward Russia and then being mad at Russia for being on Natos borders. Russia hasn’t moved.

All the countries that NATO has added since 1989 (listed below) were invaded/occupied/dominated by the USSR at some point during the 1917-1991 era. They seem to be fearful that a similar fate awaits them again without NATO’s protection. The invasion of Ukraine probably was not very reassuring on that count.

East Germany
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Czech Rep.
Slovakia
Hungary
Bulgaria
Romania
parts of Yugoslavia
Albania

and now Finland is on deck — another country Stalin invaded.

Sweden is on deck, too, but they’re not in the same category.

Just an FYI, nearly all of those countries declared war on the Soviet Union during World War II. If the Soviet Union had not been attacked by fascist countries, they wouldn’t have to go there to rid those countries if Nazis in the first place.

You seem to have confused the sequence of events. If the fate that awaits them is declaring war on other countries and then being mad they got beat in the process, I have little sympathy. That was not the case in all countries you listed, but most.

Yes, the USSR scuffled over some small territories. Nothing big. In 1941 Finland declared war on them however. Romania, Bulgaria etc, all fought on the side of the Axis against the Soviets.

Countries that want to join far off alliances and allow themselves to be used as bases to attack Russia might have the same fate as those that joined with the Nazis.

Dude, you need to stop and check yourself before posting. You are becoming as BIG of a LIAR as Russians and Arabs. Get real USSR is no victim in past two WWs. The country is known best for exterminating its own Citizens. Russia has NEVER been anything close to a military might. They fed off of WW2 and now they are being exposed as the weak sister they are. My thinking is keep playing around with Japan and find out how a real military responds.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/27/asia/...index.html

Btw, by all indications of satellite feeds the Russian offensive has stalled out again. This time in the east. Logistics obviously is not the Russian strong suit.

(05-05-2022 09:00 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-05-2022 08:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:  No good guys only propaganda and lies

I am with you there, Shere Khan. But we are still left with two irreducible facts: one country launched an invasion, and the other country suffered an invasion. That’s not the same thing.

Now, that doesn’t mean I want to give Ukraine Eleventy-billion dollars. Doesn’t mean I want Ukraine in NATO. Doesn’t mean I trust American media to report the story truthfully. But it does mean I want the invasion to fail. And thankfully, that has (so far) proved to be the case.

Yep, I agree with you there. Two cesspool countries, but one cesspool country attacked and invaded the other cesspool country. Russia is definitely the aggressor and wrong, but I have little sympathy for Ukraine.

From the looks of things so far, both countries are losing big time--in different, but perhaps equally devastating ways. Ukraine is being destroyed, and the Russian military is exposing itself as so inept that Russia's ability to make others fear it is falling apart.