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News Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
Quote:The Ukrainian government is refusing to allow transgender women to leave the country along with the millions of women and children refugees who have been streaming into Poland and other European nations. Instead, Ukrainian border guards are turning them back and forcing them to return home to join the fight.

Their reasoning might sour some trans activists in the West: Ukraine's martial law requires all biological males between the ages of 18 and 60 to remain in the country and fight. And it makes no exceptions for trans women.

Even trans women who have been widely accepted by their communities as woman still carry passports identifying them as males, which is what border guards see when they try to cross the border. In most cases, trans women who have tried to flee have been turned back, according to the Italian newspaper La Corriere della Sera, Italy's largest-circulation newspaper.

The paper quoted a trans woman who shared her experience at the hands of the guards: "They are men...they must turn back and fight."

The story has been picked up by a handful of European newspapers, including the UK-based Guardian. Trans women who spoke with the two newspapers described "humiliating" searches by border guards, and other perceived depredations, before being denied further passage.

As strange hands searched her body and pulled back her hair to check if it was a wig, Judis looked at the faces of the Ukrainian border guards and felt fear and despair.

"Ukrainian border guards undress you and touch you everywhere," Judis says. "You can see on their faces they’re wondering ‘what are you?’ like you’re some kind of animal or something."

Judis is a transgender woman whose birth certificate defines her as female.

Legally, there is no reason why she should not be allowed to pass with the thousands of women who are crossing Ukrainian borders to safety every day.

Yet, on 12 March at about 4am, after a long and humiliating search, border guards determined she was a man and prevented her passage into Poland.

Since Ukraine enacted martial law on Feb. 24, it's estimated that hundreds of trans women have tried to cross the border. Many have been turned back. The trans activists who spoke with both papers have said that trans people have reason to flee, since they would likely face persecution if Russia seizes control of the country. The Guardian went as far as to

The International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association said Ukraine ranks 39th out of 49 European countries for its overall treatment of LGBTQ+ people. Gay marriage is not allowed in the country, and the Christian Orthodox Church considers homosexuality a sin. There are also no anti-discrimination laws to protect LGBTQ+ people.

Legally speaking, Ukraine starting recognizing trans women as women in 2017, with one important catch: they must undergo extensive psychiatric observation and a lengthy bureaucratic process before their assumed gender can be reflected on formal documents.

"Martial law says all males are obliged to serve in the military, so they can’t leave the country," says Olena Shevchenko, 39, a human rights defender and the chair of Insight, a Ukrainian LGBTQ+ organization and one of the few public organisations in the country that works with trans people. "Technically, the law applies to trans people as well, including both certified trans men and trans women who had not changed their documents. But it sounds like Ukrainian border guards are preventing even trans people with a valid certificate reflecting their new gender from leaving Ukraine, and nobody knows why."

Two trans women interviewed by the Guardian shared similar stories about border guards telling them to turn back and join the fight.

"'Go to the war', they replied, adding that more than 3 million people had already fled the country and they weren't going to let me out."

Alice, 24, a trans woman from Brovary, a town near Kyiv, recounted a similar experience. She and her wife, Helen, a 21-year-old who identifies as non-binary, were stopped by border guards during an attempt to cross into Poland.

"They took us to a building near the border crossing,” recounts Alice. "There were three officers in the room. They told us to take off our jackets. They checked our hands, arms, checked my neck to see if I had an Adam’s apple. They touched my breasts. After examining us, border guards told us we were men. We tried to explain our situation but they didn’t care."

Interestingly, the American press didn't pick up the story. Could this be because it might undermine the bright shiny (definitely not nazi-ish) new heroic image of the Ukrainian government, which has been the subject of almost unanimously positive coverage in the American press?

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03-23-2022 02:12 PM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
A lot of Jefferson Davises over there I see.
03-23-2022 02:13 PM
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No2rdame Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
Uh oh, how with the alphabet crowd who supports Ukraine respond to this? They're not buying the whole "man, I feel like a woman" argument to get out of fighting.
03-23-2022 02:16 PM
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bobdizole Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
[Image: 2922a934ba2e6492d1b829a1626db05a38f88d52.jpg]
03-23-2022 02:26 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
Well, those Ukies aren’t Danes. And those refugees aren’t dames…
03-23-2022 03:05 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 02:13 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  A lot of Jefferson Davises over there I see.

that was fake news

07-coffee3
03-23-2022 03:08 PM
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Gamenole Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
(03-23-2022 03:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 02:13 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  A lot of Jefferson Davises over there I see.

that was fake news

07-coffee3

Shere Khan is right about that, it was just a shawl. Pro-Union propaganda tried to spin it into a cross-dressing embarrassment for President Davis -

https://www.americanheritage.com/was-jef...ed-dress#1
03-23-2022 03:14 PM
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CliftonAve Online
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 02:26 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  [Image: 2922a934ba2e6492d1b829a1626db05a38f88d52.jpg]

I wonder if Colonel Potter will get canceled. Klinger was always trying to get discharged and the colonel saw right through it and told him his request was denied.
03-23-2022 03:18 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 03:14 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 03:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 02:13 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  A lot of Jefferson Davises over there I see.

that was fake news

07-coffee3

Shere Khan is right about that, it was just a shawl. Pro-Union propaganda tried to spin it into a cross-dressing embarrassment for President Davis -

https://www.americanheritage.com/was-jef...ed-dress#1

the great grandfather of a man I knew captured Davis and told him it was a lie,
03-23-2022 03:24 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
No, seriously — there are certain groups in the US who will remove the Ukraine flags from their Facebook profiles, and take the blue/yellow candles out of their windows because of this. Wait and see.
03-23-2022 03:38 PM
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memtigbb Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
Seriously. If I am ever on a big ass boat that hits a big ass iceberg. I will be taking a seat on the rescue boat and telling the women EFF OFF we want equality.
03-23-2022 03:47 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
So, we've got grandmothers over there picking up arms to defend their homes, yet some dudes in dresses want a free pass?

What kind of privilege is that?!?

Go fight weirdo's.
03-23-2022 03:47 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 03:38 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  No, seriously — there are certain groups in the US who will remove the Ukraine flags from their Facebook profiles, and take the blue/yellow candles out of their windows because of this. Wait and see.

Practically the only people with those symbols are people that know nothing about Ukraine. There’s very little positive about the country.
03-23-2022 06:58 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 06:58 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 03:38 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  No, seriously — there are certain groups in the US who will remove the Ukraine flags from their Facebook profiles, and take the blue/yellow candles out of their windows because of this. Wait and see.

Practically the only people with those symbols are people that know nothing about Ukraine. There’s very little positive about the country.
Agreed.

The candles and Facebook emojis are like the “Free Tibet” bumper stickers of the 1980s/90s. Utterly meaningless, utterly irrelevant to anything that exists in the real world.
03-23-2022 11:11 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 11:11 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 06:58 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 03:38 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  No, seriously — there are certain groups in the US who will remove the Ukraine flags from their Facebook profiles, and take the blue/yellow candles out of their windows because of this. Wait and see.

Practically the only people with those symbols are people that know nothing about Ukraine. There’s very little positive about the country.
Agreed.

The candles and Facebook emojis are like the “Free Tibet” bumper stickers of the 1980s/90s. Utterly meaningless, utterly irrelevant to anything that exists in the real world.

Makes me think of the cars absolutely covered in bumper stickers for every cause they have ever run across. Can’t help but cringe.
03-23-2022 11:13 PM
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blah Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
If you go off what you hear and see in the media, you would think that trans women were about 1/4 of the population, not the less than 1% in reality.
03-24-2022 09:28 PM
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No2rdame Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-23-2022 03:47 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  So, we've got grandmothers over there picking up arms to defend their homes, yet some dudes in dresses want a free pass?

What kind of privilege is that?!?

Go fight weirdo's.

Liberal privilege! And if you don't blindly agree that dudes in dresses should not have to fight then you're a racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, sexist, cis-gender Christian white male bigot!
03-25-2022 11:01 AM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight&...
(03-25-2022 11:01 AM)No2rdame Wrote:  
(03-23-2022 03:47 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  So, we've got grandmothers over there picking up arms to defend their homes, yet some dudes in dresses want a free pass?

What kind of privilege is that?!?

Go fight weirdo's.

Liberal privilege! And if you don't blindly agree that dudes in dresses should not have to fight then you're a racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, sexist, cis-gender Christian white male bigot!

I just read a meme from a neighborhood lady that keeps posting Occupy Democrats on FB where it asks whether you're a Jesus Christian or a Republican Christian. It made me laugh as this woman isn't even a Christian and I talk from the way they live their lives. They're CEO catholics. It's laughable to me that Democrats want to shame you by those memes. Most of the Liberal Democrats don't even believe in God or followed His tenets. If they did they wouldn't be Democrats.
03-25-2022 09:14 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight"
Some trans groups are claiming the Ukrainians are basically forcing these people out into the line of fire to be shot. If that’s true (and who knows) that is a nasty way to treat them.

I’d rather see them let out of the country to live their lives. They would probably not come back to Ukraine anyway If their goal in having them killed is to rid the country of them, they could have saved themselves the trouble and just let the Poles have them. I’m sure no commander wanted a transsexual assigned to his group.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2022 12:58 AM by Todor.)
03-26-2022 12:56 AM
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