Which is more egregious to the principal of democracy?

What Putin did or what Trudeau did?

(02-21-2022 04:31 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which is more egregious to the principal of democracy?

What Putin did or what Trudeau did?

All I know for sure is that none of this happens with Trump in the Whitehouse.

They're not an apples to apples comparison to start with, international law vs. domestic.

Putin has violated international law by retaking Crimea and supporting separatism on the sovereign territory of Ukraine in the Donbass for years. He is also violating an agreement Russia signed, the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 in which they and other countries guaranteed the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Trudeau has invoked the Emergency Act, which was passed by Canada's duly-enacted Parliament in 1988. The law requires Parliament approve or disapprove this within 7 days, and so far as I know they are still on track to hold that vote tonight as required. So at this point there is no violation of anything here, unless and until 1) the law requiring a vote isn't followed, that vote isn't respected, etc. and/or 2) the courts find a violation in either the declaration itself or in how the enhanced powers were deployed. Either of these scenarios could still potentially occur, and no doubt if the courts find a violation they will order damages or some other remedy in response. And if Parliament is unhappy with this use of the Emergency Act in any way, they have the power to amend or repeal the law entirely at any time to address that.

Which one should one care about more? Not saying the only option available is to pick either/or but which of these is a far more concerning and pressing issue?

Canada seems way worse to me. Maybe because it's closer to home. I never imagined the Canadians would go full-nazi on people for protesting for freedom.

We knew who/what the Russians are/were before they invaded but who in their right mind would ever think that the Canadian government would go full medal totalitarian? I could see a third world country imposing their will this way but an English speaking country who's not even near a third world country. This smells of a dictatorship in the making and Castro 2.0 needs to be kicked out of office and hopefully shamed. He needs a swift kick to the nuts...or ****** if he identifies as one.

(02-21-2022 05:16 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Canada seems way worse to me. Maybe because it's closer to home. I never imagined the Canadians would go full-nazi on people for protesting for freedom.

Bingo. Correct answer

(02-21-2022 05:02 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  They're not an apples to apples comparison to start with, international law vs. domestic.

Putin has violated international law by retaking Crimea and supporting separatism on the sovereign territory of Ukraine in the Donbass for years. He is also violating an agreement Russia signed, the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 in which they and other countries guaranteed the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Trudeau has invoked the Emergency Act, which was passed by Canada's duly-enacted Parliament in 1988. The law requires Parliament approve or disapprove this within 7 days, and so far as I know they are still on track to hold that vote tonight as required. So at this point there is no violation of anything here, unless and until 1) the law requiring a vote isn't followed, that vote isn't respected, etc. and/or 2) the courts find a violation in either the declaration itself or in how the enhanced powers were deployed. Either of these scenarios could still potentially occur, and no doubt if the courts find a violation they will order damages or some other remedy in response. And if Parliament is unhappy with this use of the Emergency Act in any way, they have the power to amend or repeal the law entirely at any time to address that.

The Enabling Act of 1933 was passed by the German legislature and also had an expiration date

A tyrant can become a tyrant through democratic legislation

Doesn't mean he isn't a tyrant

People in the areas "invaded" by Russia spoke russian, ate russian, felt russian (isn't this what really matters nowadays?)... Donbass has been more russian than ukrainian for a good while. There are people celebrating this moment in the region right now.

I don't even wanna talk about Canada. That place is as sad as Australia.

Canadians are just as dumb as most Americans. Most of them don't understand their own government structure. I heard a Canadian author explain how it works. The Prime Minister isn't even the top decision maker. Let that sink in.

CANADA IS NOT AND HAS NOT EVER BEEN A DEMOCRACY.

It wasn't a dictatorship until very recently, either.

(02-21-2022 08:05 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Canadians are just as dumb as most Americans. Most of them don't understand their own government structure. I heard a Canadian author explain how it works. The Prime Minister isn't even the top decision maker. Let that sink in.

CANADA IS NOT AND HAS NOT EVER BEEN A DEMOCRACY.

It wasn't a dictatorship until very recently, either.

Who then are you saying IS the top decision maker? The Cabinet led by the PM makes executive decisions. The PM is the Head of Government.

The Governor-General represents the Queen and is the Head of State, but like Her Majesty in the UK the Governor-General acts on the advice of the Government.

(02-21-2022 07:36 PM)Curumim Wrote:  People in the areas "invaded" by Russia spoke russian, ate russian, felt russian (isn't this what really matters nowadays?)... Donbass has been more russian than ukrainian for a good while. There are people celebrating this moment in the region right now.

I don't even wanna talk about Canada. That place is as sad as Australia.

That is EXACTLY how the seeds of WW2 began. Germany started out by claiming they were seizing territory that spoke German and really should be German.

We can't possibly be stupid enough to pretend this is as far as Putin goes and his intentions are pure as the driven snow.

He is slowly escalating his invasions one step at a time. First it was Crimea, now additional provinces in Ukraine. We all know he intends to take all of Ukraine and then move on the the eastern bloc.

(02-21-2022 08:30 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 07:36 PM)Curumim Wrote:  People in the areas "invaded" by Russia spoke russian, ate russian, felt russian (isn't this what really matters nowadays?)... Donbass has been more russian than ukrainian for a good while. There are people celebrating this moment in the region right now.

I don't even wanna talk about Canada. That place is as sad as Australia.

That is EXACTLY how the seeds of WW2 began. Germany started out by claiming they were seizing territory that spoke German and really should be German.

We can't possibly be stupid enough to pretend this is as far as Putin goes and his intentions are pure as the driven snow.

He is slowly escalating his invasions one step at a time. First it was Crimea, now additional provinces in Ukraine. We all know he intends to take all of Ukraine and then move on the the eastern bloc.

Yep. He’s going to take all of Ukraine before this administration leaves office. Likely before the Republicans take back control of Congress in November. Putin is playing the long game on Biden the same way he did Obama. Sadly, Biden is finger painting with his own feces while Psaki and the rest of the gang hang his pics on the Oval Office Refrigerator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

(02-21-2022 07:32 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 05:02 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  They're not an apples to apples comparison to start with, international law vs. domestic.

Putin has violated international law by retaking Crimea and supporting separatism on the sovereign territory of Ukraine in the Donbass for years. He is also violating an agreement Russia signed, the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 in which they and other countries guaranteed the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Trudeau has invoked the Emergency Act, which was passed by Canada's duly-enacted Parliament in 1988. The law requires Parliament approve or disapprove this within 7 days, and so far as I know they are still on track to hold that vote tonight as required. So at this point there is no violation of anything here, unless and until 1) the law requiring a vote isn't followed, that vote isn't respected, etc. and/or 2) the courts find a violation in either the declaration itself or in how the enhanced powers were deployed. Either of these scenarios could still potentially occur, and no doubt if the courts find a violation they will order damages or some other remedy in response. And if Parliament is unhappy with this use of the Emergency Act in any way, they have the power to amend or repeal the law entirely at any time to address that.

The Enabling Act of 1933 was passed by the German legislature and also had an expiration date

A tyrant can become a tyrant through democratic legislation

Doesn't mean he isn't a tyrant

True, and if Trudeau tries to keep the Emergency Act going for 4 years, strips the provinces of their powers, and outlaws the other political parties then he'll indeed become a dictator. At this point we're a VERY long way from any of that, and if the people of Canada are nearly as bothered as you are (polling suggests they aren't at this point) by his use of the Emergency Act, they can toss the Liberals out at the next election.

Motion passed to keep the emergency act.

Yay : 185
Nay : 151

Now goes the the Senate.

Lord have mercy on fellow Canadians

(02-21-2022 08:43 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Motion passed to keep the emergency act.

Yay : 185
Nay : 151

Now goes the the Senate.

Lord have mercy on fellow Canadians

Insanity.

Trudeau now knows he has carte blanche to go full totalitarian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

(02-21-2022 08:56 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 08:43 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Motion passed to keep the emergency act.

Yay : 185
Nay : 151

Now goes the the Senate.

Lord have mercy on fellow Canadians

Insanity.

Trudeau now knows he has carte blanche to go full totalitarian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

A guy with 31% of the vote, who aligned with a party of similar beliefs to create a 50 +1 majority, now has complete control of Canada.

It's incredibly frightening

It's not a question of what is worse; rather it is a question of what is more unexpected. After Obama's ceding of the Crimean Peninsula without pushback, Ukraine was ******. This is the next step in the process, and Putin is assuredly not kissing Ukraine before he ***** them again.

The Canadian situation is much more real to me. Same government allowed Leftist BLM and Antifa burn cities in North America with nothing but government indifference. But when the more-left workers of Canada united, apparently they were the "wrong" workers, and Trudeau and his thugs went all full fascist. The Canada situation of freezing bank assets is a hell of a lot more scary to me that what happens in the Donbass of Ukraine.