Quote:Joe Biden doesn’t seem to know how to deal with the situation between Russia and Ukraine.

Indeed, everything he does just seems to heighten the tension and move the dial more toward war between them.

He threw Ukraine under the bus early on, by waiving sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which helped Russia, increased EU dependence on Russian oil, and hurt the United States and Ukraine.

Then Biden seemed to greenlight aggression with careless words, by saying U.S. troops would be off the table in December and then talking about “minor incursions” not causing a significant response in January, then having to scramble to clean that up.

While he tells us that he threatens the toughest sanctions ever if Russia further invades Ukraine, there are a few problems with this approach. He’s not moving pro-actively to stop Putin first. He’s only threatening sanctions after Putin moves, as opposed to moving sanctions now to back Russia down from their threats. As Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said, then the sanctions would come too late. “If there’s a full-scale war tomorrow, why do we need sanctions afterward?” he asked. “I don’t think it’s fair.”

The Biden administration is threatening to hit some Russian banks, government-owned companies, and some imports with sanctions, saying that these threatened actions would be more than have been used against Russia in recent years.

But according to the Wall Street Journal:

Off the table, for now, are sanctions on oil and natural gas exports or disconnecting Russia from SWIFT, the basic infrastructure that facilitates financial transactions between banks across the world, said one of the officials.

In other words, the things that would hurt Russia where they lived aren’t being considered. And if we know this, then Russia knows they’re not on the table too.

I don’t get this. Why would you ever advertise that things are off the table, as the Biden team has been doing? That’s basically what he’s doing, if the sanctions he flashes around have no real teeth. We saw how well the nominal sanctions that Obama had in 2014 worked.

There are upsides and downsides to the imposition of sanctions. But the reason Biden may have done it was to kowtow to Germany, which has become dependent on its Russian oil. So, you don’t have all the NATO allies on the same page because Putin has already seduced Germany. If Biden is going to take things off the table, why doesn’t he just advertise to Putin: ‘Hey come on in, the water is fine’? And it was supposed to be President Donald Trump who was the Putin stooge? It’s really Biden who has bent over at every turn for Putin.

Meanwhile, Zelensky said Biden is stoking panic with his characterization of the threat as so imminent. Zelensky insists Biden needs to cool his jets in pushing the fear-porn. While there’s a threat, he says, he doesn’t think it’s as desperate as Biden is painting it ,and Zelensky knows better than Biden what’s happening in his country.

So, Biden needs to re-orient where he is at, get all NATO on the same page, and stand fully behind Ukraine: throw down some significant sanctions now to back them off. That’s what he should do. But he’s Biden, so don’t expect any move that makes sense.

Link

(01-29-2022 10:50 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Quote:Joe Biden doesn’t seem to know how to deal with the situation between Russia and Ukraine.

Indeed, everything he does just seems to heighten the tension and move the dial more toward war between them.

He threw Ukraine under the bus early on, by waiving sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which helped Russia, increased EU dependence on Russian oil, and hurt the United States and Ukraine.

Then Biden seemed to greenlight aggression with careless words, by saying U.S. troops would be off the table in December and then talking about “minor incursions” not causing a significant response in January, then having to scramble to clean that up.

While he tells us that he threatens the toughest sanctions ever if Russia further invades Ukraine, there are a few problems with this approach. He’s not moving pro-actively to stop Putin first. He’s only threatening sanctions after Putin moves, as opposed to moving sanctions now to back Russia down from their threats. As Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said, then the sanctions would come too late. “If there’s a full-scale war tomorrow, why do we need sanctions afterward?” he asked. “I don’t think it’s fair.”

The Biden administration is threatening to hit some Russian banks, government-owned companies, and some imports with sanctions, saying that these threatened actions would be more than have been used against Russia in recent years.

But according to the Wall Street Journal:

Off the table, for now, are sanctions on oil and natural gas exports or disconnecting from SWIFT, the basic infrastructure that facilitates financial transactions between banks across the world, said one of the officials.

In other words, the things that would hurt Russia where they lived aren’t being considered. And if we know this, then Russia knows they’re not on the table too.

I don’t get this. Why would you ever advertise that things are off the table, as the Biden team has been doing? That’s basically what he’s doing, if the sanctions he flashes around have no real teeth. We saw how well the nominal sanctions that Obama had in 2014 worked.

There are upsides and downsides to the imposition of sanctions. But the reason Biden may have done it was to kowtow to Germany, which has become dependent on its Russian oil. So, you don’t have all the NATO allies on the same page because Putin has already seduced Germany. If Biden is going to take things off the table, why doesn’t he just advertise to Putin: ‘Hey come on in, the water is fine’? And it was supposed to be President Donald Trump who was the Putin stooge? It’s really Biden who has bent over at every turn for Putin.

Meanwhile, Zelensky said Biden is stoking panic with his characterization of the threat as so imminent. Zelensky insists Biden needs to cool his jets in pushing the fear-porn. While there’s a threat, he says, he doesn’t think it’s as desperate as Biden is painting it ,and Zelensky knows better than Biden what’s happening in his country.

So, Biden needs to re-orient where he is at, get all NATO on the same page, and stand fully behind Ukraine: throw down some significant sanctions now to back them off. That’s what he should do. But he’s Biden, so don’t expect any move that makes sense.

Link

Russia is already heavily sanctioned, and they have over come all of them with ease. Nothing makes me believe that more sanctions will have any affect. Ukraine doesn't want Russian oil sanctioned, because they are stealing so much of in transit, they would have to start paying. Thats why Russia built a pipeline directly to Germany.

The west tried cutting off food imports to try to starve them and all it did was cause them to rebuild their agriculture sector. At one point, it was simply cheaper and easier to import lots of food stuffs than to do the necessary investments. Now they have invested and cut out nearly all western imports and are now the worlds largest wheat exporter.

The rebirth of Russian agriculture has lead to a rebirth of the agriculture equipment industry too, which they are now a moderately big exporter of. The equipment, all with cheap grain and oil has numerous poorer countries doing lots of business with Russia. You could hurt those countries simply trying to feed their people and keep the lights on, but it won't win any friends in the process and will continue to push more countries to be linked more heavily to the Russian economy. Russia treats them fairly, and many of them have a long history of friendship with the Soviet Union and will not back down from this relationship easily, especially not to their own detriment.

If the US wants to sanction Russian oil, they will sell it to China. China needs it, Russia has the pipelines, and no one can stop them easily. China will stop buying as much from the middle east, and those exporters will then supply Germany and the end result will be nothing.

MasterCard and Visa temporarily stopped supporting transactions in Russia, only to find out that the Russian banks own systems were already created and in place, waiting to be switched on. And indeed that system is now functioning and western banks aren't getting much in fees anymore, and that bit of leverage is also gone forever.

There is already a SWIFT replacement in place, so that will not work/help either. It would be an inconvenience, nothing more. Russia has taken decades of threats seriously and has planned for the worst. There is little than be done to them that could not be considered practically a declaration of war, which is what the US claims they don't want.

People can call Putin a dictator or say what they want about Russia, but they have a system in place to protect themselves from outside threats, and that is exactly what any good government should be doing. The US is mad that there is a country that doesn't cower before them, but Russia keeps getting stronger and better defended.

(01-29-2022 11:18 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-29-2022 10:50 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Quote:Joe Biden doesn’t seem to know how to deal with the situation between Russia and Ukraine.

Indeed, everything he does just seems to heighten the tension and move the dial more toward war between them.

He threw Ukraine under the bus early on, by waiving sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which helped Russia, increased EU dependence on Russian oil, and hurt the United States and Ukraine.

Then Biden seemed to greenlight aggression with careless words, by saying U.S. troops would be off the table in December and then talking about “minor incursions” not causing a significant response in January, then having to scramble to clean that up.

While he tells us that he threatens the toughest sanctions ever if Russia further invades Ukraine, there are a few problems with this approach. He’s not moving pro-actively to stop Putin first. He’s only threatening sanctions after Putin moves, as opposed to moving sanctions now to back Russia down from their threats. As Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said, then the sanctions would come too late. “If there’s a full-scale war tomorrow, why do we need sanctions afterward?” he asked. “I don’t think it’s fair.”

The Biden administration is threatening to hit some Russian banks, government-owned companies, and some imports with sanctions, saying that these threatened actions would be more than have been used against Russia in recent years.

But according to the Wall Street Journal:

Off the table, for now, are sanctions on oil and natural gas exports or disconnecting from SWIFT, the basic infrastructure that facilitates financial transactions between banks across the world, said one of the officials.

In other words, the things that would hurt Russia where they lived aren’t being considered. And if we know this, then Russia knows they’re not on the table too.

I don’t get this. Why would you ever advertise that things are off the table, as the Biden team has been doing? That’s basically what he’s doing, if the sanctions he flashes around have no real teeth. We saw how well the nominal sanctions that Obama had in 2014 worked.

There are upsides and downsides to the imposition of sanctions. But the reason Biden may have done it was to kowtow to Germany, which has become dependent on its Russian oil. So, you don’t have all the NATO allies on the same page because Putin has already seduced Germany. If Biden is going to take things off the table, why doesn’t he just advertise to Putin: ‘Hey come on in, the water is fine’? And it was supposed to be President Donald Trump who was the Putin stooge? It’s really Biden who has bent over at every turn for Putin.

Meanwhile, Zelensky said Biden is stoking panic with his characterization of the threat as so imminent. Zelensky insists Biden needs to cool his jets in pushing the fear-porn. While there’s a threat, he says, he doesn’t think it’s as desperate as Biden is painting it ,and Zelensky knows better than Biden what’s happening in his country.

So, Biden needs to re-orient where he is at, get all NATO on the same page, and stand fully behind Ukraine: throw down some significant sanctions now to back them off. That’s what he should do. But he’s Biden, so don’t expect any move that makes sense.

Link

Russia is already heavily sanctioned, and they have over come all of them with ease. Nothing makes me believe that more sanctions will have any affect. Ukraine doesn't want Russian oil sanctioned, because they are stealing so much of in transit, they would have to start paying. Thats why Russia built a pipeline directly to Germany.

The west tried cutting off food imports to try to starve them and all it did was cause them to rebuild their agriculture sector. At one point, it was simply cheaper and easier to import lots of food stuffs than to do the necessary investments. Now they have invested and cut out nearly all western imports and are now the worlds largest wheat exporter.

The rebirth of Russian agriculture has lead to a rebirth of the agriculture equipment industry too, which they are now a moderately big exporter of. The equipment, all with cheap grain and oil has numerous poorer countries doing lots of business with Russia. You could hurt those countries simply trying to feed their people and keep the lights on, but it won't win any friends in the process and will continue to push more countries to be linked more heavily to the Russian economy. Russia treats them fairly, and many of them have a long history of friendship with the Soviet Union and will not back down from this relationship easily, especially not to their own detriment.

If the US wants to sanction Russian oil, they will sell it to China. China needs it, Russia has the pipelines, and no one can stop them easily. China will stop buying as much from the middle east, and those exporters will then supply Germany and the end result will be nothing.

MasterCard and Visa temporarily stopped supporting transactions in Russia, only to find out that the Russian banks own systems were already created and in place, waiting to be switched on. And indeed that system is now functioning and western banks aren't getting much in fees anymore, and that bit of leverage is also gone forever.

There is already a SWIFT replacement in place, so that will not work/help either. It would be an inconvenience, nothing more. Russia has taken decades of threats seriously and has planned for the worst. There is little than be done to them that could not be considered practically a declaration of war, which is what the US claims they don't want.

People can call Putin a dictator or say what they want about Russia, but they have a system in place to protect themselves from outside threats, and that is exactly what any good government should be doing. The US is mad that there is a country that doesn't cower before them, but Russia keeps getting stronger and better defended.

Sanctions are largely a joke. SWIFT is a legit threat---and while you are correct, there are alternatives to SWIFT---not everyone is willing to go there---so there will be a cost to the Russian economy. That said---dictators dont really care if their people have a little tougher time of it. Putin will be fine and he's not concerned that he will be seriously challenged. As long as it remains very dangerous to ones health and well being to challenge Putin politically----he has no real reason to concern himself with sanctions effect on his people. Even the toughest sanctions are only expected to affect his economy modestly (5% to 10% is the number Ive seen thrown around). And those numbers assume bumbling Biden can get all of NATO on the same page with severe sanctions----which seems unlikely as the OP article points out. Sanctions against Iran have had a much larger effect on the Iranian economy----yet it really hasnt been all that effective at driving them toward the desired behavior. Not sure why anyone thinks it will work against a more powerful nation where sanctions will have a more marginal economic impact.