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News Returning to Afghanistan: Kabul Surrounded
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memtigbb Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-07-2021 03:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:46 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont think Crenshaw is really wrong here---but why do WE need to do it. Its not our country. For instance, why didnt we leave behind a enough air power and trained Afghan pilots to handle their own air strikes? I mean---this isnt WWIII. They dont need F-22's and B-52's. Old gun ships, Cobras, and cheap propeller planes with modern missiles and guided bombs could do it. There are cheap jet ground attack aircraft that can handle the job. Propeller aircraft, drones, Old Harriers or even newer Textron Scorpion (very cheap ground attack aircraft) are capable of delivering precision bomb and missile strikes using laser/GPS guided munitions in a low threat anti-aircraft environment. There is no reason we didnt leave behind a robust Afghan Air Force more than capable of handling the job.
So why didnt we leave them enough of that kind of aircraft and pilots to handle the job? Why didnt we train enough aircraft mechanics to keep what they have operational?
They only have about 30 small ground attack prop-driven planes and maybe 75 or so helicopters that are capable of ground attack. There are questions as to whether they can keep even this small air force operational due to the exit of western ground crews and contractors. We've been there 20 years---and knew we were getting out for at least the last 10 years---and nobody thought to train Afghan aircraft mechanics? Really?

Umm, because the people calling the shots are idiots?

We should have been in and out in 2 years, 3 max. Go in full bore, no stupid you-can't-shoot-back-until-you-are-dead ROEs, kill everybody who needs killing, break everything that needs breaking, tell the folks left in charge that if they screw up we will be back to kill them, GTFO, and stay TFO.

100%. That is exactly what we shoulda done and left with a "if you think this was bad, make us come back and see what happens" message

I think we thought we'd be making the same mistake that spawned 911 if we just went in big---broke stuff---and then left. We should have known that wouldnt work either (see the Russians in Charlie Wilson's War). However, if your going to try 20 years of nation building---and then leave---at least leave the good guys the equipment and training they need to keep Al-Qeda types from gaining control again. You actually have regular citizens grabbing rifles--willing defend the life they now see as possible. I think there are enough people with the will to defend their new found freedom---but its not looking good for those folks.

Honestly---a decent little air force that can bomb guys with no real anti-aircraft defense would have been an obvious investment. These kinds of career bureaucrats with absolutely no ability to anticipate obvious future issues is exactly why I want NOTHING to do with national healthcare.

I really like that movie.. but still. If you were a part of an oppressed nation, being invaded and some country gave you all the weapons you needed to throw off the invaders.. you would be mad at that country for not giving you everything else as well? Sure, we could have helped them with infrastructure, but how could they possibly be mad at us? If not for us, they would be speaking Russian right now. I dont buy the excuses at all.

And Al Qaeda types will always end up with control over there, because no matter how much they deny it, that is what the people in the middle-east want.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2021 05:59 PM by memtigbb.)
08-07-2021 05:56 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-07-2021 05:56 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 03:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:46 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont think Crenshaw is really wrong here---but why do WE need to do it. Its not our country. For instance, why didnt we leave behind a enough air power and trained Afghan pilots to handle their own air strikes? I mean---this isnt WWIII. They dont need F-22's and B-52's. Old gun ships, Cobras, and cheap propeller planes with modern missiles and guided bombs could do it. There are cheap jet ground attack aircraft that can handle the job. Propeller aircraft, drones, Old Harriers or even newer Textron Scorpion (very cheap ground attack aircraft) are capable of delivering precision bomb and missile strikes using laser/GPS guided munitions in a low threat anti-aircraft environment. There is no reason we didnt leave behind a robust Afghan Air Force more than capable of handling the job.
So why didnt we leave them enough of that kind of aircraft and pilots to handle the job? Why didnt we train enough aircraft mechanics to keep what they have operational?
They only have about 30 small ground attack prop-driven planes and maybe 75 or so helicopters that are capable of ground attack. There are questions as to whether they can keep even this small air force operational due to the exit of western ground crews and contractors. We've been there 20 years---and knew we were getting out for at least the last 10 years---and nobody thought to train Afghan aircraft mechanics? Really?

Umm, because the people calling the shots are idiots?

We should have been in and out in 2 years, 3 max. Go in full bore, no stupid you-can't-shoot-back-until-you-are-dead ROEs, kill everybody who needs killing, break everything that needs breaking, tell the folks left in charge that if they screw up we will be back to kill them, GTFO, and stay TFO.

100%. That is exactly what we shoulda done and left with a "if you think this was bad, make us come back and see what happens" message

I think we thought we'd be making the same mistake that spawned 911 if we just went in big---broke stuff---and then left. We should have known that wouldnt work either (see the Russians in Charlie Wilson's War). However, if your going to try 20 years of nation building---and then leave---at least leave the good guys the equipment and training they need to keep Al-Qeda types from gaining control again. You actually have regular citizens grabbing rifles--willing defend the life they now see as possible. I think there are enough people with the will to defend their new found freedom---but its not looking good for those folks.

Honestly---a decent little air force that can bomb guys with no real anti-aircraft defense would have been an obvious investment. These kinds of career bureaucrats with absolutely no ability to anticipate obvious future issues is exactly why I want NOTHING to do with national healthcare.

I really like that movie.. but still. If you were a part of an oppressed nation, being invaded and some country gave you all the weapons you needed to throw off the invaders.. you would be mad at that country for not giving you everything else as well? Sure, we could have helped them with infrastructure, but how could they possibly be mad at us? If not for us, they would be speaking Russian right now. I dont buy the excuses at all.

And Al Qaeda types will always end up with control over there, because no matter how much they deny it, that is what the people in the middle-east want.

No one can help them but themselves. At some point a winner will emerge. Its going to be ugly and the death toll will be high. It is however not our problem. Its time we stop being the worlds police force. Keep the seas safe for commerce and stand with our allies when needed. Other than that? Not our concern unless we are directly threatened or attacked.
08-07-2021 07:44 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Way to go, Slo.

Who could have ever seen this outcome...besides everyone with an IQ over 40.

You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

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08-07-2021 09:12 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-07-2021 09:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Way to go, Slo.

Who could have ever seen this outcome...besides everyone with an IQ over 40.

You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

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Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban in Feb of 2020 that included a May 2021 date to withdraw from Afghanistan.
08-08-2021 07:14 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 07:14 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 09:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Way to go, Slo.

Who could have ever seen this outcome...besides everyone with an IQ over 40.

You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban in Feb of 2020 that included a May 2021 date to withdraw from Afghanistan.
U_of_E rarely speaks the truth, so I want to acknowledge that this is one of the rare occasions. Trump absolutely would’ve done something like this (i.e., total withdrawal or very, very close to it) if he were still in office. No doubt about that at all, imho.
08-08-2021 07:45 AM
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BartlettTigerFan Online
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Post: #26
RE: Returning to Afganistan
So? They are not our responsibility.
08-08-2021 08:13 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-07-2021 11:07 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  Afghanistan needs to deal with Afghanistan. We have our own country to worry about.

Yeah. As long as their government isn't allowing terrorism against others, we shouldn't care what type of government they have.

The country is a logistical nightmare. To even supply our troops requires the assistance of Pakistan, China, Iran or Russia. And there are mountains all over.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2021 10:57 AM by bullet.)
08-08-2021 10:56 AM
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chrisd11 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Returning to Afganistan
There are only 2 solutions there:

1. Get out and stay out.

2. Nuke the entire country and/or region into a cloud of dust.
08-08-2021 11:23 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 11:23 AM)chrisd11 Wrote:  There are only 2 solutions there:

1. Get out and stay out.

2. Nuke the entire country and/or region into a cloud of dust.
More or less, yeah.

Seriously, option #2 could be a little less harsh. But even a non-nuclear version of #2 would still involve killing a lot of people, including (but not only) people who really have no beef with us and are just trying to survive. The America of 1941-’45 was ready, willing, and able to do that in order to win a war. The America of today is unready and unwilling.

Which means: option #1.
08-08-2021 02:35 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 11:23 AM)chrisd11 Wrote:  There are only 2 solutions there:
1. Get out and stay out.
2. Nuke the entire country and/or region into a cloud of dust.

"Never fight a war that you don't intend to win," pretty much leaves you with those two options, although #2 could be conventional rather than nuclear.
08-08-2021 02:38 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 07:14 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 09:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Way to go, Slo.

Who could have ever seen this outcome...besides everyone with an IQ over 40.

You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban in Feb of 2020 that included a May 2021 date to withdraw from Afghanistan.
That treaty said the taliban had cwrtain obligations. We can discuss all day whether the Trump admin would have said they met them as the Biden admin did

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08-08-2021 04:09 PM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 04:09 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-08-2021 07:14 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 09:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Way to go, Slo.

Who could have ever seen this outcome...besides everyone with an IQ over 40.

You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban in Feb of 2020 that included a May 2021 date to withdraw from Afghanistan.
That treaty said the taliban had cwrtain obligations. We can discuss all day whether the Trump admin would have said they met them as the Biden admin did

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump literally praised Biden for the withdrawal in April, and criticized him for not doing it fast enough.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/18/politics/...index.html
08-08-2021 04:45 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 04:45 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-08-2021 04:09 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-08-2021 07:14 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 09:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban in Feb of 2020 that included a May 2021 date to withdraw from Afghanistan.
That treaty said the taliban had cwrtain obligations. We can discuss all day whether the Trump admin would have said they met them as the Biden admin did

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump literally praised Biden for the withdrawal in April, and criticized him for not doing it fast enough.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/18/politics/...index.html


I want the heck out and am glad we are leaving. My gripe is all the billions we spent and we didnt bother to set aside a little money for a cheap little air force that could prop up the democracy we left behind. Its the typical poor management and planning that we Americans put up with---and we shouldnt.
08-08-2021 04:59 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-07-2021 01:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont think Crenshaw is really wrong here---but why do WE need to do it. Its not our country. For instance, why didnt we leave behind a enough air power and trained Afghan pilots to handle their own air strikes? I mean---this isnt WWIII. They dont need F-22's and B-52's. Old gun ships, Cobras, and cheap propeller planes with modern missiles and guided bombs could do it. There are cheap jet ground attack aircraft that can handle the job. Propeller aircraft, drones, Old Harriers or even newer Textron Scorpion (very cheap ground attack aircraft) are capable of delivering precision bomb and missile strikes using laser/GPS guided munitions in a low threat anti-aircraft environment. There is no reason we didnt leave behind a robust Afghan Air Force more than capable of handling the job.
So why didnt we leave them enough of that kind of aircraft and pilots to handle the job? Why didnt we train enough aircraft mechanics to keep what they have operational?
They only have about 30 small ground attack prop-driven planes and maybe 75 or so helicopters that are capable of ground attack. There are questions as to whether they can keep even this small air force operational due to the exit of western ground crews and contractors. We've been there 20 years---and knew we were getting out for at least the last 10 years---and nobody thought to train Afghan aircraft mechanics? Really?

Umm, because the people calling the shots are idiots?

We should have been in and out in 2 years, 3 max. Go in full bore, no stupid you-can't-shoot-back-until-you-are-dead ROEs, kill everybody who needs killing, break everything that needs breaking, tell the folks left in charge that if they screw up we will be back to kill them, GTFO, and stay TFO.
Actually, the Northern Alliance won the war in months, before we provided any troops on the ground. Then we decided to nation build and do a hopeless effort to permanently wipe out an insurgency.
08-08-2021 07:54 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 11:23 AM)chrisd11 Wrote:  There are only 2 solutions there:

1. Get out and stay out.

2. Nuke the entire country and/or region into a cloud of dust.

We could have destroyed the Taliban without nukes. But not at an acceptable cost in civilian casualties. It would have been massive.
08-08-2021 07:58 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 04:45 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-08-2021 04:09 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-08-2021 07:14 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 09:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-07-2021 12:58 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  You do realize Trump drove the Afghanistan withdrawal? He was trying to get out by inauguration.
Wanted out but didn't leave. Probably because he was smart enough to listen to someone that told him this would happen.

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban in Feb of 2020 that included a May 2021 date to withdraw from Afghanistan.
That treaty said the taliban had cwrtain obligations. We can discuss all day whether the Trump admin would have said they met them as the Biden admin did

Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

Trump literally praised Biden for the withdrawal in April, and criticized him for not doing it fast enough.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/18/politics/...index.html
It's a bone headed move. Trump was wrong to praise Biden for following through with the treaty when ita clear the taliban did not hold up their end of the bargain.

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08-08-2021 08:20 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-08-2021 07:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-08-2021 11:23 AM)chrisd11 Wrote:  There are only 2 solutions there:

1. Get out and stay out.

2. Nuke the entire country and/or region into a cloud of dust.

We could have destroyed the Taliban without nukes. But not at an acceptable cost in civilian casualties. It would have been massive.

The sad truth no one wants to face is to control Afghanistan you have to take out the taliban, to take out the taliban we would have had to invade large sections of Pakistan. Assuming the Pakistanis would never allow this(they wouldn't because large portions of the ISI support the Taliban) we would have been risking war with a nuclear power that gets a little too cozy with terrorists.

Afghanistan is a shithole country that will always be under some dictatorship because that's the only form of government that can control that tribal wasteland. Leave and never look back
08-09-2021 08:56 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Returning to Afganistan
(08-09-2021 08:56 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  Afghanistan is a shithole country that will always be under some dictatorship because that's the only form of government that can control that tribal wasteland. Leave and never look back

So 1) go in there without absurd you-can't-shoot-back-until-you-are-dead ROEs, 2) kill all the ones who need killing, 3) break all their toys, 4) tell whatever dictatorial group ends up in power that if they allow similar misbehaviour then we will be back to kill them, 5) GTFO, and 6) stay TFO.

We didn't do 1), 2), 3), 4), 5), or 6). 0 for 6 is a total waste of time, money, and more importantly lives and limbs of America's finest fighting men and women.
08-09-2021 10:42 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Returning to Afganistan
08-09-2021 02:05 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Returning to Afganistan
How US Tax Dollars Were Squandered on Fraud and Waste in Afghanistan


Quote:For almost two decades, the U.S. taxpayer has forked out close to two trillion dollars – around three thousand dollars per person – on efforts to bring about a peaceful and prosperous Afghanistan. But as the final contingency of U.S. troops prepares to fly home in the coming weeks, even as the Taliban amplifies its bloodletting across the beleaguered nation, controversy swirls as to what went wrong and how so much money could be disseminated and disappeared.

Since 2002, some $144 billion was made available for Afghanistan reconstruction, according to the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan (SIGAR), which was established in 2008 in a bid to monitor waste and fraud. Since then, billions – mainly from the U.S. Department of Defense budget – was devoted to projects to construct and bankroll critical infrastructure and institutions ranging from hotels and hospitals to prisons, schools, roads, bridges, and military bases – but the waste continued, despite repeated reports and red-flagging from the watchdog, which is led by John Sopko.

SIGAR has identified more than $20 billion in waste, and that figure is believed to be on the highly modest side.

In his addresses to Congress this year, Sopko pointed out that the U.S. spent billions of taxpayer dollars on projects without first consulting Afghan officials and locals to whether the initiative was either wanted or needed. As a result, at least $2.4 billion was lost to projects that were abandoned, destroyed, or never got off the ground. In comparison, as per SIGAR, only $342 million worth of projects were considered to be “in good condition.”

Last week, Sopko painted a bleak picture of the Afghan aid situation going forward. While the U.S. government has pledged to keep propping up the Kabul leadership and the Afghan forces, it remains unclear who and how will watch over how that money is spent with the SIGAR team moving to more off-site evaluations. As it stands, $6.7 billion in U.S. monies is awaiting dissemination across the various sectors in Afghanistan.

So looking back, what are some of the most flagrant cases of squandered U.S. dollars?

In one case, roughly $10 billion was dished out for mostly counter-narcotics and stabilization initiatives. Nonetheless, Afghanistan still supplies more than 80 percent of the world’s heroin and opium, as well as meth. The drug trade remains one of the Taliban’s primary sources of income.

Moreover, more than $500 billion has been compiled in interest, as the U.S. fought much of the war on borrowed dollars, and for years, SIGAR has lamented that this money is merely exacerbating conflicts, enabling corruption, and boosting insurgent outfits. With that, the notion of “ghost soldiers” has and continues to be a big problem – meaning that thousands are being paid despite not showing up for work, being deceased, or not existing in the first place. Yet, someone was taking those paychecks.

An investigation into “ghost soldiers” was announced in 2019. Suddenly, 42,000 Afghan troops and police names disappeared from the payroll. A report published in late August 2020 found that “50 percent to 70 percent of police positions were ‘ghost soldiers.'”

Then there was the $28 million spent on Afghan army uniforms in 2017. But the spending spree was later criticized given that the gear selected was deemed only suitable for environments “so rare they account for just 2% of Afghanistan’s countryside.”

Whoops.

The U.S. Department of Justice has also had its work cut out over the past two decades arresting and charging both American and Afghan nationals for an endless slew of deceitful opportunities aimed at illegally benefitting from the money thrown blindly into the war machine.

From 2012 to 2015, the U.S. Department of Justice took on at least eight cases centered on mass bribery, fraud, and conspiracy to steal American monies in Afghanistan, as per public court filings. Still, the dilemma endured.

Multiple cases in recent years have shown U.S. government contractors in Afghanistan being sentenced to prison for “accepting illegal kickbacks” from Afghan subcontractors in return for assistance in obtaining subcontracts.

It is not just contractors – active-duty U.S. troops have also been embroiled in dozens of fraud-related schemes in Afghanistan, according to DOD filings. These ranged from convictions of a U.S. soldier collaborating with locals to smuggle almost $290,000 worth of supplies to be sold off-base, to a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers soliciting $320,000 in bribes from contractors “in return for assistance” in U.S. government contracts, to an Army Reserve captain soliciting $1.3 million in bribes and “conspiring to traffic heroin.”

SIGAR reports have also drawn attention to misused dollars at military and police training facilities. In one instance in 2016, SIGAR noted that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers awarded a $3.1 million firm-fixed-price to Assist Consultants Inc. to design and build a compound to train 100 female students in the Afghan National Police. An audit three years later showed that the compound had no electricity and had never been used.

Much of the waste and corruption from all sides of the spectrum seem to have carried on, despite it being languished and condemned in reports numerous times, months, and years on end.

A classic example is in the education sector.

A September 2019 watchdog letter stated that while the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) had been funding the Afghan school program since 2002, in 2009, the Afghanistan Ministry of Education (MoE) initiated a revised curriculum for general and Islamic education.

“Based on that curriculum, new textbooks for basic education were printed and distributed with the support of USAID and other development partners,” the report continued. “However, we found book quality deficiencies, such as loose or blank pages, misspellings, and low-quality paper. Principals and teachers at a quarter of the schools inspected stated, ‘that the books were no longer in usable condition.'”

Schools themselves across the embattled country have also been plagued with the same dilemmas for years on end, bringing into question just how much of the more than $1.1 billion USAID has disbursed effectively went to “improving the quality of Afghanistan’s education system.”

“From October 2015 to October 2018, we visited 171 schools in 10 provinces throughout Afghanistan and issued ten reports and four alert letters addressing the condition of those schools,” SIGAR said. “We found that many of the schools had structural deficiencies (e.g., showed signs of settlement or deterioration, cracks or large holes in their roofs, and damaged or removed windows and doors) that could potentially impact safety and the delivery of education.”

And while the U.S. footprint militarily has almost faded away, President Biden has pledged $4 billion for the coming fiscal year.

But the pivotal question persists: Will your tax dollars go toward saving Afghan from a Taliban takeover?
08-09-2021 04:28 PM
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