Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

I know actual history doesn't mean a lot to some who post here. You can see that when they make statements that compare apples to oranges to watermelons.

All you need to know about football in the United States can be found in a 1950 Almanac.

In 1950

Michigan had 21,000 students
Ohio State had 20,500 students
LSU had 10,000 students
Bama had 6,600 students
Georgia had 6300 students
UNC had 5,600 students
NC State had 4,600 students
Clemson had 2,900 students

If you knew anything about compound interest (itself an expression of the history of money) you would realize that having a 400% student body average advantage would mean a 400% alumni body average 20-30-40 years down the road.

If you get $10 dollars from all your students in 1950 and invest it and makes 8% and is compounded monthly how much do you have by year 30?

Michigan has 456K, UNC has 130K, Clemson has 84K.

The phrase "past investments" is misleading and in fact a red herring in most cases. The student and surrounding community population at the end of WWII is what matters today. Since 1950 only Florida State, Louisville, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech have punched they way into the main group. Houston punched in and was tossed out. UConn punched in and was tossed out. TCU is the only one to have been tossed out and to have gotten back in - for a while.

This is part of the fundamental problem that so many do not see, this is the same group of schools running things as it was in 1984, as it was in 1950, as it was in 1921, as it was in 1900.

The Big 10 has bigger stadiums not because of football, but because their student populations where 4 times those in the south.
The SEC has bigger stadiums because football was more important in most states than an actual college degree.
Both the Pacific and Atlantic schools fell between these two extremes.

Schools, being all in on football, means you don't throw a star off the team because he is riding his moped on the sidewalk AGAIN despite being told not to. Being all in on basketball means that you don't suspend a player you need even after telling the kid to quit parking in a loading zone, and he keeps doing it and gets a ticket and then has a public argument with the attendant. This is **** that has happened at State in the last 5 years.

You get a lot more leeway in Chapel Hill because the Chapel Hill police are not anti-UNC. You get more leeway in Durham because the City of Durham doesn't want a black eye after the Duke Lacrosse fiasco. But the willingness to accept football misanthropes is not there. They quit tolerating football potheads in Blacksburg and that's the origin of the current degradation in the program. Clemson, perhaps owing to it's military past, has always been able to reign in dumb athletes, but there is much less that can happen to a person in Clemson than say Raleigh or Atlanta.

My read is that Louisville and FSU are the last two schools in the conference that will put anything out there in a FSU or Louisville uniform, and the clock is ticking on that as well. Give it 5 more years at both places and you will likely have seen your last ACC misanthropes.

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

I've met academics who are politically savvy, but I've yet to meet a single one who was in the president's office, or within his/her staff, that had an inkling of business sense. Face it, by the time they attain the position they've spent a career working for, and depending upon, COLAs, schmoozing the wealthy, and entertaining, or working in think tanks, with politicians. Their eyes are on how to become the next higher rung of academia. It was bound to happen in the academic pecking order that FSU's administration would be heavily influenced by UNC, Duke and UVa, none of which have a priority on football. It just goes with the academic world. This is another reason it would be healthier for distinct worlds to exist within each school. There needs to be academic conferences, or associations, and athletic conferences and the two need to be wholly unique sets divorced from one another in leadership and function, and membership. A Florida should be able to freely play sports with Alabama and freely align academically with UNC. I know they can, and do, anyway, but by formalizing the divide you would divorce Victorian era customs and priorities from 21st century realities. The goal should be to maximize academic values in the one and athletic values in the other so that each school could pursue optimum progress in each without the one impeding the other. Why not win at both by freeing each to swim on its own instead of tying the two together where each can drown the other by trying to swim in different directions. You would think academics would have figured this out by now, but no!!!! It's not how they've always done it!

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

Nole,

It seems that FSU is broke because of self inflicted reasons, not because its in the Acc. If FSU lost 50% of its booster base it may be because of poor coaching hires and not so great win/loss records, which would be exacerbated in a league like the SEC. Those things seem fixable with the right coach, one who can ring in the booster base and restore the excitement that was once FSU.

I could be wrong but it seems that FSU is the only program in the Acc that is crying broke like this. All the schools lost money because of covid. The Acc maybe arguably, the poorest P5 conference but it hasnt stopped Clemson from being one of the top football programs in the country even though folks have been preaching doom and gloom for years, and FSU AD pulls in more money than Clemson. Im hoping FSU can return to its former glory on the gridiron.

(08-09-2021 05:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Schools, being all in on football, means you don't throw a star off the team because he is riding his moped on the sidewalk AGAIN despite being told not to. Being all in on basketball means that you don't suspend a player you need even after telling the kid to quit parking in a loading zone, and he keeps doing it and gets a ticket and then has a public argument with the attendant. This is **** that has happened at State in the last 5 years.

You get a lot more leeway in Chapel Hill because the Chapel Hill police are not anti-UNC. You get more leeway in Durham because the City of Durham doesn't want a black eye after the Duke Lacrosse fiasco. But the willingness to accept football misanthropes is not there. They quit tolerating football potheads in Blacksburg and that's the origin of the current degradation in the program. Clemson, perhaps owing to it's military past, has always been able to reign in dumb athletes, but there is much less that can happen to a person in Clemson than say Raleigh or Atlanta.

My read is that Louisville and FSU are the last two schools in the conference that will put anything out there in a FSU or Louisville uniform, and the clock is ticking on that as well. Give it 5 more years at both places and you will likely have seen your last ACC misanthropes.

See what I mean? There's an infinite number of excuses for NCSU. I learned 90% of them growing up. These are some of the recent talking points.

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

FSU is broke because they spent money like drunken sailors and the athletic department couldn't live within a budget.

(08-10-2021 09:03 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 05:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Schools, being all in on football, means you don't throw a star off the team because he is riding his moped on the sidewalk AGAIN despite being told not to. Being all in on basketball means that you don't suspend a player you need even after telling the kid to quit parking in a loading zone, and he keeps doing it and gets a ticket and then has a public argument with the attendant. This is **** that has happened at State in the last 5 years.

You get a lot more leeway in Chapel Hill because the Chapel Hill police are not anti-UNC. You get more leeway in Durham because the City of Durham doesn't want a black eye after the Duke Lacrosse fiasco. But the willingness to accept football misanthropes is not there. They quit tolerating football potheads in Blacksburg and that's the origin of the current degradation in the program. Clemson, perhaps owing to it's military past, has always been able to reign in dumb athletes, but there is much less that can happen to a person in Clemson than say Raleigh or Atlanta.

My read is that Louisville and FSU are the last two schools in the conference that will put anything out there in a FSU or Louisville uniform, and the clock is ticking on that as well. Give it 5 more years at both places and you will likely have seen your last ACC misanthropes.

See what I mean? There's an infinite number of excuses for NCSU. I learned 90% of them growing up. These are some of the recent talking points.

Must be sad being an ECU fan.

(08-10-2021 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

FSU is broke because they spent money like drunken sailors and the athletic department couldn't live within a budget.

I don't know. Losing 50% of your donor base is going to hurt you whether or not you were keeping within your budget before.

(08-10-2021 04:26 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

Nole,

It seems that FSU is broke because of self inflicted reasons, not because its in the Acc. If FSU lost 50% of its booster base it may be because of poor coaching hires and not so great win/loss records, which would be exacerbated in a league like the SEC. Those things seem fixable with the right coach, one who can ring in the booster base and restore the excitement that was once FSU.

I could be wrong but it seems that FSU is the only program in the Acc that is crying broke like this. All the schools lost money because of covid. The Acc maybe arguably, the poorest P5 conference but it hasnt stopped Clemson from being one of the top football programs in the country even though folks have been preaching doom and gloom for years, and FSU AD pulls in more money than Clemson. Im hoping FSU can return to its former glory on the gridiron.

Two things can be true at the same time. FSU is broke because of self inflicted wounds AND because the ACC is the poorest P5 conference.

FSU is the only school complain IN PART because other than Clemson, the entire conference is dead weight for football minus BRIEF moments. This isn't a good point.

Clemson has done great things....are they the exception or the rule?


FSU HAS to be smarter....the ACC HAS to be smarter.

FSU being run by idiots doesn't mean the ACC leadership aren't idiots also. I do have hope for new commish.....but we will see.

(08-10-2021 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

FSU is broke because they spent money like drunken sailors and the athletic department couldn't live within a budget.

Disagree.

1) because their leadership forgot who FSU was. It would be like UNC losing interest in bball....it would impact boosters.

2) They money spent went into non football areas....and guess what....there was no financial return.

3) In football, to keep up, you need to spend with the SEC....who make $15 million a year more than ACC schools right off the bat. That's part of the equation. ($15 million a year is a HUGE part of the equation)

(08-10-2021 01:05 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-10-2021 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

FSU is broke because they spent money like drunken sailors and the athletic department couldn't live within a budget.

I don't know. Losing 50% of your donor base is going to hurt you whether or not you were keeping within your budget before.

If you want some real forensic accounting fun, attempt to figure out how much a season ticket package costs at FSU, NC State, and UNC. Unless I have misread FSU's information they have three separate charges - the tickets, a seat fee tied to a seat, and an annual fee. State and UNC have only two fees a donation and a ticket fee.

The result is that 4 season tickets at FSU cost $3,400, while the 4 season tickets at UNC and NC State are $2,000 and $2,030, respectively. Now, being in some competition with other college football programs in the Triangle, UNC and NC State prices might be depressed. So I looked at VT, and they also have a per seat donation requirement before the buy a ticket like FSU. Theirs is about $350 and the result is that it costs about $3,200 for four season tickets at VT.

Essential you are paying:

$128 a ticket at FSU for ND, Miami, Louisville, NC State, UMass, Jax State, Syracuse
$114 a ticket at VT for ND, Pitt, Middle TN, Syracuse, Duke, Richmond, and UNC
$72 a ticket at NC State for Clemson, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, Furman, USF, and La Tech
$71 a ticket at UNC for FSU, Miami, UVa, WF, Duke, Ga State, and Wofford.
71.50 at UNC

You charge the most for football tickets in the conference. What do you offer your fans in return? It's not games you have lost against SEC foes that have ruined the past 4-5 years. It's games you couldn't win against league foes.

FSU Losses In Recent Years:

20 - GT, Miami, ND, Louisville, Pitt, NC State
19 - Boise State, UVa, Clemson, WF, Miami, Florida, Arizona State
18 - VT, Syracuse, Miami, Clemson, NC State, ND, Florida
17 - Bama, NC State, Miami, Louisville, BC, Clemson
16 - Louisville, UNC, Clemson
15 - Clemson, GT, Houston

You have not beaten Clemson in 6 years. It has been 5 years since you have beaten Miami. You have 3 losses each to NC State and Louisville. You have 9 additional ACC losses in these last 6 years. Lack of money did not do this. Being in the ACC did not do this. But yes, for a program spoiled over the last 40 years with tremendous success, I don't doubt your less faithful booster go into hiding when it appears as if you can't replace Jimbo, let alone Bobby.

Winning will cure what ails you. Stomp a mudhole in Miami to start with. Then quit choking every time you play NC State. Quit having an NC State- type wtf loss to an inferior team every year. Do that and your fans will come back, beat Clemson once in a while and your boosters will give again.

(08-10-2021 01:46 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-10-2021 04:26 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 10:26 PM)nole Wrote:  

(08-09-2021 04:33 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Duke and North Carolina have always been men's basketball schools. Expecting them to turn around and become football schools is stupid. Virginia is now big time in men's basketball as well and won the national championship in 2019. If they want to think men's basketball first, I don't have a problem with it. Do you think Kentucky thinks football first? Does the SEC have a problem with them? If they do, the Big Ten will be glad to take them off their hands. If a school can contend for the national championship in men's basketball but can't in football, they should invest more in men's basketball. A school like Boston College hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 2009 but they made a bowl game the last four non COVID seasons and six of the last seven. If they want to go all in on football and be irrelevant in men's basketball and the ACC can live with that, more power to them.

Florida State is probably in a gray area. They're clearly behind UF in their state and Clemson in the ACC. If they go all in on football, maybe they're a nine win team instead of a seven win team? But they're knocking on the door of the top level of the ACC and the NCAA in men's basketball. If Baylor can win a national championship, why can't Florida State? And FSU baseball has been to the CWS in 2017 and 2019. Does anyone here believe FSU will win a national championship in football in the next decade even if they gave every dollar to football and gave up every other sports team at Tallahassee? Florida State will always be football first but they better not be quick to force Leonard Hamilton into early retirement or go cheap on his replacement when he does retire. Florida State right now is probably better in men's basketball than Florida. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

And the result is FSU is broke. Stupid leaders forgot football pays the bills and they lost millions. Lost 50% of their booster base (real #s).

FSU emulated the ACC instead of the ACC emulating what FSU was. Everyone was insanely stupid and the result is the poorest athletic P5 conference and it will wind up ending the conference.

Nole,

It seems that FSU is broke because of self inflicted reasons, not because its in the Acc. If FSU lost 50% of its booster base it may be because of poor coaching hires and not so great win/loss records, which would be exacerbated in a league like the SEC. Those things seem fixable with the right coach, one who can ring in the booster base and restore the excitement that was once FSU.

I could be wrong but it seems that FSU is the only program in the Acc that is crying broke like this. All the schools lost money because of covid. The Acc maybe arguably, the poorest P5 conference but it hasnt stopped Clemson from being one of the top football programs in the country even though folks have been preaching doom and gloom for years, and FSU AD pulls in more money than Clemson. Im hoping FSU can return to its former glory on the gridiron.

Two things can be true at the same time. FSU is broke because of self inflicted wounds AND because the ACC is the poorest P5 conference.

FSU is the only school complain IN PART because other than Clemson, the entire conference is dead weight for football minus BRIEF moments. This isn't a good point.

Clemson has done great things....are they the exception or the rule?


FSU HAS to be smarter....the ACC HAS to be smarter.

FSU being run by idiots doesn't mean the ACC leadership aren't idiots also. I do have hope for new commish.....but we will see.

I absolutely agree that 2 things can be true at the same time. But again, losing 50% of your booster base is a unique experience shared only by FSU in the ACC. That is self inflicted and has nothing to do with the Acc other than losing to alot of ACC teams the last few years. Thats an experience that would have happened to FSU no matter what league its in.