(07-06-2021 10:10 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  It's the schools that are dependent on student fees to finance their athletic departments that will need to better justify their decisions. Mainly G5 and some FCS universities should be making faster decisions on pay-for-play. Amongst the P5, Rutgers and Maryland have historically had the largest student fee subsidizations of athletics. In addition, many ACC and PAC schools continue to subsidize athletics. Pay-for-play should make high-level athletics more independent and self-sufficient. P5 schools will adapt.

IMO, pay-for-play will be embraced by elite private universities (e.g., Stanford, Duke and NW) so long as sports can be used to differentiate their brands. These universities now use P5 membership to attract elite students on a well-rounded academic & social experience. So long as collegiate athletics has positive connotations and being affiliated with a private school does not detract from growing revenues, then it's win-win for the university and boosters.

Even those with high student fees are unlikely to drop. Short term, nobody's going to do it because of the facility expences and debt service most are carrying due to the arms race. The public SEC schools have $150M of athletic facility debt on average, so use that at a barometer for the other power conferences.

(07-06-2021 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 11:40 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be very surprised and disappointed if Vanderbilt opted out. The result could be very damaging to the university.

Why exactly?

Yeah. Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern. I don't see how it would damage any of those schools at all except that they would lose P5 media revenues.

Emory has no problem attracting students. U of Chicago doesn't. Case Western doesn't. They are all Division III.

Some of the other privates aren't as "elite" and might need the Division I boost, but not those 3.

(07-06-2021 12:34 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 10:37 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 09:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  It would be hard to make up the revenue lost for a P5. Even if they completely dropped football. But some schools like Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake Forest, BC and Syracuse could and then probably get in the Big East. I suspect it will be several or none. Don't see 1 or 2 doing it.

It wont be Syracuse. SU is actually a very large private school with 22,000 students and a $100 million revenue generator. And further to the point, NYS treats SU like a public university even though its a private and the school is a large economic generator for the State. The state was willing to give the school $200 million to renovate the dome a few years ago. How many states are willing to do that for a private school.

The private Syracuse University has an insanely tight relationship with the public SUNY Upstate Medical School and SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry (ESF) located immediately adjacent to campus. The relationship between ESF and SU is so tight that the only thing that ESF students can't do at Syracuse is to play for the Orange.

Sounds a little like the way NY state does the Ag school at Cornell.

(07-06-2021 01:34 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Here are some recent pictures of the new roof construction at the Dome

https://pfeifer-structures.com/portfolio/carrier-dome/

Seating, wifi enhancements and more VIP creature comforts are coming

Impressive.

(07-06-2021 04:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 11:40 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be very surprised and disappointed if Vanderbilt opted out. The result could be very damaging to the university.

Why exactly?

Yeah. Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern. I don't see how it would damage any of those schools at all except that they would lose P5 media revenues.

Emory has no problem attracting students. U of Chicago doesn't. Case Western doesn't. They are all Division III.

Some of the other privates aren't as "elite" and might need the Division I boost, but not those 3.

I guess my concern is that if Vanderbilt opted out of play for pay, it likely would have to leave the SEC (as I understand it). In that scenario, I would have two major concerns as a long-time Vandy fan (about 50 years now and it's hard to believe):

First, if Vanderbilt were to depart the SEC, I feel that could be hugely damaging to the Commodore baseball program. There is no other league (current or future) that is as strong as the SEC in that sport and that VU could be a part of if it opts out of play for pay. Vandy baseball is as strong as it is, in large part, due to SEC affiliation.

Second, there is also a noteworthy relationship between Vanderbilt, Nashville (the city itself) and the SEC that I have to wonder is seen on the same level with Stanford/San Francisco/the Pac12, Baylor/TCU/Waco/Fort Worth/the Big 12, Northwestern/Chicago/the Big Ten and the ACC privates/their locales/the ACC.

Having lived in Chicago and observed first-hand the Northwestern/Chicago/Big Ten dynamic, I can say the Vanderbilt, Nashville/SEC relationship simply seems more vibrant and impactful for all three parties in that relationship than the Northwestern/Chicago/Big Ten dynamic (though I could be wrong).

VU needs that dynamic for full health — and Nashville does, too, to an extent.

(07-06-2021 11:33 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 10:37 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-06-2021 09:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  It would be hard to make up the revenue lost for a P5. Even if they completely dropped football. But some schools like Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake Forest, BC and Syracuse could and then probably get in the Big East. I suspect it will be several or none. Don't see 1 or 2 doing it.

It wont be Syracuse. SU is actually a very large private school with 22,000 students and a $100 million revenue generator. And further to the point, NYS treats SU like a public university even though its a private and the school is a large economic generator for the State. The state was willing to give the school $200 million to renovate the dome a few years ago. How many states are willing to do that for a private school.

Hate to contradict you but the renovation was in the low 100M range. Also, the funds came through the college entirely. The state as as I know hasn't funded any this time. That said you are correct they aren't getting out of P5 FB. The Dome will have a new vibe this year with so many improvements and fans in there. More improvements are coming over the next 1-3 years.

SU is a large private school and it feels even bigger with SUNY-ESF and SUNY Upstate Medical University literally attached to SU. It isn't Wake Forest or Rice.

Mark,

You will notice that I wrote that NYS was WILLING to give SU $200 million for the renovating of the Dome (It was actually for rebuilding the Dome). I never said that the State actually gave SU $200 million. It wasnt my intent to make it seem that SU actually got $200 million. Local politics got in the way and Syracuse University, for some reason went in a different direction to renovate the Dome instead:

Heres a link that briefly discusses the $200 million
SYRACUSE.com


Here's an excerpt from that article about the $200 million:

A proposal for a new off-campus stadium began circulating in late 2013, although a private developer had contacted the university as early as 2007. Onondaga County Executive Joanie Mahoney had convinced New York state Gov. Andrew Cuomo to provide as much as $200 million of a $500 million project to create a new stadium, according to Syracuse.com.

Even though it never came to fruition, its quite impressive that a State is willing to fork over $200 million to a private university for a sports facility. I dont think that is a very common occurrence. This is why I say that NYS treats SU like a public university.

Ahh yes...the old stadium deal killed by feuding politicians.

This thread might as well be asking "Which P5 schools would opt out of making their football players wear horned Viking helmets" because, just like schools making athletes employees and paying them directly, the horned Viking helmet is not seriously being considered.