(06-30-2021 11:03 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The B12 has often used their comparatively smaller size, 10 members, to their advantage in multiple situations. Being a conference champion of 10 members is not equivalent, at least mathematically, to being a conference champion of 14 members. A couple or so of at-large picks doesn't automatically assure a
fix in the inequalities in conference structures and strength.

A proposal of wider assurances and inclusiveness of conference representation, doesn't necessarily deplete systematic advantages and disadvantages.

Tossing out the "limited to the subjectively assessed four best" which has had its proven flaws, may end up inviting more ants to the picnic unless size and quality depth is incorporated as a sustainable factor of consideration.

It (the expansion) is nothing more than ESPN grasping for more market share for the event because they have realized that annually 3 if not all 4 of the best will be coming from the Southeast and Southwest with the ACC and SEC champs almost certainly to be from the Southeast and Oklahoma when it makes the field from the Southwest. They pray every year that Ohio State wins the B10 because with Michigan sagging they lose too many eyeballs otherwise and it opens the door for an SEC #2 by their selection process.

Expanding is the only way to assure a West coast participation in the event.

But it will only be more "ants to the picnic" because football is only king in high school in the Southeast and Southwest and those regions have the greatest number of recruits because of it.

At 4 schools we have blowouts in the semis. Adding more will get more first round viewers, but it won't get better games. Iowa, Ohio, and Pennsylvania on a great year can hold their own (with Iowa disadvantaged in population) as their sports culture is right. Other than that the game is, and has been for 25 years, a regional sport in terms of championships and we are talking CFP. You would have NFL lite if you added Oklahoma, FSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Penn State, and N.D. to the top 8 or 9 SEC schools.

(06-30-2021 11:03 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The B12 has often used their comparatively smaller size, 10 members, to their advantage in multiple situations. Being a conference champion of 10 members is not equivalent, at least mathematically, to being a conference champion of 14 members. A couple or so of at-large picks doesn't automatically assure a
fix in the inequalities in conference structures and strength.

A proposal of wider assurances and inclusiveness of conference representation, doesn't necessarily deplete systematic advantages and disadvantages.

Tossing out the "limited to the subjectively assessed four best" which has had its proven flaws, may end up inviting more ants to the picnic unless size and quality depth is incorporated as a sustainable factor of consideration.

Mathematically that's true. But it really only applies if all teams are equal. But if they aren't, then no. E.g., surely, beating San Jose State 14 times isn't more difficult than beating Alabama 10 times.

Bottom line is, the Big 12 is usually a pretty highly rated conference. Often within the top 3 of the P5, in terms of overall SOS. So their 10 to 14 advantage is something that really involves money distribution (their schools get more per capita) rather than being a competitive thing.

+2 for "ants to the picnic" though. Like that. :)

(06-30-2021 12:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-30-2021 11:03 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The B12 has often used their comparatively smaller size, 10 members, to their advantage in multiple situations. Being a conference champion of 10 members is not equivalent, at least mathematically, to being a conference champion of 14 members. A couple or so of at-large picks doesn't automatically assure a
fix in the inequalities in conference structures and strength.

A proposal of wider assurances and inclusiveness of conference representation, doesn't necessarily deplete systematic advantages and disadvantages.

Tossing out the "limited to the subjectively assessed four best" which has had its proven flaws, may end up inviting more ants to the picnic unless size and quality depth is incorporated as a sustainable factor of consideration.

Mathematically that's true. But it really only applies if all teams are equal. But if they aren't, then no. E.g., surely, beating San Jose State 14 times isn't more difficult than beating Alabama 10 times.

Bottom line is, the Big 12 is usually a pretty highly rated conference. Often within the top 3 of the P5, in terms of overall SOS. So their 10 to 14 advantage is something that really involves money distribution (their schools get more per capita) rather than being a competitive thing.

+2 for "ants to the picnic" though. Like that. :)

LOL, thanks. Seriously, I did not borrow that analogy from anywhere. It just popped in my head as I was typing.

(06-30-2021 12:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-30-2021 11:03 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The B12 has often used their comparatively smaller size, 10 members, to their advantage in multiple situations. Being a conference champion of 10 members is not equivalent, at least mathematically, to being a conference champion of 14 members. A couple or so of at-large picks doesn't automatically assure a
fix in the inequalities in conference structures and strength.

A proposal of wider assurances and inclusiveness of conference representation, doesn't necessarily deplete systematic advantages and disadvantages.

Tossing out the "limited to the subjectively assessed four best" which has had its proven flaws, may end up inviting more ants to the picnic unless size and quality depth is incorporated as a sustainable factor of consideration.

Mathematically that's true. But it really only applies if all teams are equal. But if they aren't, then no. E.g., surely, beating San Jose State 14 times isn't more difficult than beating Alabama 10 times.

Bottom line is, the Big 12 is usually a pretty highly rated conference. Often within the top 3 of the P5, in terms of overall SOS. So their 10 to 14 advantage is something that really involves money distribution (their schools get more per capita) rather than being a competitive thing.

+2 for "ants to the picnic" though. Like that. :)

I think one of the hardest challenges for the Big 12 is that it is a guarantee to have a rematch for the Big 12 Championship game, due to the round-robin format. While the SEC/B1G/PAC/ACC may have a rematch, that is never guaranteed. I think there is something to be said about beating one team twice in a season, as that is a big challenge in itself (when teams have talent and skill).

I don't have the numbers, but I would also sincerely doubt that the Big 12 Championship game rematch gets lower ratings than the first matchup. The championship nature of the game will always create a boost in viewership.

(06-30-2021 11:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It (the expansion) is nothing more than ESPN grasping for more market share for the event because they have realized that annually 3 if not all 4 of the best will be coming from the Southeast and Southwest with the ACC and SEC champs almost certainly to be from the Southeast and Oklahoma when it makes the field from the Southwest. They pray every year that Ohio State wins the B10 because with Michigan sagging they lose too many eyeballs otherwise and it opens the door for an SEC #2 by their selection process.

Expanding is the only way to assure a West coast participation in the event.

But it will only be more "ants to the picnic" because football is only king in high school in the Southeast and Southwest and those regions have the greatest number of recruits because of it.

At 4 schools we have blowouts in the semis. Adding more will get more first round viewers, but it won't get better games. Iowa, Ohio, and Pennsylvania on a great year can hold their own (with Iowa disadvantaged in population) as their sports culture is right. Other than that the game is, and has been for 25 years, a regional sport in terms of championships and we are talking CFP. You would have NFL lite if you added Oklahoma, FSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Penn State, and N.D. to the top 8 or 9 SEC schools.

In the seven years of the college football playoff system, Alabama and Clemson have made the playoffs six times each, while Ohio State and Oklahoma have made the playoffs four times each. Other than the additional money, these four schools have no reason to want to expand the playoffs. The Pac-12 will benefit more than any other power conference from playoff expansion and it is not just because these four schools are shutting them out, which they are. They are taking the top talent as well.

Alabama is starting Bryce Young (Santa Ana Mater Dei) at quarterback. Clemson’s starting quarterback is D.J. Uiagalelei from St. John Bosco in Bellflower. Ohio State is starting C.J. Stroud at quarterback. He played his high school football at Rancho Cucamonga High School. These three guys were playing high school football in Southern California in 2019. Oklahoma is starting Spencer Rattler from Pinnacle High School in Phoenix, Arizona at quarterback. Even Georgia has a Southern California kid, JT Daniels, starting at quarterback. It is not just the quarterback position, but that is a good place to start.

While it has been fifty years since I played high school football in Texas, I know how much they love football in that region of the country. Yes, they do produce a lot of talent in the South, but if they had everything they needed in the South, they would not need to come to other parts of the country to find talent. Alabama must have a fifty state recruiting strategy. That is a credit to Saban and what he has put together at Alabama. SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey has done an excellent job as well. I wish he had been Commissioner of the Pac-12 for the past decade.

In the west, particularly Southern California, there is no lack of football and no lack of talent. St. John Bosco high school won the national championship in 2019. In Los Angeles County this year, there will be 23 FBS football games this year and 18 NFL football games. USC and UCLA will both play seven home games this season. San Diego State will also play seven home games at Dignity Health Sport Park in Carson. There is also the Jimmy Kimmel Bowl game at SoFi Stadium and the Rose Bowl game. The Chargers have nine home games this season and the Rams have eight home games. The eighteenth game is the Super Bowl at SoFi Stadium.

So while the Greater LA are may not be considered a football crazy region, there is not another area in the country with the quantity of football that LA County will have this year. Plus, there is no lack of high school football talent out here, either.

(06-30-2021 05:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(06-30-2021 11:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It (the expansion) is nothing more than ESPN grasping for more market share for the event because they have realized that annually 3 if not all 4 of the best will be coming from the Southeast and Southwest with the ACC and SEC champs almost certainly to be from the Southeast and Oklahoma when it makes the field from the Southwest. They pray every year that Ohio State wins the B10 because with Michigan sagging they lose too many eyeballs otherwise and it opens the door for an SEC #2 by their selection process.

Expanding is the only way to assure a West coast participation in the event.

But it will only be more "ants to the picnic" because football is only king in high school in the Southeast and Southwest and those regions have the greatest number of recruits because of it.

At 4 schools we have blowouts in the semis. Adding more will get more first round viewers, but it won't get better games. Iowa, Ohio, and Pennsylvania on a great year can hold their own (with Iowa disadvantaged in population) as their sports culture is right. Other than that the game is, and has been for 25 years, a regional sport in terms of championships and we are talking CFP. You would have NFL lite if you added Oklahoma, FSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Penn State, and N.D. to the top 8 or 9 SEC schools.

In the seven years of the college football playoff system, Alabama and Clemson have made the playoffs six times each, while Ohio State and Oklahoma have made the playoffs four times each. Other than the additional money, these four schools have no reason to want to expand the playoffs. The Pac-12 will benefit more than any other power conference from playoff expansion and it is not just because these four schools are shutting them out, which they are. They are taking the top talent as well.

Alabama is starting Bryce Young (Santa Ana Mater Dei) at quarterback. Clemson’s starting quarterback is D.J. Uiagalelei from St. John Bosco in Bellflower. Ohio State is starting C.J. Stroud at quarterback. He played his high school football at Rancho Cucamonga High School. These three guys were playing high school football in Southern California in 2019. Oklahoma is starting Spencer Rattler from Pinnacle High School in Phoenix, Arizona at quarterback. Even Georgia has a Southern California kid, JT Daniels, starting at quarterback. It is not just the quarterback position, but that is a good place to start.

While it has been fifty years since I played high school football in Texas, I know how much they love football in that region of the country. Yes, they do produce a lot of talent in the South, but if they had everything they needed in the South, they would not need to come to other parts of the country to find talent. Alabama must have a fifty state recruiting strategy. That is a credit to Saban and what he has put together at Alabama. SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey has done an excellent job as well. I wish he had been Commissioner of the Pac-12 for the past decade.

In the west, particularly Southern California, there is no lack of football and no lack of talent. St. John Bosco high school won the national championship in 2019. In Los Angeles County this year, there will be 23 FBS football games this year and 18 NFL football games. USC and UCLA will both play seven home games this season. San Diego State will also play seven home games at Dignity Health Sport Park in Carson. There is also the Jimmy Kimmel Bowl game at SoFi Stadium and the Rose Bowl game. The Chargers have nine home games this season and the Rams have eight home games. The eighteenth game is the Super Bowl at SoFi Stadium.

So while the Greater LA are may not be considered a football crazy region, there is not another area in the country with the quantity of football that LA County will have this year. Plus, there is no lack of high school football talent out here, either.

It's true the top brands recruit nationally and QB is not a deep position in the South but OL and DL is, as well as RB & WR. My observation stands. A handful of QB's and WR don't make an argument against the home grown talent of the regions cited as NFL draft numbers as well as championships bear out. I played 50 years ago and both ways and even in the South the % of boys playing is beginning to diminish. Culture of region has helped, but among the young that is shifting.