we were talking in the other thread about what our seed says about the caa. it says everything to me. the question is...how does this get fixed?

i feel like the caa has done a great job of assembling programs that are in similar positions...and not good positions. they're in close proximity to more prominent programs who take the attention. not in particularly good proximity to each other. some of them have facilities that you'd see at bigger schools with good athletics from top to bottom (think of delaware and towson). there's an effort to be really good...but it's just not happening.

the shortest term solution would be having at least one flagship program the fans and media know and respect. it would also give a benchmark everyone in the conference can gun for. obviously i hope that's a role we can play.

scheduling tougher games is fine as long as we win some of them. i'm not sure the conference is positioned for that yet. people complain about flo because it doesn't capture people who are wandering through the channels. i have flo, easily could have wandered around to other caa games, and had no interest doing it. the games just aren't interesting.

i think the league is fundamentally flawed because of who's in it and the geography. it's awkward programs who have the appearances of solid programs on the outside. never judge a book by its cover. many of them have no ties to each other whatsoever so it's not interesting when they play each other. this is a longer term program that almost a full rebuild of the conference can deal with.

how they handled covid is obviously another issue. the caa was essentially off the map this year.

The answer is, it was always a mesh once the AE schools were brought in. Then once the virginia 3 schools left it was obviously in an awkward position. The CAA did try and brought into high potential schools with Elon and CofC. But that doesnt change it being an awkward conference. It really is at a crossroads and needing to decide whether it wants football to be the flagship sport or basketball and go from there. This is all likely moot as JMU wont be staying very long and the aftermath wont be good for the conference. The dominoes will start falling with W&M out the door shortly after JMU. With those 2 virginia schools the carolina schools likely have to look elsewhere which leaves the conference back to just the original AE schools. Does the CAA expand on that and start bringing in teams to go as a northern route or does it completely dissolve and everyone finds a new home? I am not sure the answer to that.

As far as basketball having so many winners in the past decade, helps the schools chances, but outside of the CAA doors, it does not help be on the map as you said. The transfer portal has killed any momentum this league can garner. We are literally a minor league for the major schools now. If we or any of our counterparts get a good player, they wont stay long. This freebie year will be the worst because all players had a free year to be scouted without losing a year. The game at UNC for NU likely cost them Walker. A good showing in the NCAA may cost us Cam or TJ etc. Long gone are the days of a mid major or low major school building through good recruiting. If you find gems, they will just be poached away. Its a tough reality of college hoops nowadays. The Damion Lee's are now the norm, not the exception. Until the rules change I dont see how the CAA can get back to being a top tier league, and that is no fault of its own. The system is rigged against the small schools now.

I wouldn't look too much into this. It's true that ALL mid-majors are screwed, not just the CAA. And dan10's points are unfortunately valid. It's been the goal of the NCAA to screw over mid-major conferences for several years now. Between easy transfer rules, cash stipends that mid-majors can't afford to pay, and dominant TV deals for the power conferences, the divide between the majors and mid majors is as large as ever.

But where the CAA stands, I don't think that our league is necessarily in much worse shape than most of the others. The 16 seed is what it is and there were many factors that played into it. The CAA still had an overall NET of 16 out of 31 conferences. Many of the weaker conferences, Patriot, Southland, Big South, Atlantic Sun for example had that one dominant team win their conference. The CAA didn't have that this year. It also didn't help the CAA to have so many games cancelled. I was shocked to see that some of these teams played a full 28-30 game season. Sure, we could argue that we should have been ranked higher than a few of the 15 seeds based on NET. I've been proposing for years that the seedings be based on a formula instead of subjectivity. Until that happens, there's always going to be debates on where teams should be seeded.

I think he said the average number of games played was 27 last night, at least of tournament teams. He gave a number of over 80% total games played across D1. So yu may have been shocked by the number of games played, but thats only because you werent paying attention outside of the CAA. Thats why there was so much frustration over Twitter and all from schools fans. Because the conference was clearly behind and doing nothing while everyone else was playing.

Hofstra could be the CAA team that has done the best in terms of net transfers. Since second leading scorer Chaz Williams (who is among the NCAA career assists leaders) and third leader scorer Halil Kanacevic transferred after Coach Tom Pecora left after 2009-2010, Hofstra has had these transfers come in:

Mike Moore: 1,128 points in two seasons, led CAA in points per game in 2011-2012
Zeke Upshaw: 655 points in one season, led CAA in points per game in 2013-2014
Juan'ya Green: 1,186 points and 463 assists in two seasons, POY in 2015-2016
Ameen Tanksley: 1,090 points in two seasons
Brian Bernardi: 1,186 points in three seasons, was second in Hofstra history with 256 threes when he graduated
Tareq Coburn: 973 points in three seasons, has one season left if you don't count this seasons
Isaac Kante: 682 points and 484 rebounds in two seasons, has two seasons left if you don't count this season

Dion Nesmith, Malik Nichols, Denton Koon, and Jacquil Taylor also contributed. Rokas Gustys, Justin Wright-Foreman, Eli Pemberton, Desure Buie, and Jalen Ray all stayed for four seasons. Before them, Charles Jenkins, Antoine Agudio, Loren Stokes, and Carlos Rivera stayed for four seasons. When I look at other team's Game Notes, I see that Hofstra's top players in career points are higher than other teams, and one factor is players who would have scored over 1,000 points for another team if they stayed.

(03-15-2021 10:06 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  Hofstra could be the CAA team that has done the best in terms of net transfers. Since second leading scorer Chaz Williams (who is among the NCAA career assists leaders) and third leader scorer Halil Kanacevic transferred after Coach Tom Pecora left after 2009-2010, Hofstra has had these transfers come in:

Mike Moore: 1,128 points in two seasons, led CAA in points per game in 2011-2012
Zeke Upshaw: 655 points in one season, led CAA in points per game in 2013-2014
Juan'ya Green: 1,186 points and 463 assists in two seasons, POY in 2015-2016
Ameen Tanksley: 1,090 points in two seasons
Brian Bernardi: 1,186 points in three seasons, was second in Hofstra history with 256 threes when he graduated
Tareq Coburn: 973 points in three seasons, has one season left if you don't count this seasons
Isaac Kante: 682 points and 484 rebounds in two seasons, has two seasons left if you don't count this season

Dion Nesmith, Malik Nichols, Denton Koon, and Jacquil Taylor also contributed. Rokas Gustys, Justin Wright-Foreman, Eli Pemberton, Desure Buie, and Jalen Ray all stayed for four seasons. Before them, Charles Jenkins, Antoine Agudio, Loren Stokes, and Carlos Rivera stayed for four seasons. When I look at other team's Game Notes, I see that Hofstra's top players in career points are higher than other teams, and one factor is players who would have scored over 1,000 points for another team if they stayed.

Alright, you've got me sold -- I'm a Hofstra fan now. I'm trashing all my Dragons gear and getting an Antoine Aguido blowout as I type this. See you on the LIE...

(03-15-2021 06:50 AM)hiroshimacarp Wrote:  we were talking in the other thread about what our seed says about the caa. it says everything to me. the question is...how does this get fixed?

The solution is to double our MBB basketball budget and convince the A10 to take us as a replacement for Temple, and the time to do it was 10 years ago. Now conference realignment is coming again, and it's not too late to not make the same mistake twice... but it seems clear the administration does not see the same value in fielding competitive teams that other schools do. (We actually decreased our MBB spending???)

I agree with the assessment of others in this thread that the odds have been stacked against us. Catching up with what's been going around the league recently has been interesting. The TV deal for instance -- I'm fascinated to learn the economics of our TV deal, that advertisers see so little value in mid-major basketball that broadcast has become a pay for play system.

This article on the state of the CAA was illustrative of why it's hard to see a future in the league as it stands...
https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/a-confer...oads-where

Some choice quotes...

Quote:Perhaps the straw that broke the camel’s back was the vote to postpone the fall athletics season. Multiple sources within the league told Extra Points that the CAA’s football-only affiliate membership voted to postpone the fall season before the league’s full membership had a chance to make a decision. That led to hurt feelings and damaged relationships throughout league, relationships that multiple sources told Extra Points were already strained.

Quote:As one athletic official at a CAA school put it, the league’s athletic directors just plain don’t like each other very much. Part of that tension stems from the league’s identity problem.

As one industry source explained to me, “If an AD or president was still with the league back in the early 2010s, when the CAA was a premier basketball destination, they might still view the league at that level, whereas somebody who entered the league in 2017, when it clearly isn’t, is going to view the league’s standing a bit differently.”

So it's hard to see the league existing in its current form, and it's clear someone thinks football/non-football is the split, or at least a split. (Obviously.)

But if the basketball schools stuck together it's hard to see a core of
Charleston
Drexel
Hofstra
Northeastern
UNC Wilmington
being an attractive destination for new members that would significantly improve the level of competition.

I have no idea about the state of FCS football conferences, and how desirable WM, UD, TU, JMU, Elon and COC are for being poached or poaching other schools to create a new FCS-centric conference.

I do expect the usual deficit of leadership and passive acceptance of whatever may come, up to and including the implosion of the entire NCAA system when the "pay the players" movement finally boils over.

I don't see anything changing in the CAA for quite a while now. The logistics of breaking up or forming new conferences is just way too complicated, and I don't see how it can happen. The CAA is a really strong FCS conference. I guess maybe the football schools leave and form their own conference? But they would have to leave the CAA. They can't kick out current member schools.

I also don't see the obsession with the Atlantic 10. Maybe it was attractive 10 years ago, but not now. I'm not sure why Drexel would want to double it's budget to compete with 2 other Philadelphia schools in the same 15 team conference that only gets 1-2 bids. Think the CAA schools have nothing in common? Other than no football, the A10 schools really have nothing in common, and a terrible geographic footprint. Has the A10 worked out for La Salle? They were a dominant mid-major powerhouse until 1992. They joined the A10 25 years ago, and never won the conference. They had that 1 lightning in a bottle trip to the Sweet 16, but have mostly been a non-factor in college basketball for a quarter century. Drexel has had 4 times as many NCAA appearances and 7-8 more postseason appearance than LaSalle since 1993. If Drexel moves to the A10, I think they become another La Salle or Fordham. We're just not in position to compete at that level.

(03-15-2021 03:15 PM)J.B. Wrote:  I don't see anything changing in the CAA for quite a while now. The logistics of breaking up or forming new conferences is just way too complicated, and I don't see how it can happen. The CAA is a really strong FCS conference. I guess maybe the football schools leave and form their own conference? But they would have to leave the CAA. They can't kick out current member schools.

I also don't see the obsession with the Atlantic 10. Maybe it was attractive 10 years ago, but not now. I'm not sure why Drexel would want to double it's budget to compete with 2 other Philadelphia schools in the same 15 team conference that only gets 1-2 bids. Think the CAA schools have nothing in common? Other than no football, the A10 schools really have nothing in common, and a terrible geographic footprint. Has the A10 worked out for La Salle? They were a dominant mid-major powerhouse until 1992. They joined the A10 25 years ago, and never won the conference. They had that 1 lightning in a bottle trip to the Sweet 16, but have mostly been a non-factor in college basketball for a quarter century. Drexel has had 4 times as many NCAA appearances and 7-8 more postseason appearance than LaSalle since 1993. If Drexel moves to the A10, I think they become another La Salle or Fordham. We're just not in position to compete at that level.

Say what you will then about the indignity of being 2-bid league, the original question was how to improve on being a 16 seed in a 1-bid league. You have to admit it's an improvement. The drive to Dayton is shorter than the drive to Charleston. Saint Louis is a haul, but with increased budget comes money for airfare.

Has the A10 worked out for LaSalle? I don't know the thinking behind their athletics investment, but I know if they had been able to take advantage of all the higher seeds falling out of their way in the A10 tournament and won the title, they wouldn't be a 16 seed. Their conference found a way to get games played.

If we did join a higher profile conference I don't think we'd turn into La Salle. They have a vastly different university profile. We're nonsectarian and have 5x the students and 10x the endowment.
Personally, I'd rather be a middling team in a power conference than a middling team in a weak conference. There's higher upside.

(03-15-2021 03:15 PM)J.B. Wrote:  I don't see anything changing in the CAA for quite a while now. The logistics of breaking up or forming new conferences is just way too complicated, and I don't see how it can happen.

The Great West did it. Didn't work out well in the end, but that was a geographic profile that made zero sense.

Of course there are ways around it, but I seem to recall reading after the Virginia schools bailed out that there's now a more significant financial hit for a school to leave the conference.

(03-15-2021 03:51 PM)relaxing Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 03:15 PM)J.B. Wrote:  I don't see anything changing in the CAA for quite a while now. The logistics of breaking up or forming new conferences is just way too complicated, and I don't see how it can happen.

The Great West did it. Didn't work out well in the end, but that was a geographic profile that made zero sense.

Don't look too much into the 16 seed. The CAA is not a 16 seed conference. You're starting to sound like bmf, only looking at the negatives and running with them. There were fluky scenarios that got them there. Drexel had 12 games cancelled including games against Penn State and Siena. They lost 8 home games. They lost 6 games against the bottom 3 seeds, games that good teams rack up wins against. When they did play, they were a little out of sync, since they didn't have any game rhythm. I insist that in a regular season, this is a 20+ win team, they would not have finished 6th if they won the CAA tournament, would not have been a 16 seed.

The new NET ranking, which typically does not favor mid-majors very well, still has them ranked in the top 38% of all of college basketball. The CAA was ranked 16th in the NET out of 31. So from a pure basketball standpoint, there are far worse places to be than the CAA.

Drexel is a mid-major program, and just doesn't have the resources or fanbase to be attractive to the Atlantic 10. We do have major changes on the way with a new AD, who I expect to be a marketing/promotions type hire, not a psychology professor. We'll get a better idea in the next year or so as to what direction this program is headed and where the CAA is headed. My gut feeling is that nothing will change, CAA staying put as it is for quite a while and Drexel will continue to be a part of it.

(03-15-2021 04:39 PM)J.B. Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 03:51 PM)relaxing Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 03:15 PM)J.B. Wrote:  I don't see anything changing in the CAA for quite a while now. The logistics of breaking up or forming new conferences is just way too complicated, and I don't see how it can happen.

The Great West did it. Didn't work out well in the end, but that was a geographic profile that made zero sense.

Don't look too much into the 16 seed. The CAA is not a 16 seed conference. You're starting to sound like bmf, only looking at the negatives and running with them.

You're right, and I hate it.
Here's the bright side: no matter what, from now on we have 2021 in our list of NCAA appearances. And I'm so ******* pumped about that.

As for the rest... I'm sorry, I just see excuses. All the other conferences managed to get a real schedule in. There's a real issue here, which is that the CAA is dysfunctional, and it hurt us this year badly.

It's not that we don't have resources, we don't allocate resources. It's not 1996 anymore (or wherever the "low point" of university operations was before Taki came in.) The university has $1.2 billion in assets and revenue of $928 million against $888 million in expenses (a $40mil surplus for those counting.) Obviously most of that is wrapped up in the medical enterprise but the point is we're not some tiny liberal arts college, always teetering on the bring of failure. There are many, many basketball operations out there that achieve far more than we do with far less.

(03-15-2021 04:58 PM)relaxing Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 04:39 PM)J.B. Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 03:51 PM)relaxing Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 03:15 PM)J.B. Wrote:  I don't see anything changing in the CAA for quite a while now. The logistics of breaking up or forming new conferences is just way too complicated, and I don't see how it can happen.

The Great West did it. Didn't work out well in the end, but that was a geographic profile that made zero sense.

Don't look too much into the 16 seed. The CAA is not a 16 seed conference. You're starting to sound like bmf, only looking at the negatives and running with them.

You're right, and I hate it.
Here's the bright side: no matter what, from now on we have 2021 in our list of NCAA appearances. And I'm so ******* pumped about that.

As for the rest... I'm sorry, I just see excuses. All the other conferences managed to get a real schedule in. There's a real issue here, which is that the CAA is dysfunctional, and it hurt us this year badly.

It's not that we don't have resources, we don't allocate resources. It's not 1996 anymore (or wherever the "low point" of university operations was before Taki came in.) The university has $1.2 billion in assets and revenue of $928 million against $888 million in expenses (a $40mil surplus for those counting.) Obviously most of that is wrapped up in the medical enterprise but the point is we're not some tiny liberal arts college, always teetering on the bring of failure. There are many, many basketball operations out there that achieve far more than we do with far less.

I try not to debate things that I know nothing about so I'm not going to say anything about Drexel's financial situation. What I do know is that Drexel's fanbase is god awful. We have a lot of potential fans out there, but they're not attending basketball games, not even on weekends. That's what makes Drexel so unattractive to higher level conferences, since its the fans that drive the TV contracts and advertising revenue. The CAA let Drexel in because of the exposure that we'd bring to the conference through the major Philadelphia media market. The Atlantic 10 already has that so they would want more. Growing the fan base will be a major test for the new AD and hopefully it's a major point of emphasis for him/her.

(03-15-2021 06:50 AM)hiroshimacarp Wrote:  we were talking in the other thread about what our seed says about the caa. it says everything to me. the question is...how does this get fixed?

i feel like the caa has done a great job of assembling programs that are in similar positions...and not good positions. they're in close proximity to more prominent programs who take the attention. not in particularly good proximity to each other. some of them have facilities that you'd see at bigger schools with good athletics from top to bottom (think of delaware and towson). there's an effort to be really good...but it's just not happening.

the shortest term solution would be having at least one flagship program the fans and media know and respect. it would also give a benchmark everyone in the conference can gun for. obviously i hope that's a role we can play.

scheduling tougher games is fine as long as we win some of them. i'm not sure the conference is positioned for that yet. people complain about flo because it doesn't capture people who are wandering through the channels. i have flo, easily could have wandered around to other caa games, and had no interest doing it. the games just aren't interesting.

i think the league is fundamentally flawed because of who's in it and the geography. it's awkward programs who have the appearances of solid programs on the outside. never judge a book by its cover. many of them have no ties to each other whatsoever so it's not interesting when they play each other. this is a longer term program that almost a full rebuild of the conference can deal with.

how they handled covid is obviously another issue. the caa was essentially off the map this year.

The pandemic was an opportunity for the less prominent mid-majors to go to the NCAA and ask for flexibility on reorganizing along more logical geographic lines and autobids. Whether due to fear or a dearth of leadership, a good crisis went to waste.

If next season we arent selling out games at the DAC, then we have a real internal problem. On the heels of the NIT run going into Elegar's senior year ('07-'08) fans were amped. Midnight madness was a hot ticket event, games sold out. That was with the NIT. We made the damn NCAA this time. We have an opportunity to grow that base 10 fold overnight, again. Hopefully this time we can sustain it beyond 5 years

(03-16-2021 06:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  If next season we arent selling out games at the DAC, then we have a real internal problem. On the heels of the NIT run going into Elegar's senior year ('07-'08) fans were amped. Midnight madness was a hot ticket event, games sold out. That was with the NIT. We made the damn NCAA this time. We have an opportunity to grow that base 10 fold overnight, again. Hopefully this time we can sustain it beyond 5 years

Yes!

(03-16-2021 06:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  If next season we arent selling out games at the DAC, then we have a real internal problem. On the heels of the NIT run going into Elegar's senior year ('07-'08) fans were amped. Midnight madness was a hot ticket event, games sold out. That was with the NIT. We made the damn NCAA this time. We have an opportunity to grow that base 10 fold overnight, again. Hopefully this time we can sustain it beyond 5 years

Absolutely. Here's some major points of emphasis that the new AD should be looking into immediately upon hire.

1. Promoting and increasing the size of the DAC Pack from 12-20 diehards to hundreds who want to have fun at basketball games. Offer worthwhile incentives to students who show up on a regular basis. Make sure that the student section is full every game when school is in session.

2. Major season ticket drive. Information should be sent out to ALL alumni. You never know who you might pull in. Make it difficult to get a ticket on gameday because there are so many season ticket holders. Offer a one time discounted season ticket to everyone who has graduated within the past 5 years.

3. Do a much better job to promote youth groups and families to attend to fill up the unsold seats. There should be a national anthem singer or kids halftime entertainment event at every game. That's how you get people into the DAC who would not normally attend.

4. Going to a Drexel game has the feel of a high school or Division III game. Find the money and get video boards into the DAC and improve the gameday experience. Work with the folks at Temple. They've figured out how modernize the gameday experience. I'm sure they'll be willing to lend a hand.

For #4, the department is seeking donors to fund video boards, lighting, etc. They do know what needs to be done. I don’t envy the job of the fundraising people.

i sent some money after we won. not a lot...but i said for years i would donate if we finally came through. i would imagine there were some others like me who were waiting to see some proof that an investment might be returned. maybe we'll get season tickets next year and i'll give something associated to that like we do with penn state football.

we are unlucky with missing out on opportunities for pep rallies, selection show parties, and other things that could have been planned around the tournament. i threw out the idea for rush the court night as at least one way to get mileage out of this. it would be cool to have some type of event for season ticket holders at least with the teams. maybe they cut down the dac nets while we watch from the stands.

we also missed out on any sort of build up to the tournament. i don't know about anybody else...but this whole thing came up out of nowhere. i'm thrilled about it and compared it to how the eagles finally won. there were no big home games we had to win leading up to the tournament that built fan support and momentum. we couldn't get butts in the seats to experience the atmosphere of our home games when our teams are competitive. it all just kind of hit at once with a championship.

we've had the discussions about marketing here before. they finally have something to work with...just like the dac pack leadership with getting kids out to games. let's hope we take advantage.