(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

(03-17-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 09:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 04:23 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  My feeling is, if ESPN wants to keep him, fine. But the P12N should let him go. Part of the revamping of the P12N is a focus on the product on the football field and the basketball court, the one in front of fans. They need to build the brand as a serious one, competing at the highest level. There is no question they have their share of players who are NBA bound, so any building up of the brand has to start with that.

Larry Scott had no clue what he was doing. Walton is the sort of entertainment over substance analyst that personifies the failures of the P12N. Nostalgia is fine for old people, but the business is about 15-40 year old demographic, always is. And a conference network is not trying to be a novelty act. When the P12N reboots as part of the next media deal --yes schools will be giving up some or most of their equity stake to get a real media partner (next commissioner's first job is to get the P12 back in the real world)-- they will need to have a look that puts the sports first, promotes the players on the court and the teams out their this year. I don't see how Walton's bizarro world fits in that scheme.

I'm happy some of you are entertained by him. But that is because you do not care to know the in depth of Zaire Williams, Chris Duarte, Josh Christopher, Benedict Mathurin among others whose names will be called in the coming NBA draft. You don't know much about the Oregon Duck's winning streak or why it has happened from Walton. He shuns analytics, and has said so on air when asked about a team's NET or what they have to do to get in (so much for doing his homework). In short he never sets the table like a proper analyst.

My personal dislike is completely secondary to his extremely poor job performance. Everyone who says he's OK, speaks only of his comedy act as offsetting. That might make sense as a studio host or the odd ball sideline report, but not for the voice constantly on air during the game. P12N ratings are pretty dreadful, and he is a big part of that. He has to go.

I'm likely a strong example of the type older fan who doesn't care about the hard-core stuff you reference. For example, I'm not a member of a fantasy league. Sports is not in my top three or four hobbies/interests. I'm as interested in college campuses and how they interact with their respective communities as I am in college sports specifically. I like that former LSU men's hoops coach Dale Brown was a fan of art museums. I was always fascinated by the academic musings of Dr. Harry Edwards, who fused his thoughts on sports with culture.

So your point is probably very legit. But I do think it's important that college sports (and pro sports for that matter) offer a bit of "odd-ballity" to fans like me. What you're talking about already exists in massive doses in college and pro sports. What I want is that "fun and different 5 percent."

Normal people make society function. Abnormal people make society interesting.

Abnormal must be defined Bill. Dahmer, Ramirez, Manson, Gacy, Bundy, Toole, Gein, Speck, Malvo and Chapman were not interesting people, unless you are as perverse as Truman Capote. I think you meant to say quirky people can be interesting, not abnormal ones.

You may have just answered the question as to why Mr. Dazzle has not had positive responses over the years when he has told the ladies he is "abnormal" — thinking that could win him favor with the lasses. They thought I am a serial killer or some other type social deviant.

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

Agree fully. I was a fan of the late and legendary Al McGuire. He did an outstanding job as a coach and as a broadcaster. Seemed like a good man, too.

(03-18-2021 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

Agree fully. I was a fan of the late and legendary Al McGuire. He did an outstanding job as a coach and as a broadcaster. Seemed like a good man, too.

The Billy Packer - Al McGuire broadcasting team of the late 70s and early 80s remains the best ever, IMO.

(03-18-2021 09:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

Agree fully. I was a fan of the late and legendary Al McGuire. He did an outstanding job as a coach and as a broadcaster. Seemed like a good man, too.

The Billy Packer - Al McGuire broadcasting team of the late 70s and early 80s remains the best ever, IMO.

Not if you’re a Carolina fan.

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Absolutely disagree. Dick Vitale is a legend and is a walking history book of college basketball. He gets carried away and talks about his top 5 Diaper Dandies etc., but being a fan of the sport it’s relevant. He was hired to talk college basketball, and nobody is a better ambassador of the game in its purest form. He genuinely breathes college basketball.

I don’t even need to slag Bill Walton because he’s not even in the same galaxy as far as sports commentators are concerned. In fact, when they called a game together it was embarrassing. Walton had to be the center of attention—not the actual event—and Vitale just laid back like “what the hell is wrong with this guy?”

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

I love Dick Vitale, and especially did during his prime. But I agree that his schtick got old. I watched him during last week's Alabama-LSU game call someone a "three-S" man, and I thought: "just no". Shaq was a "three-S" man in 1991. There are no "three-S" men today. (Three-S: Super, Scintillating, Spectacular...iirc)

But, Dick has earned the right to go out on his own terms. ESPN is doing with him like they're doing with Lee Corso: let them keep working until they drop. ESPN would never be able to let either one of them go due to lifetime contributions to the network.

I don't like watching these guys get old on camera.

(03-18-2021 09:24 AM)johnintx Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

I love Dick Vitale, and especially did during his prime. But I agree that his schtick got old. I watched him during last week's Alabama-LSU game call someone a "three-S" man, and I thought: "just no". Shaq was a "three-S" man in 1991. There are no "three-S" men today. (Three-S: Super, Scintillating, Spectacular...iirc)

But, Dick has earned the right to go out on his own terms. ESPN is doing with him like they're doing with Lee Corso: let them keep working until they drop. ESPN would never be able to let either one of them go due to lifetime contributions to the network.

I don't like watching these guys get old on camera.

College basketball changes, but Dick Vitale doesn’t. Keeps the game consistent and familiar for a lot of fans.

By the way, it’s “sensational”. Ha!

When North Carolina fans praise a pro-Duke Dick Vitale, you know he's good.

You have to be a Pac-12 fan to like Walton.

ESPN long ago decided their abbreviation no longer stood for Entertainment and Sports Programming Network. But, the guys in Bristol know that the E still means something.

People like Bill Walton and Dick Vitale still provide entertainment value. As long as the ratings are good and people like us are talking about them, they provide value to the network.

(03-18-2021 09:24 AM)johnintx Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

I love Dick Vitale, and especially did during his prime. But I agree that his schtick got old. I watched him during last week's Alabama-LSU game call someone a "three-S" man, and I thought: "just no". Shaq was a "three-S" man in 1991. There are no "three-S" men today. (Three-S: Super, Scintillating, Spectacular...iirc)

But, Dick has earned the right to go out on his own terms. ESPN is doing with him like they're doing with Lee Corso: let them keep working until they drop. ESPN would never be able to let either one of them go due to lifetime contributions to the network.

I don't like watching these guys get old on camera.

I thought of the Corso comparison as well, but IMO, ESPN is handling Corso better. They have clearly cut back on his work load and participation, he makes token appearances now, which is sad, but appropriate given his current situation.

Unfortunately, I do not perceive that ESPN has really cut back that much on Vitale. As far as I can tell, he is getting pretty much the same assignments he has always had, and it is wearing out.

(03-18-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Unfortunately, I do not perceive that ESPN has really cut back that much on Vitale. As far as I can tell, he is getting pretty much the same assignments he has always had, and it is wearing out.

After watching him work remotely, I wonder if he'll travel again after Covid restrictions are lifted. He trended on Twitter at the end of the Tennessee-Alabama game because he got excited when he thought Tennessee hit a game-tying three, when it was really an airball. In a normal broadcast, even if he didn't see the shot miss, he would have been able to pick up on the reaction of the crowd around him. Calling the game at home on a monitor, he got excited for nothing. Even with that miss, I could see ESPN keeping an 80-something-year-old man off the road.

Of course, the remote broadcasts may remain with us, even after restrictions go away. ESPN was already doing some remote broadcasts, but this year the vast majority of games were broadcast from home or an ESPN studio.

(03-18-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 09:24 AM)johnintx Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

I love Dick Vitale, and especially did during his prime. But I agree that his schtick got old. I watched him during last week's Alabama-LSU game call someone a "three-S" man, and I thought: "just no". Shaq was a "three-S" man in 1991. There are no "three-S" men today. (Three-S: Super, Scintillating, Spectacular...iirc)

But, Dick has earned the right to go out on his own terms. ESPN is doing with him like they're doing with Lee Corso: let them keep working until they drop. ESPN would never be able to let either one of them go due to lifetime contributions to the network.

I don't like watching these guys get old on camera.

I thought of the Corso comparison as well, but IMO, ESPN is handling Corso better. They have clearly cut back on his work load and participation, he makes token appearances now, which is sad, but appropriate given his current situation.

Unfortunately, I do not perceive that ESPN has really cut back that much on Vitale. As far as I can tell, he is getting pretty much the same assignments he has always had, and it is wearing out.

I'm pretty sure Vitale used to be ESPN's #1 analyst for years before they recently upgraded Jay Bilas.

Vitale was #1 until about 4 years ago.

(03-18-2021 09:22 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Absolutely disagree. Dick Vitale is a legend and is a walking history book of college basketball. He gets carried away and talks about his top 5 Diaper Dandies etc., but being a fan of the sport it’s relevant. He was hired to talk college basketball, and nobody is a better ambassador of the game in its purest form. He genuinely breathes college basketball.

I don’t even need to slag Bill Walton because he’s not even in the same galaxy as far as sports commentators are concerned. In fact, when they called a game together it was embarrassing. Walton had to be the center of attention—not the actual event—and Vitale just laid back like “what the hell is wrong with this guy?”

There is no doubt Dick is a legend and has been hugely successful in his field. He is relevant and Bill Walton is ... nowhere near as relevant.

But that's not my point. I'm noting the concept of "distinctive." Dick takes a mainstream and general approach to his craft, attracting the maximum number of fans and attention. He is essentially the "Beyonce of college basketball broadcasters."

Bill Walton is, in contrast, non-mainstream and unusual. He doesn't care if viewers enjoy his style. He's doing it "his way." Walton is "the Dropkick Murphys of college basketball broadcasters."

And I think you know by know by now that Bill Dazzle prefers the music and approach of The Dropkick Murphys to that of Beyonce.

(03-18-2021 09:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Back in the 1980s, Vitale brought a new level of "vitality" to the announcing position. He really was a breathe of fresh air, and arguably almost as good as the gold standard of that time for a color man, Al McGuire.

But yes, his schtick got old a long time ago, and he has experienced a natural decline due to aging.

Agree fully. I was a fan of the late and legendary Al McGuire. He did an outstanding job as a coach and as a broadcaster. Seemed like a good man, too.

The Billy Packer - Al McGuire broadcasting team of the late 70s and early 80s remains the best ever, IMO.

I would probably agree, QV.

(03-18-2021 12:16 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 09:22 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The difference between Bill Walton and Dick Vitale ... Bill offers lots of history, fun tidbits, clever zingers, current events, music and food notes, "lesser sports," etc. Dickie just blabs on about men's college hoops. Bill is distinctive. Dick is mainstream.

Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Absolutely disagree. Dick Vitale is a legend and is a walking history book of college basketball. He gets carried away and talks about his top 5 Diaper Dandies etc., but being a fan of the sport it’s relevant. He was hired to talk college basketball, and nobody is a better ambassador of the game in its purest form. He genuinely breathes college basketball.

I don’t even need to slag Bill Walton because he’s not even in the same galaxy as far as sports commentators are concerned. In fact, when they called a game together it was embarrassing. Walton had to be the center of attention—not the actual event—and Vitale just laid back like “what the hell is wrong with this guy?”

There is no doubt Dick is a legend and has been hugely successful in his field. He is relevant and Bill Walton is ... nowhere near as relevant.

But that's not my point. I'm noting the concept of "distinctive." Dick takes a mainstream and general approach to his craft, attracting the maximum number of fans and attention. He is essentially the "Beyonce of college basketball broadcasters."

Bill Walton is, in contrast, non-mainstream and unusual. He doesn't care if viewers enjoy his style. He's doing it "his way." Walton is "the Dropkick Murphys of college basketball broadcasters."

And I think you know by know by now that Bill Dazzle prefers the music and approach of The Dropkick Murphys to that of Beyonce.

So Bill Walton is in the Dennis Miller/Rush Limbaugh category of sports announcers. Got it.

(03-18-2021 02:18 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 12:16 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 09:22 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:34 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dick Vitale’s mission in life is to help kids with cancer. I think that’s pretty distinctive.

Agree fully. I will also note I hugely respect Dick for fashioning a long and influential career in sport broadcasting.

However, in terms of broadcasting specifically, Bill is distinctive and Dick is not (unless we consider his frequent and tired use of "baby" as distinctive).

Absolutely disagree. Dick Vitale is a legend and is a walking history book of college basketball. He gets carried away and talks about his top 5 Diaper Dandies etc., but being a fan of the sport it’s relevant. He was hired to talk college basketball, and nobody is a better ambassador of the game in its purest form. He genuinely breathes college basketball.

I don’t even need to slag Bill Walton because he’s not even in the same galaxy as far as sports commentators are concerned. In fact, when they called a game together it was embarrassing. Walton had to be the center of attention—not the actual event—and Vitale just laid back like “what the hell is wrong with this guy?”

There is no doubt Dick is a legend and has been hugely successful in his field. He is relevant and Bill Walton is ... nowhere near as relevant.

But that's not my point. I'm noting the concept of "distinctive." Dick takes a mainstream and general approach to his craft, attracting the maximum number of fans and attention. He is essentially the "Beyonce of college basketball broadcasters."

Bill Walton is, in contrast, non-mainstream and unusual. He doesn't care if viewers enjoy his style. He's doing it "his way." Walton is "the Dropkick Murphys of college basketball broadcasters."

And I think you know by know by now that Bill Dazzle prefers the music and approach of The Dropkick Murphys to that of Beyonce.

So Bill Walton is in the Dennis Miller/Rush Limbaugh category of sports announcers. Got it.

To some extent ... yes.

I actually kind of liked Miller's sportscasting. Limbaugh's ... not at all.