(08-05-2020 12:33 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 01:50 AM)pono Wrote:  

(08-04-2020 08:53 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(08-04-2020 07:25 PM)pono Wrote:  

(08-04-2020 07:38 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  For many of them, the value they place on a college
education is minimal.

And you base this on what? That’s a very cynical and critical perspective. Their demands clearly include educational support and graduation goals. Where does your assumption that these student athletes don’t value education come from?

The value of their education almost is almost never mentioned by them when talking about pay for play.
Majority of their argument is they are being victimized by the system. Now the Universities need
to hold up their end of the bargain- stipends, housing,
meal plans, books/supplies etc., and realistic academic demands and support. Hourly pay as an University employee forget it. Had kids in Performing
Arts that made many demands outside of regular academic rigors.

Have you read the statement? There are 17 demands. 1 involves being paid. 3 involve protecting non-revenue sports from cuts, something no one else has stood up for in an organized way. Several others involve medical insurance and care. Several involve racial equality. 1 involves ability to transfer without sanction in cases of abuse, something that is a very real issue (Baylor, MSU, Iowa...) that the NCAA continues to dodge.

Make things simple. Have the NFL and NBA do what MLB and the NHL have done for years - have a minor league system for recruits coming out of high school. They can afford it. Those that do not see college as being right for them, but want to go after a pro career in sports, this will fit them well. They get paid, enroll in health care offered by the NFL team they get drafted by, adhere to any racial inequality programs that are ongoing, adhere to curfews, etc. etc. Let them bargain alongside the unions in those leagues. Any negotiations that are done ala carte will never be enough at the NCAA level.

Of course this will never happen - but maybe it should. There is almost no way the NFL/NBA would ever agree to start up a minor league for their prime feeder of talent. The only way that happens is if the NCAA found some way to leverage the member schools into cutting football and basketball - and that just ain't going to happen as long as the NCAA has their mitts in the cookie jar. Unless it gets too painful financially to continue on - and that is likely to happen at every school below the Power 5 conference schools. Even within those conferences, many schools will struggle with the amount of cash they will continue to bleed, although going forward it will be as though they are also prescribed blood thinners to bleed faster.

I haven't seen all of the demands. I suspect I would agree with most of them. The issue always comes down to - how do you pay for them? This is not a new problem. There are very few new problems, just problems that get more attention and priorities assigned to them.

These are college students who want to remain college students and play college sports. The students are simply getting more involved to influence the rules and guidelines that govern their participation. They are saying we have a voice and we want to be part of the process. The obvious connection to racial and social inequality is that the NCAA administration, school administration, and head coaches are disproportionately older and whiter and the athletes are (obviously) younger and more often Black. The athletes are saying we deserve a stronger voice and we are going to make sure we use it in an informed and unified manner. Yeah, for P5 football there's a financial component. Mostly, it boils down to 1) a small amount of top players at elite schools that are basically football businesses saying we want to play college ball yet get a piece of that income we create and 2) those elite players looking out for their teammates who aren't going pro to say they also deserve some of the benefits.

(08-05-2020 03:10 PM)pono Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 12:33 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 01:50 AM)pono Wrote:  

(08-04-2020 08:53 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(08-04-2020 07:25 PM)pono Wrote:  And you base this on what? That’s a very cynical and critical perspective. Their demands clearly include educational support and graduation goals. Where does your assumption that these student athletes don’t value education come from?

The value of their education almost is almost never mentioned by them when talking about pay for play.
Majority of their argument is they are being victimized by the system. Now the Universities need
to hold up their end of the bargain- stipends, housing,
meal plans, books/supplies etc., and realistic academic demands and support. Hourly pay as an University employee forget it. Had kids in Performing
Arts that made many demands outside of regular academic rigors.

Have you read the statement? There are 17 demands. 1 involves being paid. 3 involve protecting non-revenue sports from cuts, something no one else has stood up for in an organized way. Several others involve medical insurance and care. Several involve racial equality. 1 involves ability to transfer without sanction in cases of abuse, something that is a very real issue (Baylor, MSU, Iowa...) that the NCAA continues to dodge.

Make things simple. Have the NFL and NBA do what MLB and the NHL have done for years - have a minor league system for recruits coming out of high school. They can afford it. Those that do not see college as being right for them, but want to go after a pro career in sports, this will fit them well. They get paid, enroll in health care offered by the NFL team they get drafted by, adhere to any racial inequality programs that are ongoing, adhere to curfews, etc. etc. Let them bargain alongside the unions in those leagues. Any negotiations that are done ala carte will never be enough at the NCAA level.

Of course this will never happen - but maybe it should. There is almost no way the NFL/NBA would ever agree to start up a minor league for their prime feeder of talent. The only way that happens is if the NCAA found some way to leverage the member schools into cutting football and basketball - and that just ain't going to happen as long as the NCAA has their mitts in the cookie jar. Unless it gets too painful financially to continue on - and that is likely to happen at every school below the Power 5 conference schools. Even within those conferences, many schools will struggle with the amount of cash they will continue to bleed, although going forward it will be as though they are also prescribed blood thinners to bleed faster.

I haven't seen all of the demands. I suspect I would agree with most of them. The issue always comes down to - how do you pay for them? This is not a new problem. There are very few new problems, just problems that get more attention and priorities assigned to them.

These are college students who want to remain college students and play college sports. The students are simply getting more involved to influence the rules and guidelines that govern their participation. They are saying we have a voice and we want to be part of the process. The obvious connection to racial and social inequality is that the NCAA administration, school administration, and head coaches are disproportionately older and whiter and the athletes are (obviously) younger and more often Black. The athletes are saying we deserve a stronger voice and we are going to make sure we use it in an informed and unified manner. Yeah, for P5 football there's a financial component. Mostly, it boils down to 1) a small amount of top players at elite schools that are basically football businesses saying we want to play college ball yet get a piece of that income we create and 2) those elite players looking out for their teammates who aren't going pro to say they also deserve some of the benefits.

To the point about how to pay for these things, they actually make some suggestions on how to do that. They clearly have not ignored the economics of this. In fact, they point to the economic disparity between coaches and administrators making millions and instead of schools making deep cuts in those salaries to deal with the pandemic, many schools are choosing to cut sports instead. Cutting sports will eliminate scholarships and thus eliminate opportunities for some athletes to get that education many have pointed out is the point of going to school in the first place. They recognize that. Meanwhile the coaches and administrators suffer little if at all in all of this and will continue to rake in small fortunes, even when they inevitably under-perform.

For folks that haven't read it, I encourage you to. IMO they lay out a thoughtful and balanced set of proposals. I don't agree with all of them, but I agree with many. This is a very interesting juxtaposition to the P5 conferences taking advantage of the pandemic to squeeze the non-chosen schools even more by cancelling games and taking more of the revenue pie for themselves. That will not help the P5 conferences argue that they can't afford to do any of these things the athletes propose.