One of the few things I believe we can agree on is that Obamacare is ine of the most divisive laws of our time.

Theory: Obamacare and HOW it was passed set the stage for the rise of Trump.

This law set the tone for the Obama administration including his "Shellacking" in the 2010 midterms and his inability to get anything else significant through Congress after the bridge was burned by Obamacare. The GOP won a Senate seat in Massachusetts in an effort to send a message that this law was no good. Romney's baffling decison to ignore Obamacare led to anger and apathy among the GOP base and the desire for someone to run who would fight against it. Trump was that person.

Had Obama and the Dems abandoned Obamacare after the Massachusetts Senate race would we have ever seen the rise of the Tea Party GOPers? Would moderate GOPers been able to maintain the dominant hold they had on the party and kept the nomination steered towards McCain/Romney types?

If you're specifically asking how Trump took over the Party, could be, yes.

I don't think it was just Obamacare.

I think it was a flurry of EOs along with Obamacare. Not to mention the administration's foreign policy. One that HRC couldn't criticize because for a spell she was part of it.

I think in the end the American people were tired of someone being in office that didn't listen to them and wasn't doing anything to help them.

It was that his administration weaponized nearly every department within the executive branch to go after those who were not part of the hive mind.

I don't think Obamacare led to Trump.

I think Obama led to Trump.

You just can't go #2 on the heads of half of the country for eight years and not expect them to do something about it. Just thank God that Trump ran in 2016.

While Obamacare may have played a part, I really think that many Americans were sick of being defeated by other countries in manufacturing. They were sick of a globalist agenda that seemed to want to destroy America, and they were sick of limp wristed, big government, lifetime politicians, from both sides of the aisle that spoke about the issues but never fixed anything.

Trump was someone who was not a DC insider, he spoke his mind (often too much), was America first, and actually spoke business sense.

I think there was public dissatisfaction with DEM leadership in both the WH and Congress.

I also think there was conservative/Republican dissatisfaction with de facto GOP RINO behavior. I think this assumption is supported by the fact that, out of a field of 17 major candidates, the last 2 viable candidates left standing were Trump and Cruz.

Of the 17 GOP Primary candidates, nobody was more detested by GOP Rinos than those two.

Trump - 1,441 pledged delegates
Cruz - 553

But self-proclaimed Republicans preferred those two over all the other candidates and rejected the following:
Marco Rubio - 166
John Kasich - 160
Ben Carson - 7
Jeb Bush - 4
Rand Paul - 2
Carly Fiorina - 1
Mike Huckabee - 1
Jim Gilmore - 0
Chris Christie - 0
Rick Santorum - 0

These folks withdrew before the primaries:
George Pataki
Lindsey Graham
Bobby Jindal
Scott Walker
Rick Perry

Yes, I know Kasich stayed until the end, but he was not a serious contender at all.

All of these are good points, but timeline wise I would argue that Obamacare could be classified as the defining moment that set the state for a Trump like figure. "Hope and Change" died quickly when Obamacare, his first major action after the 2009 election, was passed in a 100% partisan manner. That set the stage for everything else that happened after. GOPers were not going to work with him after he rammed through such a transformation change in an extremely partisan manner, blatantly buying off reluctant Senators in his own party for their votes. The GOP base wanted Romney to fight against Obamacare and he did the exact opposite. This led to the base rallying to a leader that would fight hard not just against Obamacare but against other liberal overreaches that the base was experiencing defeat after defeat.

Had Obamacare been abandoned are even a bipartisan effort I do not think a Trump like figure would have arisen as their would be no momentum for such an occurance. Obamacare was the match that started the fire that led to the explosion of Trumpianism.

For me it was Obamacare.

I'll be damned if I will go crawling to the king to see a doctor.

That is the end of freedom.

I would do a lot more than vote for Trump because of that.

It was Obama himself. He was an incompetent, arrogant, pretender propped up by the left and the media.

Regular Americans saw through it.

The republican establishment is why we have Trump. Their prior lineup was:

HW Bush
McCain
Romney
Jeb!

Republicans simply took control of their party back from the elitists, which is why some are still butthurt today. Something the cuck democrats should have done 4 years ago as well.


And the establishment couldnt handle the media. Remember when re[publicans hated the hispanics? Along came Trump, and republican senator and house members were crapping their pants thinking republicans were going to lose big in the house and senate due to the way Trump spoke about illegals. And what happened? Trump outdid Romney on the hispanic votes, and Trump was directly responsible for at least 2 senate seat wins.

Today, their are whispers in the democratic pollsters that are highly concerned about Trumps enormous support from hispanics this go around.

(06-30-2020 10:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  I don't think Obamacare led to Trump.

I think Obama led to Trump.

You just can't go #2 on the heads of half of the country for eight years and not expect them to do something about it. Just thank God that Trump ran in 2016.

I agree. It actually is all Barry’s fault.

I think those are definitely contributing factors, but Ted Cruz had been calling out his GOP colleagues since the start.

I hate linking the Washington comPost.

5 times Ted Cruz went to war with the Republican establishment

2012: Cruz vs. the Texas establishment
2013: Obamacare
2014: Immigration
2015: Planned Parenthood *
2015: The Export-Import Bank


* Quote from that battle:

Quote:"I will give President Obama and the Senate Democrats credit,” said Cruz. “They are willing to crawl over broken glass with a knife between their teeth to fight for [their] principles. Unfortunately, leadership on my side of the aisle does not demonstrate the same commitment.”

Quotes from the article:

Quote:Cruz is all too happy to wear the title of least-liked man in Washington. He argues to his growing number of supporters that he's stopping Washington from ruining their lives -- and upsetting those greedy lawmakers in the process.

Quote:But Cruz has indeed gained a lot politically. In his few short years in the Senate, Cruz has defined himself as the anti-Washington guy in Washington, which amounted to prescient timing as he runs for president largely by pitching himself as an outsider in an Republican primary that is shaping up to be very kind to outsiders.

Let's take step back. Obamacare was supposed to be Obama's shining legacy along with the Iran deal, both have proven to be about as useful as a pull rope on an ax handle.

If what Obama had promised would've been met in Obamacare, along with a functioning website, and wasn't a tax enforced by the IRS (honestly how did the IR f'n S get into health care insurance) he could've helped champion a long line of Democratic Presidents.

But it failed miserably.

It hurt more than it helped, but it was never about helping everyone.

(06-30-2020 12:17 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's take step back. Obamacare was supposed to be Obama's shining legacy along with the Iran deal, both have proven to be about as useful as a pull rope on an ax handle.

If what Obama had promised would've been met in Obamacare, along with a functioning website, and wasn't a tax enforced by the IRS (honestly how did the IR f'n S get into health care insurance) he could've helped champion a long line of Democratic Presidents.

But it failed miserably.

It hurt more than it helped, but it was never about helping everyone.

Obama was able to prance into the whitehouse at a time that, if all he did was sit on the toilet each day, he would have had his head on Rushmore by now. The economy was already rebounding back strongly. All he had to do was to sit back and take credit for something he didnt do; something he's actually quite good at. Instead he got sticky fingers and ended up turning a huge economic turnaround into a turd nugget.

I was employed with a company that got burned by his whole, strengthening the US Army Corp of Engineers initiative.

What it did was take the contracts we would normally do, split them into several contracts so small contractors could bid on them, specifically minority owned and Section 8 contractors.

Our company picked up the tab on several of those projects and finished them because that initiative bankrupted several companies.

I don't think so. I think Trump's victory was made during the campaigns. So many wacky things happened in a short time.

(06-30-2020 12:15 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  I think those are definitely contributing factors, but Ted Cruz had been calling out his GOP colleagues since the start.

I hate linking the Washington comPost.

5 times Ted Cruz went to war with the Republican establishment

2012: Cruz vs. the Texas establishment
2013: Obamacare
2014: Immigration
2015: Planned Parenthood *
2015: The Export-Import Bank


* Quote from that battle:

Quote:"I will give President Obama and the Senate Democrats credit,” said Cruz. “They are willing to crawl over broken glass with a knife between their teeth to fight for [their] principles. Unfortunately, leadership on my side of the aisle does not demonstrate the same commitment.”

Quotes from the article:

Quote:Cruz is all too happy to wear the title of least-liked man in Washington. He argues to his growing number of supporters that he's stopping Washington from ruining their lives -- and upsetting those greedy lawmakers in the process.

Quote:But Cruz has indeed gained a lot politically. In his few short years in the Senate, Cruz has defined himself as the anti-Washington guy in Washington, which amounted to prescient timing as he runs for president largely by pitching himself as an outsider in an Republican primary that is shaping up to be very kind to outsiders.

Ted Cruz got elected in 2012 as a Tea Party Senator that was very against....Obamacare

No, what led to Trump was him getting on the podium and actually addressing peoples' concerns in 2015. None of the other candidates apart from maybe Bernie made an attempt at that. He was an outsider that said "They're stacking the deck against you, let's make them play an honest hand." Obamacare was an afterthought compared to NAFTA, TPP, and mass immigration.

He, naturally, abandoned that after winning, thanks to him driving off any America Firsters apart from Stephen Miller and surrounding himself with swamp things and liberal relatives.

(06-30-2020 12:14 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  I don't think Obamacare led to Trump.

I think Obama led to Trump.

You just can't go #2 on the heads of half of the country for eight years and not expect them to do something about it. Just thank God that Trump ran in 2016.

I agree. It actually is all Barry’s fault.

What was Obama's first major legislative action as President???

Obamacare was the first time we went from Hope and Change to My Way, Deal With It.