E$PN would probably fight this tooth and nail, but let's say the SEC takes a page or two out of the Big Ten's scheduling notebook, and tweeks it just a little. Here's where I'm going: Auburn has not been happy in the SEC West Division ever since divisional play started and it's obvious that Mizzou belongs in the West not the East. I would propose a swap of Auburn for Mizzou under one condition: no more permanent crossover games in the SEC anymore except for two games: the Iron Bowl and Third Saturday (or is it Fourth Saturday now??) in October. I would be very curious if the SEC schedulers could pull it off. The Big Ten only has one permanent crossover game, the Battle for the Old, Oaken Bucket, but I am proposing two permanent crossover games to basically appease 'Bama.

I think your intent is right, DNB, but let me poke holes in it as food for thought:

1) Auburn and UT would certainly be Bama's most coveted rivals in the swap you proposed, but Bama would literally NEVER play any other SEC East teams except in a potential SEC Championship game. This idea could work if we moved to 9 conference games, but I do not see it working with our current 8 games.

2) If the swap did happen, I think the SEC would want to pivot the Iron Bowl to earlier in the season for Championship game reasons. I do not believe we have any cross-divisional match-ups during the last week of the season. Part of it is because traditional rivals are in the same division, but another reason is so that the Championship Game does not have a back-to-back week match-up of the same schools.

I am completely behind the idea of permanent cross-division rivalries being optional. For instance, let TAMU just run through the SEC East in a rotational fashion; no need to force an annual match-up that would never happen in an independent scheduling mindset.

(04-14-2020 06:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  E$PN would probably fight this tooth and nail, but let's say the SEC takes a page or two out of the Big Ten's scheduling notebook, and tweeks it just a little. Here's where I'm going: Auburn has not been happy in the SEC West Division ever since divisional play started and it's obvious that Mizzou belongs in the West not the East. I would propose a swap of Auburn for Mizzou under one condition: no more permanent crossover games in the SEC anymore except for two games: the Iron Bowl and Third Saturday (or is it Fourth Saturday now??) in October. I would be very curious if the SEC schedulers could pull it off. The Big Ten only has one permanent crossover game, the Battle for the Old, Oaken Bucket, but I am proposing two permanent crossover games to basically appease 'Bama.

I like it. I admit my bias as a TN fan though. Perhaps better though more complicated would be to move both Alabama and Auburn to the East and move Missouri and Vandy West. Then you'd only have to protect Vandy-TN.

Getting a conference championship game without divisions would probably be best. Each school gets 3 permanent annual rivals and rotates the other 10 for the rest of the 5 games.

Example: Alabama
Annual - Auburn, Tennessee, Mississippi St
Odd Years - Texas A&M, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Even Years - Arkansas, LSU, Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina

(04-14-2020 09:08 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 06:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  E$PN would probably fight this tooth and nail, but let's say the SEC takes a page or two out of the Big Ten's scheduling notebook, and tweeks it just a little. Here's where I'm going: Auburn has not been happy in the SEC West Division ever since divisional play started and it's obvious that Mizzou belongs in the West not the East. I would propose a swap of Auburn for Mizzou under one condition: no more permanent crossover games in the SEC anymore except for two games: the Iron Bowl and Third Saturday (or is it Fourth Saturday now??) in October. I would be very curious if the SEC schedulers could pull it off. The Big Ten only has one permanent crossover game, the Battle for the Old, Oaken Bucket, but I am proposing two permanent crossover games to basically appease 'Bama.

I like it. I admit my bias as a TN fan though. Perhaps better though more complicated would be to move both Alabama and Auburn to the East and move Missouri and Vandy West. Then you'd only have to protect Vandy-TN.

There you go!!! That actually solves all the potential issues bigblueblindness pointed out, which do sink my attempt at the solution while uncovering the real one. Btw, bigblueblindness, thank you!!!
Another issue I forgot about was Vandy-Ole Miss, which doesn't get near the attention of Georgia-Auburn or Tennessee-Alabama. Vandy would be very opposed to my idea and so would Ole Miss. Under your plan, soobakh, you preserve that one as well and 8 game conference schedules are still possible!!
The whole point of this exercise is that I wanted to see if there was alternative way to realign the SEC without going after Oklahoma & Texas, who truthfully, don't really belong in the SEC, IMO. Those two are exactly where they need to be, and the SEC could go another direction on realignment if the permanent crossovers could be eliminated for the most part and the underlying reasons for why the permanent crossovers were created to begin with are eliminated as well.

(04-14-2020 10:44 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Getting a conference championship game without divisions would probably be best. Each school gets 3 permanent annual rivals and rotates the other 10 for the rest of the 5 games.

Example: Alabama
Annual - Auburn, Tennessee, Mississippi St
Odd Years - Texas A&M, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Even Years - Arkansas, LSU, Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina

That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

(04-14-2020 11:18 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 10:44 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Getting a conference championship game without divisions would probably be best. Each school gets 3 permanent annual rivals and rotates the other 10 for the rest of the 5 games.

Example: Alabama
Annual - Auburn, Tennessee, Mississippi St
Odd Years - Texas A&M, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Even Years - Arkansas, LSU, Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina

That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

The easiest way to end this is to add two more schools to the West and to move Auburn and Alabama to the East. There would no longer be a need to have permanent rivals.


East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

These two divisions are very well balanced:
Iron Bowl = RRR
Ala/Tenn = A&M/LSU
Aub/Ga = Texas/A&M
Fla/Ga = LSU/Ole Miss
Ten/Fla = Texas/Ark

Such a move would really create 2 power but distinct divisions each with rich traditions and beloved rivalries.

(04-14-2020 11:33 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:18 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 10:44 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Getting a conference championship game without divisions would probably be best. Each school gets 3 permanent annual rivals and rotates the other 10 for the rest of the 5 games.

Example: Alabama
Annual - Auburn, Tennessee, Mississippi St
Odd Years - Texas A&M, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Even Years - Arkansas, LSU, Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina

That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

The easiest way to end this is to add two more schools to the West and to move Auburn and Alabama to the East. There would no longer be a need to have permanent rivals.


East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

These two divisions are very well balanced:
Iron Bowl = RRR
Ala/Tenn = A&M/LSU
Aub/Ga = Texas/A&M
Fla/Ga = LSU/Ole Miss
Ten/Fla = Texas/Ark

Such a move would really create 2 power but distinct divisions each with rich traditions and beloved rivalries.

Some rivalries would be kept, others renewed, but more would be lost. Yes, Ole Miss and Mississippi State would get lots of exposure out in Texas, but they would lose their rivalries with Alabama, Auburn, and Vandy too. Those games actually mean something to those schools, IMO. Alabama-LSU would be lost also. Even under my plan, rivalries would still be lost, but not as many. But I'm sure schedule makers and E$PN would hate it because of its complexities and not as much $$$'s to be made off of my plan.

(04-14-2020 12:47 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:33 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:18 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 10:44 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Getting a conference championship game without divisions would probably be best. Each school gets 3 permanent annual rivals and rotates the other 10 for the rest of the 5 games.

Example: Alabama
Annual - Auburn, Tennessee, Mississippi St
Odd Years - Texas A&M, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Even Years - Arkansas, LSU, Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina

That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

The easiest way to end this is to add two more schools to the West and to move Auburn and Alabama to the East. There would no longer be a need to have permanent rivals.


East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

These two divisions are very well balanced:
Iron Bowl = RRR
Ala/Tenn = A&M/LSU
Aub/Ga = Texas/A&M
Fla/Ga = LSU/Ole Miss
Ten/Fla = Texas/Ark

Such a move would really create 2 power but distinct divisions each with rich traditions and beloved rivalries.

Some rivalries would be kept, others renewed, but more would be lost. Yes, Ole Miss and Mississippi State would get lots of exposure out in Texas, but they would lose their rivalries with Alabama, Auburn, and Vandy too. Those games actually mean something to those schools, IMO. Alabama-LSU would be lost also. Even under my plan, rivalries would still be lost, but not as many. But I'm sure schedule makers and E$PN would hate it because of its complexities and not as much $$$'s to be made off of my plan.

The Egg bowl would be played. There is no more 1 sided of a rivalry than that of Miss St and Alabama and prior to the realignment of 1992 Auburn seldom played Ole Miss. So your argument isn't really that valid with the exception of 1 odd rivalry Ole Miss / Vanderbilt. L.S.U. might like to be out from under Alabama's shadow and their rivalry with the Mississippi schools is more important.

(04-14-2020 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 12:47 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:33 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:18 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 10:44 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Getting a conference championship game without divisions would probably be best. Each school gets 3 permanent annual rivals and rotates the other 10 for the rest of the 5 games.

Example: Alabama
Annual - Auburn, Tennessee, Mississippi St
Odd Years - Texas A&M, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Even Years - Arkansas, LSU, Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina

That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

The easiest way to end this is to add two more schools to the West and to move Auburn and Alabama to the East. There would no longer be a need to have permanent rivals.


East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

These two divisions are very well balanced:
Iron Bowl = RRR
Ala/Tenn = A&M/LSU
Aub/Ga = Texas/A&M
Fla/Ga = LSU/Ole Miss
Ten/Fla = Texas/Ark

Such a move would really create 2 power but distinct divisions each with rich traditions and beloved rivalries.

Some rivalries would be kept, others renewed, but more would be lost. Yes, Ole Miss and Mississippi State would get lots of exposure out in Texas, but they would lose their rivalries with Alabama, Auburn, and Vandy too. Those games actually mean something to those schools, IMO. Alabama-LSU would be lost also. Even under my plan, rivalries would still be lost, but not as many. But I'm sure schedule makers and E$PN would hate it because of its complexities and not as much $$$'s to be made off of my plan.

The Egg bowl would be played. There is no more 1 sided of a rivalry than that of Miss St and Alabama and prior to the realignment of 1992 Auburn seldom played Ole Miss. So your argument isn't really that valid with the exception of 1 odd rivalry Ole Miss / Vanderbilt. L.S.U. might like to be out from under Alabama's shadow and their rivalry with the Mississippi schools is more important.

Actually, I was referring to economic impact. Mississippi State and Ole Miss don't do much for Auburn or Alabama, but on the other way around, ( when Auburn plays @ Oxford or @ Starkville, and when Bama plays @ Starkville or Ole Miss.). I'm sure neither are day trips for Auburn fans and I would wager the same holds true when 'Bama visits Oxford. Regardless, the cities of Oxford and Starkville make $$ off the games for sure, and Mississippi State gets a nice little bump when 'Bama makes the visit, even if the result is a loss, it is still a loss to a team in Notre Dame's and Michigan's ballpark. The same actually holds true for UGa and Tech. We don't get many Techs @ Athens, but Tech makes some good coin when we play @ Dooley-Sanford Stadium West. .
I wasn't referring to the Egg Bowl at all.

(04-14-2020 11:34 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 12:47 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:33 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:18 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

The easiest way to end this is to add two more schools to the West and to move Auburn and Alabama to the East. There would no longer be a need to have permanent rivals.


East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

These two divisions are very well balanced:
Iron Bowl = RRR
Ala/Tenn = A&M/LSU
Aub/Ga = Texas/A&M
Fla/Ga = LSU/Ole Miss
Ten/Fla = Texas/Ark

Such a move would really create 2 power but distinct divisions each with rich traditions and beloved rivalries.

Some rivalries would be kept, others renewed, but more would be lost. Yes, Ole Miss and Mississippi State would get lots of exposure out in Texas, but they would lose their rivalries with Alabama, Auburn, and Vandy too. Those games actually mean something to those schools, IMO. Alabama-LSU would be lost also. Even under my plan, rivalries would still be lost, but not as many. But I'm sure schedule makers and E$PN would hate it because of its complexities and not as much $$$'s to be made off of my plan.

The Egg bowl would be played. There is no more 1 sided of a rivalry than that of Miss St and Alabama and prior to the realignment of 1992 Auburn seldom played Ole Miss. So your argument isn't really that valid with the exception of 1 odd rivalry Ole Miss / Vanderbilt. L.S.U. might like to be out from under Alabama's shadow and their rivalry with the Mississippi schools is more important.

Actually, I was referring to economic impact. Mississippi State and Ole Miss don't do much for Auburn or Alabama, but on the other way around, ( when Auburn plays @ Oxford or @ Starkville, and when Bama plays @ Starkville or Ole Miss.). I'm sure neither are day trips for Auburn fans and I would wager the same holds true when 'Bama visits Oxford. Regardless, the cities of Oxford and Starkville make $$ off the games for sure, and Mississippi State gets a nice little bump when 'Bama makes the visit, even if the result is a loss, it is still a loss to a team in Notre Dame's and Michigan's ballpark. The same actually holds true for UGa and Tech. We don't get many Techs @ Athens, but Tech makes some good coin when we play @ Dooley-Sanford Stadium West. .
I wasn't referring to the Egg Bowl at all.

You have a point economically, but the conference games will rotate through so you'll get more people who show up at the Grove simply because they haven't been every year.

As to Georgia vs Georgia Tech I just don't see the incentive for Georgia to keep this up beyond the fact that the State Legislature wants it to prop up Tech. Georgia would be money ahead playing a better ACC school every now and then and moving that game to earlier in the season so they don't risk injury before the CCG by playing a cut blocking Tech squad.

But face it, when the SEC's annual media revenue is near 70 million Ole Miss, Missouri, Miss State, Vandy and Kentucky will just be danged glad they get their cut because that dwarfs what they get on gate.

(04-14-2020 11:34 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 12:47 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:33 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2020 11:18 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That is another way, and I had considered it too, but there is a problem: annual games like Georgia-Tennessee would be rotating affairs, and I really wouldn't want that.

The easiest way to end this is to add two more schools to the West and to move Auburn and Alabama to the East. There would no longer be a need to have permanent rivals.


East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

These two divisions are very well balanced:
Iron Bowl = RRR
Ala/Tenn = A&M/LSU
Aub/Ga = Texas/A&M
Fla/Ga = LSU/Ole Miss
Ten/Fla = Texas/Ark

Such a move would really create 2 power but distinct divisions each with rich traditions and beloved rivalries.

Some rivalries would be kept, others renewed, but more would be lost. Yes, Ole Miss and Mississippi State would get lots of exposure out in Texas, but they would lose their rivalries with Alabama, Auburn, and Vandy too. Those games actually mean something to those schools, IMO. Alabama-LSU would be lost also. Even under my plan, rivalries would still be lost, but not as many. But I'm sure schedule makers and E$PN would hate it because of its complexities and not as much $$$'s to be made off of my plan.

The Egg bowl would be played. There is no more 1 sided of a rivalry than that of Miss St and Alabama and prior to the realignment of 1992 Auburn seldom played Ole Miss. So your argument isn't really that valid with the exception of 1 odd rivalry Ole Miss / Vanderbilt. L.S.U. might like to be out from under Alabama's shadow and their rivalry with the Mississippi schools is more important.

Actually, I was referring to economic impact. Mississippi State and Ole Miss don't do much for Auburn or Alabama, but on the other way around, ( when Auburn plays @ Oxford or @ Starkville, and when Bama plays @ Starkville or Ole Miss.). I'm sure neither are day trips for Auburn fans and I would wager the same holds true when 'Bama visits Oxford. Regardless, the cities of Oxford and Starkville make $$ off the games for sure, and Mississippi State gets a nice little bump when 'Bama makes the visit, even if the result is a loss, it is still a loss to a team in Notre Dame's and Michigan's ballpark. The same actually holds true for UGa and Tech. We don't get many Techs @ Athens, but Tech makes some good coin when we play @ Dooley-Sanford Stadium West. .
I wasn't referring to the Egg Bowl at all.

Oxford and Tuscaloosa really aren't that far apart. It can be a day trip although it depends on where the visiting fans are coming from.

Nonetheless, Oxford and Starkville are so small that visiting fans probably aren't staying in local hotels anyway because there aren't near enough to go around. In fact, I've heard of people staying in Tuscaloosa when attending games in Starkville...this would be weekends where State is home and Alabama is on the road, that sort of thing. I imagine the vast majority of that space in those towns is snapped up by home team fans that may be travelling. Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Athens, and probably others, while all being larger than Oxford and Starkville, are all towns that depend on hotel space from other areas in order to house visiting fans.

The restaurants and whatnot would benefit, but they'll benefit no matter who's in town...especially if those fans are coming from greater distances. If Alabama isn't coming around then other schools with good travelling fan bases will be in their stead so I doubt there's any real difference.

I would hate to quit playing Mississippi State because they're literally only 90 miles away. No two teams in the conference are closer than that. With that said, losing LSU would be a bigger dent on the schedule. I'd prefer some sort of system that didn't necessarily confine everyone to large divisions. Not every game that could be played is of the utmost importance, but there are a ton of match-ups that either don't need to go away or some that need to be played more often.